130 replies to this topic

[Iron Avenger]

Ok while I've been looking over the BattleTech wiki and other sources, I have noticed something fairly peculiar. Looking at the effects of flamethrowers in MWO, and based on the height of the MWO atlas as a measuring stick (20.1m), I have noticed that the flamethrowers in the game project a stream quite longer than they are supposed to, guessing the stream length to be around 60m, modern flamethrowers only go around 35m. Even if the mech version is substantially larger, what would the fuel mixture be and what kind of propulsion system do you think that it would need? Post your thoughts.

[AlphaKale]

Flamers use plasma from the mech's reactor, not liquefied gasoline like contemporary flamethrowers. Basically you are pointing a big stream of burning hydrogen at your target. I actually think the hydrogen would go even less distance than liquid, but for game balance the flamers have to travel further to make them even remotely useful. They actually generate more heat than they inflict, so they really are a niche weapon.

[Iron Avenger]

Ok, you say it uses plasma, from the reactor, right?

You do know that plasma is an electrically charged GAS. Burning plasma is like setting a fire in a gas fireplace, same end result. And you need magnetic bottles to move around plasma, which requires HUGE amounts of energy just to move the plasma around, not to mention burning it and projecting it at high speeds

[Evinthal]

Iron Avenger, on 10 August 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Ok, you say it uses plasma, from the reactor, right?

You do know that plasma is an electrically charged GAS. Burning plasma is like setting a fire in a gas fireplace, same end result. And you need magnetic bottles to move around plasma, which requires HUGE amounts of energy just to move the plasma around, not to mention burning it and projecting it at high speeds

Here we go bringing real life physics into a game about giant walking tanks piloted by one person. Some suspension of disbelief is required.

[Iron Avenger]

That was the whole point of this thread was it not? I was wanting for some help moving the game physics into REAL WORLD physics. Also, wouldn't the reactor eventually run out of plasma and thus shut down if you used the flamethrower too much?

Edited by Iron Avenger, 10 August 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Jokerman]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flamer

This might help

Less of a bottled fuel being ignited and more of a direct venting of plasma from the battlemech's fusion reactor

I'm no physicist, but I would assume that the amount of plasma vented is negligible compared to what is contained within the reactor.

[God of War]

Stop relating BT-universe Tech with real one. If you dont know how to construct
KF-Drive it´s pointless. It´s Battletech, not LogicTech!

[Iron Avenger]

Read this, it should help.

Iron Avenger, on 10 August 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Ok, you say it uses plasma, from the reactor, right?

You do know that plasma is an electrically charged GAS. Burning plasma is like setting a fire in a gas fireplace, same end result. And you need magnetic bottles to move around plasma, which requires HUGE amounts of energy just to move the plasma around, not to mention burning it and projecting it at high speeds

[Iron Avenger]

God Of War, I will put this point simply, so that even YOU can understand it.

The WHOLE point of this thread is trying to figure out the physics behind the flamer, the exact mathematical precision behind its design and function. If you have a problem with this, I did not ask you to comment here.

[Iron Avenger]

Has anyone got any mathematical equations and/or true schematics of the flamer? Not even sarna.net has anything, I am hoping to find something.

[Jokerman]

I'm not even sure anyone has delved that deep into Flamer tech lore before...you may not be able to find anything...you may be paving new ground! going where no mechwarrior has gone before! You have a blank sciency canvas on which to paint your sci-fi math XD ...you could re-write the rules!

When I'm faced with not being able to find the info I need on sarna, I just throw up my hands and say "31st century"

[Iron Avenger]

I will do it, for....

[verybad]

Iron Avenger, on 10 August 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

God Of War, I will put this point simply, so that even YOU can understand it.

The WHOLE point of this thread is trying to figure out the physics behind the flamer, the exact mathematical precision behind its design and function. If you have a problem with this, I did not ask you to comment here.

The people that made the game (the original battletech) didn't try to figure out the physics behind the weapons or units. While your quest may be a noble one brave warrior, it is doomed to end in failure and despair.

Battletech physics is different from real physics. It's that simple.

[Fl3tcher]

Lets put it simply,

Reality does not apply here.

Am I right?

[Iron Avenger]

Well verybad, It is going to fail if all of you naysayers keep trying to close this thread. I am not gonna give up though, I will find out the physics behind it OR I WILL WRITE THE EQUATIONS MYSELF! And just because real physics don't apply in battletech doesn't mean I can't post this thread. I mean look at the energy weapons thread.

Edited by Iron Avenger, 10 August 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[Davidius]

I'd like to see the one realistic giant robot game where everyone instantly topples over

[AlphaKale]

If we want to do some preliminary handwaving regarding fuel, one possibility is that the flamer combines only some reactor plasma with a whole bunch of superheated air drawn in from the surroundings into a compressor. If I recall correctly, jump jets work in a similar manner. They pull air in from the surroundings, then heat it with the reactor to provide thrust. When jump jets are resetting they are actually drawing in a new supply of air and compressing it. Since flamers don't have to generate thrust, they can probably maintain a steady stream rather than the few-second bursts jump jets are capable of. Assuming this use of surrounding air, flamers would use trivial amounts of fuel to fire.

Davidius, on 10 August 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'd like to see the one realistic giant robot game where everyone instantly topples over

One thing I liked about the old Heavy Gear series is that most of the mechs weren't large enough to break physical laws for leg strength vs mass. The 'Gears' were all quite small compared to Battlemechs. On the other hand, stomping around in a multi-story tall robot is just cool.

[DrThunder18]

Maybe the reason for the long range is because the atmosphere on all the worlds is thinner than on earth. that is where all your comparison to RL is coming from. but if they have a lower oxygen content or the air is less dense it could (in theory) go farther.

and while we are on the subject, how did the death star bend the light from its primary weapon to refocus all the feeder beams into 1 main beam.

[Iron Avenger]

Alphakale, flamethrowers aren't jets, they don't pull in air, they are water cannons that use fuel instead of water that then set the fuel on fire. What you are suggesting is a steam cannon that uses heat from the reactor to heat air. As far as I know, air isn't flammable. And you are right, flamethrowers don't use thrust, they use pressure to pump out fuel.

DrThunder, I believe that the death star uses a focal lens that bends the light to all point in the same direction

[JFlash49]

Fiction...that is all...