87 replies to this topic

[Mchawkeye]

Friendly fire should be on and always remain so.

Canis' concept of the weapon simply not firing isn't the worst idea I've heard...but I can imagine if you are shooting into a brawl it might get frustraiting; on/off/on/off...weapons that require lock, on the other hand, could probably be stopped from targetting friendly targets....

Edited by Mchawkeye, 19 January 2012 - 12:53 AM.

[Morang]

FF should stay on for immersion purposes! It's easy to for developers to turn it off, but it's possible to create an automatic penalty system, which will discourage any abuse. In World of Tanks random team deathmatch we have no prearranged companies and often even no lances, just two teams of 15 lone wolves each. Still, intentional friendly fire became next to non-existent after penalty system was introduced: you'll have to pay repair cost for damaged teammate, you'll have your nickname highlighted in player list for regular abuse, and if it's still not enough for you - you'll get banned for a week or so.

And you have to watch it when you're sniping around the corner (with some friendlies ready to pop up in front of you as they reload), firing on the enemy circled by teammate of lobbing a slow-flying, big-splash artillery shell into thick melee. I see no reasons for great whining if you hit or get hit unintentionally - for me it's like whining when you get shot by the enemy... it's just natural way of fighting. Personally, I like playing even zombie shooters with cramped surrounding and charging zombie hordes with friendly fire ON - only then it becomes a pleasing challenge.

Edited by Morang, 19 January 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[John Clavell]

I have no issues with Friendly Fire coming into play. More so when you consider indirect LRM's anyone in the area should take damage.

[Barbaric Soul]

I agree with what's being said here. FF should definently be in full affect.

[Larry Headrick]

Morang, on 19 January 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

FF should stay on for immersion purposes! It's easy to for developers to turn it off, but it's possible to create an automatic penalty system, which will discourage any abuse. In World of Tanks random team deathmatch we have no prearranged companies and often even no lances, just two teams of 15 lone wolves each. Still, intentional friendly fire became next to non-existent after penalty system was introduced: you'll have to pay repair cost for damaged teammate, you'll have your nickname highlighted in player list for regular abuse, and if it's still not enough for you - you'll get banned for a week or so.

^^This^^

[Aspius]

FF is needed. The game would lose so much without it and those who do FF on purpose should be punished for it.

Its such a obvious thing to have it in a game like this that im already counting on it

[MaddMaxx]

As noted, in a Team environment any FF incidents would be self managed. No need for the Dev to track anything. If any fillers feel the need to shoot team mates then they get one Match and then have to find another empty slot on another Team (forever) and will surely run out of places to go after a while, especially with word of mouth within the community.

Secondary or tertiary accounts matter little as the same ting happens. FF should be ON absolutely. An apology for a FF incident goes along way. It is always best to just don't find yourself having to apologizing to much. lol

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 January 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[WerewolfX]

FF on, if that player kills another player his mech icon should turn a bright teal or orange, WoT uses that same system and when someone is trolling everyone knows about it. Plus, having that person have their funds from that match deducted into the players account that he/she fired upon for repairs and grievance fees should work in keeping FF to accidents only.

[Listless Nomad]

MaddMaxx, on 19 January 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

As noted, in a Team environment any FF incidents would be self managed. No need for the Dev to track anything. If any fillers feel the need to shoot team mates then they get one Match and then have to find another empty slot on another Team (forever) and will surely run out of places to go after a while, especially with word of mouth within the community.

Secondary or tertiary accounts matter little as the same ting happens. FF should be ON absolutely. An apology for a FF incident goes along way. It is always best to just don't find yourself having to apologizing to much. lol

Slightly off topic but I'm curious - has it been stated that teams will have the ability to kick people off their team? Or bad them from their side? There's been a lot of chatter in the Lone Wolf thread about how if "lone wolves don't follow more orders - they are scratched off my list etc." Has this feature been announced? Otherwise I don't see how people with bad reps can be kicked off teams...

On topic - apologies do go a huge way for me - even if they aren't heartfelt. Especially in a game like this were there is no or limited respawn. If you blow off an arm at the beginning of the match and its costs me a kill later in the match - I'd expect an apology lol.

WerewolfX, on 19 January 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

FF on, if that player kills another player his mech icon should turn a bright teal or orange, WoT uses that same system and when someone is trolling everyone knows about it. Plus, having that person have their funds from that match deducted into the players account that he/she fired upon for repairs and grievance fees should work in keeping FF to accidents only.

That's actually a great idea - that any winnings from the match are first deducted from your account to theoretically repair the damage you caused to other mechs. I'd have to think about how a grievance fee would work but at least getting the repair cost back would be excellent!

Edited by Listless Nomad, 19 January 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[WerewolfX]

A grievance fee would be like Exp or loyalty points that said player would earn

[Listless Nomad]

WerewolfX, on 19 January 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

A grievance fee would be like Exp or loyalty points that said player would earn

Right - but my question stemmed more from how big it would be. If we are in a congested battle site - I'm trying to fire down a street, and two idiots keep running from side streets into my line of fire - I could bankrupt myself paying for them. Also you wouldn't want people abusing it by getting hit on purpose to boost their score at the end. I think a system like that could work - but it would have to be tweaked to make it fair and prevent abuse.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 19 January 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Listless Nomad, on 19 January 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Slightly off topic but I'm curious - has it been stated that teams will have the ability to kick people off their team? Or bad them from their side? There's been a lot of chatter in the Lone Wolf thread about how if "lone wolves don't follow more orders - they are scratched off my list etc." Has this feature been announced? Otherwise I don't see how people with bad reps can be kicked off teams...

No word on in Match abilities yet but my point was the offender gets one shot, the first time they do it, and then the Team who was affected takes appropriate measure to assure they don't drop again. If player Doh-Head grieves, his name is Listed along side the other grievers on a List that is stuck on the Team leads monitor.

Go be Doh-Head some where else, with our blessing and thanks.

If the game has a Match queue system, they usually include the ability for the lead player (or first player in to the first Team slot) to remove others who try and bogart in.

That can be abused but again, it is a Team game, or so the Dev have said repeatedly.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 January 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[Listless Nomad]

MaddMaxx, on 19 January 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

No word on in Match abilities yet but my point was the offender gets one shot, the first time they do it, and then the Team who was affected takes appropriate measure to assure they don't drop again. If the has a Match queue system, they usually include the ability for the lead player (or first play in to the first Team slot) to remove others who try and bogart in.

That can be abused but again it is a Team game or so the Dev have said repeatedly.

Well let's home they have some kind of system to prevent things like that. As this is an online persistant game, it's possible that people's names will get around and you'll actually be able to build a reputation. That would once again add to the immersion,

[Hanyit Greyhame]

VYCanis, on 18 January 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

having weapons deal no damage to friendlies rather breaks suspension of disbelief.

but why not just have weapons not fire if there is a teammate under the crosshairs? Wouldn't prevent people from accidentally walking into a stream of LRMs meant for someone else, or taking the odd glancing blow, but it would prevent someone from accidentally or intentionally taking solid aim at a team mate and letting loose an alpha.

Not a bad idea at all. You could also use this to make IFF jammers (if they are in the timeline, not sure) to actually have some use.

Regards,

Hanyit Greyhame

[WerewolfX]

Listless Nomad, on 19 January 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Right - but my question stemmed more from how big it would be. If we are in a congested battle site - I'm trying to fire down a street, and two idiots keep running from side streets into my line of fire - I could bankrupt myself paying for them. Also you wouldn't want people abusing it by getting hit on purpose to boost their score at the end. I think a system like that could work - but it would have to be tweaked to make it fair and prevent abuse.

Easy enough and fair enough, based on a scoring system which I'm sure the game will use to determine EXP and C-bill payout the damage incurred will be deducted awarded on a ratio of 1:1 ala WoT. If your destroyed as a result of some ***** who is trolling and has fired upon you multiple times because "LOL TEEMKILLZ R AWWWWSUM TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL" you should get whatever he's worth in that match his exp and his firstborn etc.

If you take a errant shot that shot is deducted (Say a med laser shot is worth 500 C-bills 100 C-bills awarded per point of damage) I'm cool with that.

Lets say The Med laser hits you on accident while the other weapons hit the Atlas that is lighting you up with his autocannon and my intention is to save your hide. You damaged and I offer a quick apology but, you accept it for the greater good. From a reverse point of view (being the one the atlas was lighting up) I'd accept that as well. I'd rather have my Mech intact after a fight and damaged from friendly and enemy fire than to have that Atlas toast me and be dead.

After the match I lose maybe 500 C-bills but, I earned 30K yeah I think that's acceptable.

Edited by WerewolfX, 19 January 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Listless Nomad]

WerewolfX, on 19 January 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Easy enough and fair enough, based on a scoring system which I'm sure the game will use to determine EXP and C-bill payout the damage incurred will be deducted awarded on a ratio of 1:1 ala WoT. If your destroyed as a result of some ***** who is trolling and has fired upon you multiple times because "LOL TEEMKILLZ R AWWWWSUM TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL" you should get whatever he's worth in that match his exp and his firstborn etc.

If you take a errant shot that shot is deducted (Say a med laser shot is worth 500 C-bills 100 C-bills awarded per point of damage) I'm cool with that.

Lets say The Med laser hits you on accident while the other weapons hit the Atlas that is lighting you up with his autocannon and my intention is to save your hide. You damaged and I offer a quick apology but, you accept it for the greater good. From a reverse point of view (being the one the atlas was lighting up) I'd accept that as well. I'd rather have my Mech intact after a fight and damaged from friendly and enemy fire than to have that Atlas toast me and be dead.

After the match I lose maybe 500 C-bills but, I earned 30K yeah I think that's acceptable.

That proposal makes a lot of sense - I'd go with it. The 1:1 damage to C-bills thing is the only fair way to do it if you have to repair your mech after every battle. I was worried when you said grievance penalty that you were implying "oh no I shot you with my med laser! Thats minus 500 in damage and 5000 in grievance penalty". That would be a nightmare for accidental shots.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 19 January 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Man From AUNTIE]

I like the thought of having FF on. I used to play Combat Arms and FF was on, but if you hit a teammate there was a auto-generated voice message saying, "Watch your fire, we are on the same side." Sometimes in the thick of battle you couldn't tell a teammate from a enemy, or someone stepped into your fire arc. It was really bad when I was on a really good team and some clueless fool kept zerging.

[WerewolfX]

Listless Nomad, on 19 January 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

That proposal makes a lot of sense - I'd go with it. The 1:1 damage to C-bills thing is the only fair way to do it if you have to repair your mech after every battle. I was worried when you said grievance penalty that you were implying "oh no I shot you with my med laser! Thats minus 500 in damage and 5000 in grievance penalty". That would be a nightmare for accidental shots.

Nah that's unfair, calculate a base damage formula and have your FF formula apply when the toggle is "If target is friendly apply grievance procedure." Simple line of code lots of less grieving of course SPECIFYING and writing that code are a pain in the ***.

[Listless Nomad]

WerewolfX, on 19 January 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Nah that's unfair, calculate a base damage formula and have your FF formula apply when the toggle is "If target is friendly apply grievance procedure." Simple line of code lots of less grieving of course SPECIFYING and writing that code are a pain in the ***.

Glad we're on the same page haha

[Elizander]

Some FPS games cash in on the abuse in FF. One game I know has FF on by default and the only way to avoid getting killed by teammates so that they can get your shiny gun is to get a cash item to prevent your character from getting shot at by friendlies.