52 replies to this topic

[Jack Gallows]

I'm wondering what people feel about the available tech for the Inner Sphere just prior to the Clan Invasion.

I myself believe it should be limited like it was a long time ago (before a lot of tech retcon), like how it appears in Lethal Heritage. No double heat sinks, ER tech, etc. I feel this would give a much better impact of how brutal the Clan Invasion really was, and would make salvaging tech and machinery really valuable and exciting. Also, victories over Clan units would also be cause for celebration.

It'd be fun to see how well us as players can really do against the Clans, and how different the invasion might go if we have to actually fight at a technical deficit in the early stages of the conflict.

Edited by jack gallows, 01 November 2011 - 01:14 PM.

[CloudCobra]

I hope this is the case. The difference between the Inner Sphere and the clans would seem trivial otherwise.

[Paladin1]

Per canon, only elite units had access to advanced tech during the early stages of the Clan War. It was already coming back, but unless you were a part of an elite regiment, you probably wouldn't be seeing much of it.

What does that mean to us? I'd expect to see advanced tech that was extremely expensive at first and possibly level locked in addition to cost.

[mbt201188]

I agree. The clans were an overwhelming onslaught. Should definitely feel the pressure being put on us when they show up.

[1453 R]

That depends entirely on how they work the Invasion. Do some players get to work in Stars with Invasion-era OmniMechs against my lances of Lethal Heritage-era IS tech? I like a challenge as much as the next guy, but let's face it - I'm not Kai Allard-Liao, nor Phelan Kell, and I'm going to assume with reasonable confidence that none of you are, either.

I love the BattleTech lore, I grew up on it, but the minute some little twelve year old ******* in a Timber Wolf gets to run roughshod over my entire lance because he's got twice the armor and three times the firepower of any machine in my unit without any mobility loss, I guarantee I'm gonna nerdrage. There's staying true to the lore, and then there's game balance. We don't have GMs to run the Clanners properly in an MMO.

[Paladin1]

Actually that doesn't have to be the case. A balancing system, like BV2, could be put in place so that this doesn't happen. Call it part of the bid down that goes on behind the scenes, but what it amounts too is that a full lance of Succession War-Era machines should only face two or three Clan designs at most and only then if they're not all Timber Wolves.

[Jesterix]

paladin1, on 01 November 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

Per canon, only elite units had access to advanced tech during the early stages of the Clan War. It was already coming back, but unless you were a part of an elite regiment, you probably wouldn't be seeing much of it.

What does that mean to us? I'd expect to see advanced tech that was extremely expensive at first and possibly level locked in addition to cost.

Considering my Vega background , we won't be seeing 2949 kit , Let alone 3049 kit. LOL

Jester

[Jack Gallows]

The bidding could make it quite interesting, to see how battles would turn out if the Clans bid a certain mechs and the IS match it with more numbers due to lesser tech. And to see what happens if/when IS doesn't follow the rules

[reinhardt steiner]

As Victor Steiner Davion quite rightly points out on Trell, the clans lose most of their advantage in close combat. The urban environments will help with this. The clans can be beaten. They should usually be outnumbered and although losses will be high for the IS, they can be taken down. The clans are most likely going to NPCs for the first couple of waves. They might even be NPCs all they way until Tukayid. That would give us all plenty of time to get a hold of some clan tech.

[Paladin1]

Jesterix, on 01 November 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

Considering my Vega background , we won't be seeing 2949 kit , Let alone 3049 kit. LOL

Jester

lol

You're lucky to have `Mechs, much less advanced tech, right? Glad to see a Legion of Vega fan here, they don't get much love now days.

[mithril coyote]

even with the minor retcons to tech introduction dates, the reality is that most of the 'advanced tech' of the clan invasion period wasn't common until the first shipments of refit kits arrived in 3051ish. until then, you had mass numbers of 3025 era units, and small numbers of units using the advanced tech. and most of those were extensive redesigns or outright new designs.

the refit kits were generally not very good over all. often just weapon swaps, with the downside of making the design less effective in terms of heat.

[Jack Gallows]

reinhardt steiner, on 01 November 2011 - 01:40 PM, said:

As Victor Steiner Davion quite rightly points out on Trell, the clans lose most of their advantage in close combat. The urban environments will help with this. The clans can be beaten. They should usually be outnumbered and although losses will be high for the IS, they can be taken down. The clans are most likely going to NPCs for the first couple of waves. They might even be NPCs all they way until Tukayid. That would give us all plenty of time to get a hold of some clan tech.

I think having them be NPC's is a bad idea. Many of the gamers going up against them are going to rip NPC's to shreds, especially with group tactics.

I'd rather see them select some players/internal staff help act as the first wave before being opened up to the rest of the players, so we actually get a **** good and hard fight. You're right though, the urban settings should really help the IS negate the benefits of Clan ranged weaponry.

[SquareSphere]

I hope they don't go too out of control with the weapon/tech advances. That arms race to pack in more "new stuff" is what lead to the Jihad.

[Andrew Harvey]

Considering the Helm Memory Core, we actually have a lot more in the way of new technology than people may expect. The Inner Sphere actually rediscovers quite a lot of technology before the Clan Invasion:

3033:
-TAG
3035:
-Ultra-AC/5
-LB 10-X AC
-Narc Beacon
-Streak SRM-2
-Artemis IV
-Endo Steel
-Extra-Light Engine
-MASC
3036:
-CASE
3037:
-Small Pulse Laser
-Medium Pulse Laser
-Large Pulse Laser
-ER Large Laser
-ER PPC
3040:
-Gauss Rifle
-Anti-Missile System
-Double Heat Sink
-Ferro-Fibrous Armor
3045:
-Guardian ECM
-Beagle Active Probe

Now granted, a lot of this newly discovered technology is still very rare and expensive, and few units receive access to it. In the game, it'll probably take a lot of training/money to use this equipment. But IS technology is not so rock-bottom medieval as some people may think.

In some instances, I suspect this low-tech approach will be a blessing. More advanced equipment will be more difficult and more expensive to repair and maintain. That means that Clan Omnimechs will have much higher upkeep costs than lower-tech Inner Sphere Battlemechs for whom replacement parts are much easier to find and purchase. Also, a majority of Clan 'Mechs make use of XL Engines. While this gives them a larger weapon load, it also gives them a weak point; their engines can be damaged by penetrating the Left or Right Torso. Most Inner Sphere 'Mechs at this point use Standard Engines which, while heavier, can only be damaged through the Center Torso. I don't doubt that there'll be many Clan Mechwarriors cursing Hunchbacks who took them out in a urban battle because of that difference.

[Jack Gallows]

I'm assuming you may have gone on Sarna.net, which is still a great site, but most of that tech really doesn't become viable or usable until AFTER the Clans Invade, and some only appears beforehand because of retcons. Hell, all or most of the 3035 stuff is never really seen until a Clan mech gets salvaged or shoots someone with the weapons on the list.

There shouldn't be almost any of this prior to the Clan Invasion.

[Andrew Harvey]

jack gallows, on 01 November 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

I'm assuming you may have gone on Sarna.net, which is still a great site, but most of that tech really doesn't become viable or usable until AFTER the Clans Invade, and some only appears beforehand because of retcons. Hell, all or most of the 3035 stuff is never really seen until a Clan mech gets salvaged or shoots someone with the weapons on the list.

There shouldn't be almost any of this prior to the Clan Invasion.

Well Comstar was giving the Draconis Combine Star League-era Battlemechs left and right, and in some cases forgetting to remove 'sensitive' equipment like Endo-Steel and Case. It's pretty canon that the Federated Commonwealth was hard pressed by the DCMS during the War of 3039 partly because of those advanced mechs, and I don't think it's such a stretch to think that some of that rediscovered technology was helped into production by reverse-engineering those examples. 'Mechs making use of new technology like the Capellan Raven and FedCom Devastator were also being produced before the Clan Invasion.

If you're arguing that almost all of that equipment is not in general use then I'd agree. In fact, most of it probably isn't seen outside of scientific institutions like NAIS. But the point I was trying to make was that it isn't lostech anymore, and hasn't been long enough that we might be able to use some of it in the year we'll have before the Clan Invasion.

[Jack Gallows]

andrew harvey, on 01 November 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

If you're arguing that almost all of that equipment is not in general use then I'd agree. In fact, most of it probably isn't seen outside of scientific institutions like NAIS. But the point I was trying to make was that it isn't lostech anymore, and hasn't been long enough that we might be able to use some of it in the year we'll have before the Clan Invasion.

I'm mostly pointing out how rare it'd be, and really feel it should be incredibly limited or just mostly left out. If it is in, it needs to be incredibly hard to obtain and maintain, as most techs wouldn't know *** to do with most of it should it be damaged. Supply would most likely be low.

[Darklord]

When the Clans came in they were designed for 1v1 while IS was still fighting as wolf packs so the
clan tech had to be much better.
Do you really think besides us hardcore BT players will stay with the Clan 1v1 mech battles or do you see abunch of gamers going over to the Clan side and just laying waste to the battlefield?


DL

[Andrew Harvey]

jack gallows, on 01 November 2011 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm mostly pointing out how rare it'd be, and really feel it should be incredibly limited or just mostly left out. If it is in, it needs to be incredibly hard to obtain and maintain, as most techs wouldn't know *** to do with most of it should it be damaged. Supply would most likely be low.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that early on the skill requirements for installing [let alone using] equipment like that are going to be obscene. I don't know how they plan on modeling tech-required actions like repairs and modifications, but those skills are going to have to come from somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if equipment like that was used as a reward in some way though; capture the base intact = you find a cache of Medium Pulse Lasers!

[Jack Gallows]

Just don't remember anyone using anything remotely like the Clan tech for the longest time, even in the novels, until the Clans actually invaded. No pulse tech, no Gauss tech, no double heat sink, LB/X or Ultra tech, none of it. Even Phelan Kell, in one of the best equipped merc units of the time didn't have any of this when he was taken by Clan Wolf in the early fighting of the Invasion. They point out quite often how utterly superior clan tech is, and how surprised they are when they are getting slammed by enemy fire WAAAY out of range and at a much higher rate of fire then an IS mech could produce.