157 replies to this topic

[Robert Silverton]

well couple of things to rember about these 2 machines. While i like both of them the use for the dragon was Raider/ heavy recon meaning fast in hit the target and run away. Anything that can catch the dragon can't out fight it and it can outrun those that can. Now the cent was disigned as a line holder mech to fill heavy lance groups even tho it is med.


And well choseing a mech would be wonderful are you sure that we have a choice to begin with?

[Harrow]

Garth Erlam, on 25 January 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

1.5 more tons of armour is, what, 18% more armour? And 35% higher speed.

I personally like the Dragon more, because of the speed and extremely high armour.

Even though I am biased as a DCMS pilot, the Dragon is the better overall choice on the field of battle.

1. If I engage a centurion on an open field i can rotate my torso accordingly and engage him at range for several shots before he comes close to being in range, oh but wait, I can just increase speed and keep him there until I run out of AC/5 ammo (40 shots) or I destroy you or at the very least your right arm removing that 5 point damage avantage; more than likely.

2. Up close you have the damage output advantage by 5 points if I cant shoot that AC/10 out from under you, but you also have all your LRM ammo in the most weakly armored section of your mech. Guess what I just unloaded on causing secondary and tertiary explosions to ripple across your mech...

3. In terms of alpha strike, i can take out your center torso completely crippling your mech. Your alpha strike still leaves armor on mine. Again, centurion loses.

Have a nice day!

[revanus]

1) Staying in the open to fire the AC-5 isn't worth being exposed to multiple LRM-10 salvos. This is a losing proposition.

2) The AC-10 is more than its damage output. Strategically, it delivers all of its force to a single point. This makes for faster component crippling/center coring. When in close combat, this is a big advantage.

3) If you're close enough to use your medium lasers, you're probably too close to the Centurion. Not to mention any close-combat friends he might be hanging with.

I think its fairly clear that, pound for pound, the Dragon is a nice TT package. The 5/8 speed is a big deal, allowing +2 evasion while walking, and placing a +3 evasion run within reach. Additionally, the difference in weaponry packages between a Dragon and a Centurion is less pronounced, due to the random nature of aiming and damage allocation.

But simulation is a different ballgame. Put the Dragon in a long-range sniper role, and the AC-5 only adds a marginal utility. Get closer, and you wind up outclassed by tougher CQB mechs. In a large battle, the only role that really fits the Dragon is as a light-mech hunter and opportunistic hit and run stager--a role filled pretty well by actual light mechs. The Dragon is enough of a jack-of-all-trades to be able to serve multiple roles in a pinch. But I think people will find that the standard Dragon is a little bit too generic to be actually useful, particularly in light of weight class and cost concerns (as others noted).

[Harrow]

revanus, on 29 January 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

1) Staying in the open to fire the AC-5 isn't worth being exposed to multiple LRM-10 salvos. This is a losing proposition.

2) The AC-10 is more than its damage output. Strategically, it delivers all of its force to a single point. This makes for faster component crippling/center coring. When in close combat, this is a big advantage.

3) If you're close enough to use your medium lasers, you're probably too close to the Centurion. Not to mention any close-combat friends he might be hanging with.

I think its fairly clear that, pound for pound, the Dragon is a nice TT package. The 5/8 speed is a big deal, allowing +2 evasion while walking, and placing a +3 evasion run within reach. Additionally, the difference in weaponry packages between a Dragon and a Centurion is less pronounced, due to the random nature of aiming and damage allocation.

But simulation is a different ballgame. Put the Dragon in a long-range sniper role, and the AC-5 only adds a marginal utility. Get closer, and you wind up outclassed by tougher CQB mechs. In a large battle, the only role that really fits the Dragon is as a light-mech hunter and opportunistic hit and run stager--a role filled pretty well by actual light mechs. The Dragon is enough of a jack-of-all-trades to be able to serve multiple roles in a pinch. But I think people will find that the standard Dragon is a little bit too generic to be actually useful, particularly in light of weight class and cost concerns (as others noted).

1. the point is at beyond range 15 you have the damage advantage. You also have an LRM-10 and the degradation is going to take its toll on the centurion much faster than you. Especially in the torso or center mass portion of the centurion where missiles would tend to hit the easiest.

2. As mentioned keep the centurion at range with your speed until that ac/10 is no longer a problem. Also if you look at the armor distribution of each mech the dragoncan get to vital critical components and ammunition faster against the centurion that vice versus. The dragon can core the centurion before he gets cored. If they stay true to form the armor difference between the two creates a glaring weakness in the centurions LT where his lrm ammo is stored. More so than the dragon.

3. if he has friends, so do I. Also, at close range his weaker armor is going to tell. As mentioned if we both are able to focus fire to the CT one of us is cored, the other has a big gouge in his remaining armor.

It'll be fun testing all the theory crafting in game

[Yeach]

Better comparions might be 2 Dragons vs 3 Centurions (with 1 Centurion with a jammed autocannon; you know damn Luxor D models.).

Edited by Yeach, 29 January 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[Harrow]

Yeach, on 29 January 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Better comparions might be 2 Dragons vs 3 Centurions (with 1 Centurion with a jammed autocannon; you know damn Luxor D models.).

That'll be an interesting day...

[csvelemental]

Could always mechlab the ac/10 away in the Centurion for a AC 5 and a bunch of armor, Even it up at long range since speed won't be that much of an issue. Just a thought.

[Omigir]

If you look at it stock only:
At long range in an open flat feild, that Dragon is only doing a bit more damage the the centurion as they both have LRM 10's. And even then, how good is the pilot? is he landing every shot? Is he spreading damage out or is he able to focus fire?

Other terane: The centurion pilot have an idea where the dragon is? How much cover and concelment is there for the centurion ot weave and wind himself through, does the dragon know the centurion pilot is there?

In a city.. drgon is screwed.

[Big Willie]

The only issue I have is that the mechs are too similar. I wish they would have picked a differnt mech to fill this role rather than the Centuriion (well actually I would rather see the centurion than the Dragon, but only because there are a better pool of heavy mechs to replace it).

I would have much rather seen a Blackjack, Enforcer, Assassin, Withworth or Dervish.

[Denvian]

Centurion for me but only because I plan on protecting my commander and he will not be able to move that fast anyway.

[Omigir]

Big Willie, on 30 January 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

The only issue I have is that the mechs are too similar. I wish they would have picked a differnt mech to fill this role rather than the Centuriion (well actually I would rather see the centurion than the Dragon, but only because there are a better pool of heavy mechs to replace it).

I would have much rather seen a Blackjack, Enforcer, Assassin, Withworth or Dervish.

The assasin is the only meh out of those that I would ever be cought seen piloting : B

I say replace the dragon, there are much better heavies out there than that!

[Harrow]

Omigir, on 30 January 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

If you look at it stock only:
At long range in an open flat feild, that Dragon is only doing a bit more damage the the centurion as they both have LRM 10's. And even then, how good is the pilot? is he landing every shot? Is he spreading damage out or is he able to focus fire?

Other terane: The centurion pilot have an idea where the dragon is? How much cover and concelment is there for the centurion ot weave and wind himself through, does the dragon know the centurion pilot is there?

In a city.. drgon is screwed.

Wow. You Centurion pilots are a loyal bunch to be sure! I'll make sure I never drink at a bar in the same place as you!

I can tell because you all make these statements as if they don't apply to the Dragon either. Like this here which seems to indicate that the slower Centurion will out maneuver the Faster Dragon.

And for the guy up the thread talking about how little the damage difference is at longer range, its the same argument the centurion boys have been making for the centurion at closer range.

I take it back though, next round is on me!

Edited by Harrow, 30 January 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[Omigir]

Harrow, on 30 January 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Wow. You Centurion pilots are a loyal bunch to be sure! I'll make sure I never drink at a bar in the same place as you! I can tell because you all make these statements as if they don't apply to the Dragon either. Like this here which seems to indicate that the slower Centurion will out maneuver the Faster Dragon. And for the guy up the thread talking about how little the damage difference is at longer range, its the same argument the centurion boys have been making for the centurion at closer range. I take it back though, next round is on me!

I am only a Centurion pilot becuase PGI wont let me pilot a cougar XD

But yeah, I am damn loyal ; p Tell you what, you buy the next round, I will get us shots for after that!

[Outlaw2]

This thread is much to do about nothing. You guys are basically having a long winded TT discussion.

[Omigir]

Im talking MW4, though Outlaw o__O

[Harrow]

=Outlaw=, on 30 January 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

This thread is much to do about nothing. You guys are basically having a long winded TT discussion.

Yeah, and? Go to your liquor cabinet (the fridge) and grab a drink. Then come back to this post after about 4 drinks or so. :-P

[Outlaw2]

Omigir, on 30 January 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Im talking MW4, though Outlaw o__O

So.. you were talking about MW4 when you said "they both have LRM 10's"? Sounds like TT talk to me. The majority of the thread is talking about the stock TT dragon and cent. There is a forum section for that : P

Lets not forget all the secondary stats that come with the PC versions of the game: torso twist speed, torso twist range, turn rate, acel/decel, hitbox layout, ect...These will make or break the mechs (especially the last one) all of which are unknown to us. Also the mechlab could potentially nullify most of whats said here. Also there are the modules thing, and the fact that one is a heavy and the other a medium. Reading all the info we have so far, it sounds to me like they really want to give each weight class there own set of roles...and their specialized modules.

This is all stuff we really can't have proper discussion on ...YET. So yeah 7 pages on TT rules is much to do about nothing..unless this was in the tabletop section.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 30 January 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Harrow]

=Outlaw=, on 30 January 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

So.. you were talking about MW4 when you said "they both have LRM 10's"? Sounds like TT talk to me. The majority of the thread is talking about the stock TT dragon and cent. There is a forum section for that : P

Lets not forget all the secondary stats that come with the PC versions of the game: torso twist speed, torso twist range, turn rate, acel/decel, hitbox layout, ect...These will make or break the mechs (especially the last one) all of which are unknown to us. Also the mechlab could potentially nullify most of whats said here. Also there are the modules thing, and the fact that one is a heavy and the other a medium. Reading all the info we have so far, it sounds to me like they really want to give each weight class there own set of roles...and their specialized modules.

This is all stuff we really can't have proper discussion on ...YET. So yeah 7 pages on TT rules is much to do about nothing..unless this was in the tabletop section.

Better make it 6 drinks...

[Outlaw2]

Harrow, on 30 January 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Better make it 6 drinks...

Hey don't let me stop you.

[Omigir]

=Outlaw=, on 30 January 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Hey don't let me stop you.

Pshaw. You can make a Tro verison of a dragon in MW4.

Ontop of that, what else am I supposed to use as refrance at this point? I know how to pilot a mech in MW4 and I know how the guns work in MW4 so its what I spoke from. No one said anything about MW:O

first post started out:

(This is pasted from Sarna, bear with me while I clean it up.)
etc etc etc

and then I ran with it. n__n cant get mad at me for trying to answer a question that really had no boundries on how to answer it.