67 replies to this topic

[phalanx]

If the Taurian Concordat does not get a forum, then why should the tiny St Ives Compact. Kind of hard to declare your State independent when the spouse is the Head of the Davion Intelligence, and your heir attends a Davion Military Academy. I suggest the St Ives units be put into the Davion Command Structure.

[Larry Headrick]

No thay should be part of Davion.

[Listless Nomad]

Phalanx, on 23 January 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

If the Taurian Concordat does not get a forum, then why should the tiny St Ives Compact. Kind of hard to declare your State independent when the spouse is the Head of the Davion Intelligence, and your heir attends a Davion Military Academy. I suggest the St Ives units be put into the Davion Command Structure.

That would be fine by me. I would prefer independence just to give a little more flair to the boards and let regional pride shine through, but if that were the end result thats fine. The major issue I have is the complete nonsensicality of them being considered part of the Capellan Confederation. Also in response to the Taurian Concordat - see my previous posts on political influence and history. The SIC was actually a political piece and had a role in politics -where as the Taurian Concordat seems to have no role in anything until the mid sixties. Please correct me if I'm wrong - that's just the reasons I see as to why I'd pick the SIC over the concordat for independence.

[Mason Grimm]

Not MWO specific so moved to Off Topic

[Thorn Hallis]

Listless Nomad, on 23 January 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Do I smell the fear that you couldn't take a few measly planets back and need to have them on your team to start with?

Hey, stop answering propaganda with even more propaganda!

The reason why the compact needs to be part of the Confederation in MWO might be quite simple: HildCo Interplanteray. As it seems each successor state gets its own set of mechs, with lowered prices for warriors from the respective faction. Without HildCo the capelleans would have no production facility to produce assault mechs (canonwise). So this might be the developers way to explain where the capellean assault mech (probably the Victor) comes from.

Or they just don't expect enough players to join the Compact, who knows.

[AdamBaines]

Listless Nomad, on 23 January 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

I would not argue that the FRR deserves to be independent. The fervor and affection its people have for it has been evident in my dealings with them. You also make a good point that the FRR plays a much larger role in BT history overall than the SIC does. However, in the timeline we are playing in - the SIC was a huge weapon to use against the Capellans - and drove a lot of political decisions. I'd love for them to be independent if only for a role play perspective. If they get swallowed up - you could have a SIC in exile with players that would be looking to free their old worlds. It would add a new dynamic to the game. Also - based on what the devs have said about core worlds and the like - they could protect St. Ives and prevent it from being utterly destroyed. I am not so familiar with the periphery powers - so I will defer to you knowledge of them. My only counter argument would be that the Periphery powers played less of a political role than even the small SIC did. Also a SIC unit fought against the clans - which gives them a stake in this universe that periphery powers do not have. That being said - I would have no problem with their inclusion in the game (the big ones only) - to provide something else for the mercs to fight and defend their border worlds against. After all bandit hunting was how Phelan Kell got captured....

I totally agree that the SIC could have some good in game intrigue with the Cappies. It could have something to do with in-game universe mechanics that kept Devs from including a lot of the minor powers and the Periphery out. Maybe they will add them with additional releases.

But I'd have to say that the initial line they have drawn as to who to include and not include is pretty good. You cant satisfy everyone.

[VEDRFOLNIR]

I agree with Listless Nomad - St. Ives Compact should be its' own faction or, if not that, then at least considered part of the Federated Commonwealth. I think that doing so will add additional faction 'variety' to the game. Lumping St. Ives in with the Capellan Confederation is, in my view, one of the very few head-scratching things the devs have done.

[Listless Nomad]

Thorn Hallis, on 23 January 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Hey, stop answering propaganda with even more propaganda!

The reason why the compact needs to be part of the Confederation in MWO might be quite simple: HildCo Interplanteray. As it seems each successor state gets its own set of mechs, with lowered prices for warriors from the respective faction. Without HildCo the capelleans would have no production facility to produce assault mechs (canonwise). So this might be the developers way to explain where the capellean assault mech (probably the Victor) comes from.

Or they just don't expect enough players to join the Compact, who knows.

But it's just so much funnn to spout propaganda! But on a more serious note, I can see your argument and it makes sense from a gameplay point of view. My counterpoint would be to give the Capellans a reason to invade. Make them not start out with cheap assault mechs in the beginning. (Each faction is going to have it's pros and cons right?) Make the Capellans have to invade the FedCom to take the factory away from them. This would add much needed intrigue and fervor into the campaign of the game. Picture the epic battles for that world with desperate Capellans needing cheaper battle mechs, trying to prevent damage to save money - while equally desperate defenders try to keep the Capellans from catching a break and making the rest of the war harder. I could see that planet exchanging hands numerous times. I understand that scenario could easily be reversed and just have the Capellans on the defensive for the same result - but think of it this way. No offense but the cappies are pretty much always going to be on the defensive unless they catch some great luck. Why not let them have an offensive target- something with great reward oh so tantalizingly close. It would match up with canon more effectively and make the cappies more aggressive than just being a turtle nation - telling the rest of the IS to bring it. That wouldn't be any fun.

AdamBaines, on 24 January 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

I totally agree that the SIC could have some good in game intrigue with the Cappies. It could have something to do with in-game universe mechanics that kept Devs from including a lot of the minor powers and the Periphery out. Maybe they will add them with additional releases.

But I'd have to say that the initial line they have drawn as to who to include and not include is pretty good. You cant satisfy everyone.

For the bolded part of your quote - I can see that (read my response above). As to the last line, I would have to disagree. Does it really make more sense to have the St. Ives Compact be more Capellan than independent. The best analogy would be (and this could get me in a lot of trouble) to draw China and Taiwan as the same country. To some people they are - but to the majority of the world they are separate. Same deal here. In the Canon St. Ives was independent - but you are right you can't please everyone. I just hope they please me

[Adridos]

You just want cheaper mechs it seems and feed your hate towards Liao.

St.Ives was a part of the CC before and they will become part of it again. Their rulers are a family of our rulers (just like Steiners with you). What makes them better on the Davion side? + You already have trillions of planets, players, mechs, etc. Why do you need more?

[Thorn Hallis]

Listless Nomad, on 24 January 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

My counterpoint would be to give the Capellans a reason to invade.

Don't you think the Capelleans allready have enough reasons (i.e. planets) to invade?

[Listless Nomad]

Adridos, on 24 January 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

You just want cheaper mechs it seems and feed your hate towards Liao.

St.Ives was a part of the CC before and they will become part of it again. Their rulers are a family of our rulers (just like Steiners with you). What makes them better on the Davion side? + You already have trillions of planets, players, mechs, etc. Why do you need more?

I hope you understand that my "hatred" of the Liaos is part of roleplaying and I don't have anything against you or any other Capellans right? Glad we got that sorted out. I'll address your issues one at a time. Yes the SIC was part of the CC, but it is no longer - and therefore shouldn't be that way in the game. It's a fact that the CC is smaller, don't blame me for writing it that way. If anything I want to give you guys a chance to get it back - rather than breaking with lore and giving it to you right away. Yes Candace Liao is the sister of Romano Liao- but the fact that they hate eachother and sent assassins after one another doesn't mean they should be on the same team. The steiners and davions did that and we had a civil war. Your civil war already happened. What makes them better on the Davion side is that the ruler of the SIC was married to a FedSuns officer - and her son and heir attends a FedCom military institution. Niether fact makes them very compatible with the Capellan Confederation. And yes the FedCom is huge with tons of wealth. Believe me I'm not advocating this to make the FedCom better - just to have the game be the best it can be and make the most sense. Certain factions have disadvantages and this just happens to be yours. It's not my fault.

Thorn Hallis, on 24 January 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Don't you think the Capelleans allready have enough reasons (i.e. planets) to invade?

I think they do have plenty of opportunities to invade other areas. However, I suspect the mentality and the situation will dictate predominantly defensive battles to begin with. I expect the FWL and Davion forces to try to snuff you out from the get go - and I don't think you are going to have the resources to expand in all directions without leaving yourselves weak for a counter attack. By giving you guys a singular offensive goal - you can focus your efforts in one direction as well as increase your faction's status with one target. With a Capellan SIC from the start - you have more to defend and less focus than you would otherwise.

[Adridos]

You worry we will get to New Avalon before you get your shiny Atlas? (or whatever you want to pilot)

Trust me friend, that handful of worlds won't make a difference. We are getting there either.

[Listless Nomad]

Adridos, on 24 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

You worry we will get to New Avalon before you get your shiny Atlas? (or whatever you want to pilot)

Trust me friend, that handful of worlds won't make a difference. We are getting there either.

If you are so confident - why so hesitant to follow canon and give them up?

[Thorn Hallis]

Listless Nomad, on 24 January 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

I think they do have plenty of opportunities to invade other areas. However, I suspect the mentality and the situation will dictate predominantly defensive battles to begin with. I expect the FWL and Davion forces to try to snuff you out from the get go - and I don't think you are going to have the resources to expand in all directions without leaving yourselves weak for a counter attack. By giving you guys a singular offensive goal - you can focus your efforts in one direction as well as increase your faction's status with one target. With a Capellan SIC from the start - you have more to defend and less focus than you would otherwise.

Tikonov, Sarna, Liao and Chesterton are enough future endevours. And if Marik wants to break the Concord of Kapteyn, so be it. It will just add Andurien to our hitlist.

[Listless Nomad]

Thorn Hallis, on 24 January 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Tikonov, Sarna, Liao and Chesterton are enough future endevours. And if Marik wants to break the Concord of Kapteyn, so be it. It will just add Andurien to our hitlist.

Fair enough - those are worthy targets. Still doesn't mean that the SIC belongs in Liao hands to begin with lol.

[Listless Nomad]

Figure I'll resurrect this thread in Hayden's honor. Let's see now that we have more members if we can get a bit more of a vote going.

[Jack Gallows]

Resolute Yes for both

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Jack Gallows, on 12 April 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Resolute Yes for both

Same here!

[Hayden]

Bump for justice.

[Adridos]

Listless Nomad, on 12 April 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Figure I'll resurrect this thread in Hayden's honor. Let's see now that we have more members if we can get a bit more of a vote going.

You just got tainted Hayden. Somone performed a necromancy ritual in your name!