155 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

Fact is that Duane Loose did a fantastic job way back when he slightly reworked the Unseen Mechs [Crusader, Rifleman, Stinger, Warhammer, etc] AND came up with a bevy of new designs like the Centurion, Victor, Hunchback, Orion, etc. The fact that there was no real artwork depicting 'Mechs' in North America at the time was probably a challenge, too, but all the same he came up with some fantastic concepts. Now, to say that some of the drawings were not well planned out would be an understatement, but consider at the time that artwork was being created that FASA might have told him, “Hey Duane, come up with fifty new Mechs, from twenty to one hundred tons, and we'll fill in the blanks.” So he knows a little about the various weapon systems, from energy to ballistic to missile and he comes up with what FASA asked for. I highly doubt Mr. Loose was also charged with designing the Mechs, assigning them weights and placing weapons. Hell, sometimes FASA didn't place weapons in the correct torso when they had the picture in front of them. So to say something like, "This Mech doesn't even look like it could feed ammo from the Right Torso to the Right Arm, what a crock!" is being a little short-sighted. It is entirely possible that Mr. Loose intended the arm to be a PPC, for instance, but had no say in the final technical information.

Now to this Centurion update. I love it, as with all the other designs that have come before it. Looking forward to what else comes down the pipe, too. Head with neck or no neck. Fat or skinny ankles. Thick or thin waist. Barrel or slim chest… it all looks ten times better to me, so just roll with it gang.

[Aegis Kleais]

A neck, like grappling hands and human-proportioned body parts, for me, vastly takes away from the belief that the object is a legitimate war machine, and instead, is a Gundam suit of armor.

To house the pilot in a pivotable head makes little sense. Video camera can capture feeds from around the Mech instantaneously rather than waiting for gyros to rotate a head into position.

The "neck-less" designs presented (up to the Centurion) have looked mean, rugged and indicative of being a cohesive and collective machine designed for warfare.

[Kaemon]

it's very Hoplite, which is wonderful, if the armored arm is functional at reducing damage (and you can fire across your body actually using it as a shield) you have a very nice right flanking mech (where's the wrong handed version?).

Leftists!

How about when we get melee? hmmm, all of a sudden that shield might be worth something when someone's trying to crush your noggin with a battlin' axe the size of a Yukon Denali.

People need to give up the ghost that the mechs in this game are going to be TRO, those designs are outdated and need a refresh (sorry to be harsh about it).

You're not getting MW 4.5 here, it's a reboot, and a new direction for the franchise (they're easing the fanbase into it).

strap your 'Change' helmets on and get ready.

Edited by Kaemon, 26 January 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[Chuckie]

Aegis Kleais™, on 26 January 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

A neck, like grappling hands and human-proportioned body parts, for me, vastly takes away from the belief that the object is a legitimate war machine, and instead, is a Gundam suit of armor.

Partially agree.. but do think front line assaults and heavys (Light mechs not as much), need a bashing tool (Hand, hammer, something) so when they are at the walls, and out of ammo they can bash in the doors without damaging the mech..

That said, I disagree with Mechs having hands AND holding weapons in the hands (Defeats the purpose of having hands..) If a weapon is in the arm of a Mech with a hand it should be incorporated into the arm of the Mech not be "held". The complexity of feeding it ammo, or storing batteries in the weapon wouldn't be practical.

Also different Mechs by different houses/clans/etc.. will be designed based on different groups opinion of what is needed. So in some cases a hand maybe beneficial for a certain Mech.. (In this case the Centurion)

But as I mentioned before, it would still need to be at its core a War Machine and not a cartoon. As you mentioned, having a head on a swivel would serve no purpose other than to make the Mech much more complicated, heavier than it already is.. add to that tactically it would be a problem too.. personally think a number of Mechs could not even have a "head" and the cockpit could be buried in the Mech under the center torso armor, with everything shown to the pilot via cameras. Although that could be a problem should a mech shut down, get his with ECM or EP or possibly PPC pulse could make the Mech susceptible to going blind.

Edited by Chuckie, 26 January 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[BarHaid]

StaggerCheck, on 26 January 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Fact is that Duane Loose did a fantastic job way back when he slightly reworked the Unseen Mechs [Crusader, Rifleman, Stinger, Warhammer, etc] AND came up with a bevy of new designs like the Centurion, Victor, Hunchback, Orion, etc. The fact that there was no real artwork depicting 'Mechs' in North America at the time was probably a challenge, too, but all the same he came up with some fantastic concepts.

D*mn straight he did!
I've got my issues with the new Centurion, but the lack of neck isn't one of them. And FD took one of my LEAST favorite Loose designs (Hunchback) and made it look GOOD while still being very​ recognizable. Complain and praise; that is what I shall do!

[Kaemon]

Chuckie, on 26 January 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

personally think a number of Mechs could not even have a "head" and the cockpit could be buried in the Mech under the center torso armor, with everything shown to the pilot via cameras. Although that could be a problem should a mech shut down, get his with ECM or EP or possibly PPC pulse could make the Mech susceptible to going blind.

Agreed, heads are really just to personify the mechs for the fans, they serve very little purpose (except to provide a mushy, non-critical target for enemies).

Another take however, what if you have a piece of sensitive (or expensive) imaging equipment that needs to be able to cover 360 dregrees...the head (on most mechs) would serve as a good place to mount it.

[Khushrenada]

Chuckie, on 26 January 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Which BTW I am COMPLETELY fine with.. to me the Mechs should look like they are war machines, not cartoons.

Also BTW.. should note the fact a headshot can kill the biggest mech.. they wouldnt put the cockpit on a stick where it says:

<<< SHOOT HERE >>>

So a war machine wouldn't have the cockpit exposed like the cartoonish looking Gundam, RoboTech, Voltron, MaCross, etc.. all mostly do.

i guess you don`t like anime mechas?
since for example in a gundam the head is just a sensor platform of some sort, while the pilot is actually sitting in the torso, below the head. therefor the battletech mechs are actually those that are stupid designed, since they DO have the pilot sitting in the head

since im not only a battletech fan, but also a mecha fan of all sorts, i felt compelled to post on that subject

[Nick Makiaveli]

Several people have mentioned the benefits of no head, ie cockpit in the torso etc. But unless I missed it no one came right out and said maybe this is to justify removing head shots from the game? Cockpit just becomes a component of the CT.

Yes, No, or **** Newb?

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

I would say the cockpit will still be a separate hit box, just not as easy to target.

[KingCobra]

This is one of my ancestors a Centurion the elite of the elite he was badass just like the new Centurion will be.



and this is why he looks badass his armor helmet and shield.Notice the helmet and shield?



So when i get a new Centurion i will tear you apart on the Battlefield.Ow by the way look at my shield and hopefully a spear or short sword in the right arm so i can bash your cockpit in half with a combo move. Of coarse he is also fully loaded with his normal weapons loadout to kick some more butt.

Edited by KingCobra, 26 January 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[Chuckie]

Nick Makiaveli, on 26 January 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Several people have mentioned the benefits of no head, ie cockpit in the torso etc. But unless I missed it no one came right out and said maybe this is to justify removing head shots from the game? Cockpit just becomes a component of the CT.

Yes, No, or **** Newb?

No you will always have the chance to hit the head/cockpit..

But if you have it on a stick at the top of the mech it does make it a much easier kill shot that shooting for cockpit buried between two big shoulders in the center of the torso..

Khushrenada, on 26 January 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

i guess you don`t like anime mechas?

You would be correct sir.. everytime I seem them, I see form over function or have bad flashbacks to horrible cheesy storylines of Anime. Which are as unique and varied and well written as a Scooby Doo episode.

Would go to reason though Kurita and to a point Liao would prefer their mechs to look retarded.. as it would be a cultural thing as creators of anime would make sense you want your mechs to look that way.

Edited by Chuckie, 26 January 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Khushrenada]

Chuckie, on 26 January 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

You would be correct sir.. everytime I seem them, I see form over function or have bad flashbacks to horrible cheesy storylines of Anime. Which are as unique and varied and well written as a Scooby Doo episode.

Would go to reason though Kurita and to a point Liao would prefer their mechs to look retarded.. as it would be a cultural thing as creators of anime would make sense you want your mechs to look that way.

you are poking a bee`s nest there man....
never provoke a honorable warrior of the combine with such statements. it might ruin your day

btw you sound like you have watched your last anime a long time ago. i myself enjoyed Gundam SEED a lot and found the plot to be very good (despite the fact, that some characters seem to resemble some of the original series a lot ).

[Chuckie]

Khushrenada, on 26 January 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

you are poking a bee`s nest there man....
never provoke a honorable warrior of the combine with such statements. it might ruin your day

btw you sound like you have watched your last anime a long time ago. i myself enjoyed Gundam SEED a lot and found the plot to be very good (despite the fact, that some characters seem to resemble some of the original series a lot ).

I quit watching Anime before Anime was cool to watch

Although a Merc.. think my alliances will defiantly be with Steiner or Davion.. depending on who pays best (But think that goes without saying.. ) SO sure we will be able to settle this on the field sometime in the Summer

Edited by Chuckie, 26 January 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Coralld]

I like anime and Japanies mecha but I also like my battleteck MUCH more then the Japanies style of mechs. Thats partly do to the fact I have been an engineer for several years and once you have been in that busness you start to notice and look at things differently, expecialy when it comes to machines.
With that being said, I have taken the new Centurion and compared it side by side with anime mechs and the only similarity I see between the two is exstensive detailing, but no way anything really remenecent of Gundum and the like. Battletech mechs are suppose to be tank like which the old TRO clearly lacked on a large number of mechs and the old Centurion designe really suffered from, but the new one clearly looks like they melded the mech with a tank. Yes Japanies style of mechs are suppose to be more like suits of armor that are suppose to ressemble Japanies Samurai or Europian Knights with their more flashy style of form is more important then function where as in battletech the mechs form fits function, which as I pointed out before, a lot of the old TRO did a poor job of doing. The new modernized BT mechs that we are seening now actually look like the form fits function.
Also, I never really liked, or understood the benofits of having a swiviling head that a few video screens couldnt do. It made no sense and was nothing more then a prime target to knock out the mech with one well placed shot. Even with Japanies style of mechs with swiviling heads didn't make sense to me. Ok I get that the head is filled with sensers and the pilot is actually in the torso but still, taking out the head would still be the easiest way to cripple a mech and rendering it blind. Now for mechs that had their head/cockpit sunk into the torso provided not only better protection for the pilot but also protects the very importan sensors.
Another thing people seem to have an issue with is the shield on the arm. It could be used as some sort of deffence against incoming rounds or to deflect a glancing blow from a melee weapon which is entirly possible, but it can also serve another purpuse that no one hear mentioned and that purpuse could be a simple counter weight, after all, an AC/10 is not a light weapon and having more weight displaced on the other arm would help the gyros maintain balance a lot easier.

Edited by Coralld, 26 January 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Coralld, on 26 January 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Another thing people seem to have an issue with is the shield on the arm. It could be used as some sort of deffence against incoming rounds or to deflect a glancing blow from a melee weapon which is entirly possible, but it can also serve another purpuse that no one hear mentioned and that purpuse could be a simple counter weight, after all, an AC/10 is not a light weapon and having more weight displaced on the other arm would help the gyros maintain balance a lot easier.

YES, awesome explanation. I was trying to think of something realstic to justify it myself, but this hits the nail on the head. Bravo sir.

[Tsen Shang]

This has turned into a fantastic discussion, but I'd like to clear up my thoughts because they've clearly been misinterpreted (which is clearly my fault for not stating my point clearly).

I like all of the new mechs except this one. Every time a new mech is posted, I take some time to look at it, cry a little because it's not what I've memorized after all these years, and then recognize each one for what it is: an excellently done update of an old and outdated mech.

I threw in the anime comment at the end because of the pose and the claw hand and foot, which look silly to me. I threw in the neck comment because I thought it'd be funny. The problem I have with this mech is that it doesn't LOOK like a Centurion.

[Coralld]

Tsen Shang, on 26 January 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

The problem I have with this mech is that it doesn't LOOK like a Centurion.

As soon as I saw the weapons lay out and that crest on its head it screamed Centurion to me but was in disbaliefe that the Centurion could look this good. Then I looked at the title: Centurion, and then I was screaming and giggling like a school girl do to a total geek out.

[Omigir]

Tsen Shang, on 26 January 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

This has turned into a fantastic discussion, but I'd like to clear up my thoughts because they've clearly been misinterpreted (which is clearly my fault for not stating my point clearly). I like all of the new mechs except this one. Every time a new mech is posted, I take some time to look at it, cry a little because it's not what I've memorized after all these years, and then recognize each one for what it is: an excellently done update of an old and outdated mech. I threw in the anime comment at the end because of the pose and the claw hand and foot, which look silly to me. I threw in the neck comment because I thought it'd be funny. The problem I have with this mech is that it doesn't LOOK like a Centurion.

To be honest, when I saw mustangs (the car) oh way back in 1999 and I as a young man was starting to learn about cars. (was a late bloomer for vehicles) Those mustangs, and even the 2000 models didnt look anything like what I thought and or knew a mustang to be (I was used to the clasic 70's mustangs) But there are always going to be those small details that identify them as what they are. Some mechs are not going to be able to update as smoothly as others and will loose some of the looks they used to have in favor for functonality. Not every mech is going to be like (and im going to hear this one, I feel) the dodge chalenger and or the hunchback where the update is just as iconic looking as the origonal.

[Riptor]

Quote

a little more of the mechs we love and a little less Japan. I find myself hoping that many of my favorite mechs don't get bastardized. If the Archer isn't true to the original, I'm out.

Love how you demand less japanese... for a completly japanese made design... ^^

Little hint: The archer was designed specially for the Robotech anime.

Also the old centurion looked utterly stupid.. look at those legs for example... how is the original centurion even able to walk with those legs? He has no knee activators for crying out loud. And if you look at his feet all that weight rests on flat foot like appendages, connected to the legs by little balls.

That machine would never work like that in any game.

Anyways im in full support for the new centurion.. he looks bad *** and not like the joke his ancestor looks like. The old machine looks like it will fall over just by someone sneezing at it.

Also.. did no one noticed that turnable heads became somewhat less and less present the more advanced mechs came out? Most of the Clan design mechs for example do not even have real "heads" to speak off.?

And some of them look really Animiish (Incubus/Vixen for example looks like another Robotech copy)

Quote

So when i get a new Centurion i will tear you apart on the Battlefield.

Just dont let the Steiners lure you into the woods eh?

[BarHaid]

Omigir, on 26 January 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

To be honest, when I saw mustangs (the car) oh way back in 1999 and I as a young man was starting to learn about cars. (was a late bloomer for vehicles) Those mustangs, and even the 2000 models didnt look anything like what I thought and or knew a mustang to be (I was used to the clasic 70's mustangs) But there are always going to be those small details that identify them as what they are. Some mechs are not going to be able to update as smoothly as others and will loose some of the looks they used to have in favor for functonality. Not every mech is going to be like (and im going to hear this one, I feel) the dodge chalenger and or the hunchback where the update is just as iconic looking as the origonal.

This is a hope that I have (and I need to get off my backside and make it an official suggestion). Let us buy skins for the mechs that give us historical variability. Do you want a sleek new Centurion fresh off the updated line, or one that rolled off a centuries-old automated factory? Something for the future, after we get settled into the game.