97 replies to this topic

[Woodstock]

Randomly.

And when you think of the design element involved here if its a city scape with blocks ... then dropping different city blocks in should be relatively painless.

In rural areas though how would it work? You have a number of set contoured 'bald' maps divided into grids and then you drop different structures and scenery onto it? so a wood here ... farm there ... factory over there? etc?

I play World of Tanks a fair but and the set maps ...no matter how beautifully they are rendered get sooooo repetitive!

Woodstock (Rik)

Edited by woodstock, 02 November 2011 - 04:19 AM.

[VoxeL]

I think it is possible to realize both directions.

Pre-generated maps are more balanced and can be more interesting in terms of gameplay. But they may get bored after a long time, or if their will not be enough.

Randomly maps are interesting because they can add the element of surprise and unpredictability, and it provides variety. Probably you have heard of the Great Korean Random. Therefore, we must be cautious with the generation of maps. All in the hands of developers.

Edited by VoxeL, 03 November 2011 - 06:25 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Random maps may be difficult simply because of the vast diversity seen across the Inner Sphere and Periphery. In order to best show the cultural differences pre-mades would be the best bet. Fighting over Outpost rocks may allow for randomness to occur without the balance issue being to much of a stickler.

Our single planet alone has some very diversified and culturally unique cities. Imagine that on a Galactic scale.

[McCaffrey]

I would be in favor for set maps, but with varying spawn points, weather conditions, etc.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Nothing like having lot a match before it starts due to the random number generator. Dealing with flawing match making is frustrating enough without adding one sided maps to it.

[omegaclawe]

I would certainly prefer randomly seeded terrain, but this can be rather difficult to code. Making the maps by hand is honestly far easier, and avoids the potential balance problems by an uneven generation. Still, if they know how to make a good algorithm for it, they had damned well better.

[Maverick Howell]

Any maps for MLG should be set in stone and be the same. But the nice thing about randomly generated maps is that you never know whats just around the corner you don't know where they might come from because everything is so foreign to you. personally i think that spices the game play up and causes you to think on your feet.

[Grimjax]

It all depends on what they want to accomplish...

Campaigns = premades
Random Match assignments = random maps

The best would be to create some premade objective maps, that would use skewed random terrain maps around it. By skewed I mean if the objective is in an urban setting it might have some random urban maps and maybe a couple of light terrain maps(City Parks, Water landmarks). Once an objective was decided it would use a random selection of maps that are designed for that objective.

[Brixx]

In my opinion a map need to be as balanced as the rest of the game. Especially in conquest... I am not so sure if a random generator would do the job. Therefore I shalt vote for premade maps.

[Gray Death]

I think a combination would be best. Static maps are great, but they eliminate exploration and lead to everyone running the most efficient path every time. Random maps allow for exploration and adaptation gameplay to a new environment, both of which are completely lost with static maps. I would rank quick adaptation to new environments much higher than learning one level and playing it over and over.

[Brixx]

Gray Death, on 03 November 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

I think a combination would be best. Static maps are great, but they eliminate exploration and lead to everyone running the most efficient path every time. Random maps allow for exploration and adaptation gameplay to a new environment, both of which are completely lost with static maps. I would rank quick adaptation to new environments much higher than learning one level and playing it over and over.

Like stated above I am just worried about the balance. I am totally in for balance. Only a game with a perfect balance keeps players playing it. Without it people while whine and quit. Therefore imho randomly generated maps really have to have a perfect algorithm or whatever to really keep it balanced. Or else I think we will see a lot of ragequits and boring, one-sided gameplay.

[Gray Death]

Brixx, on 03 November 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:

Like stated above I am just worried about the balance. I am totally in for balance. Only a game with a perfect balance keeps players playing it. Without it people while whine and quit. Therefore imho randomly generated maps really have to have a perfect algorithm or whatever to really keep it balanced. Or else I think we will see a lot of ragequits and boring, one-sided gameplay.

I'm saying both should be included. You will have your static maps, others will have their random maps. If you ragequit because of a map, only play the static maps you are familiar with. Choice is golden. Creating a generator to setup pinch points, light cover, heavy cover, distance to specific features for each side is not difficult. I find static balanced maps boring and tend to move on to other titles because of the repetition of static environments.

Edited by Gray Death, 03 November 2011 - 11:15 AM.

[mbt201188]

Well honestly as cool as randomly generated maps would be I highly doubt it would work right. Eventually every map would feel the same anyway because you've seen something similar before. That and you couldn't get major cities and bases that are majestic or unique enough with randomly generated maps.

[Grimjax]

mbt201188, on 03 November 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

Well honestly as cool as randomly generated maps would be I highly doubt it would work right. Eventually every map would feel the same anyway because you've seen something similar before. That and you couldn't get major cities and bases that are majestic or unique enough with randomly generated maps.

... and that is the reason you would also have premade maps for those major cities and bases. The random maps will add alot more replayability to the game. It all depends how much they want this game to scale. You build as much flexibility into the game engine now, so you don't have to say later that we screwed up and designed a game that can't scale. Many games fail from the shortsightedness of the Dev team while in the design phase. If they plan now for where they would like to go, they can still impliment what they have time for now but they will be ble to continue to grow later.

[Lori Carlyle]

Random, if that random doesn't work in your favor or gives an unbalanced footing... meh.

Edited by Lori Carlyle, 03 November 2011 - 02:11 PM.

[Brixx]

Gray Death, on 03 November 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

I'm saying both should be included. You will have your static maps, others will have their random maps. If you ragequit because of a map, only play the static maps you are familiar with. Choice is golden. Creating a generator to setup pinch points, light cover, heavy cover, distance to specific features for each side is not difficult. I find static balanced maps boring and tend to move on to other titles because of the repetition of static environments.

Yeah... but how would tell most of the players when they are forced into a position where they do have a difficult stand? I mean... I would be upset if I was in a vallye while the other team is sniping us down from mountains etc... Or things like that. Well... it would for sure be more interesting though... you made think of it twice. But still... really depends on how they solve this random generation. I wouldn´t mind this in a single player game... but a Multiplayer game with stats etc? I mean... who wants his statistics ruined by an unfair environment?

Don´t get me wrong but I think a lot people will care about statistics and just quit if they get into a situation like this. :-/

[Kumakichi]

Aidan, on 01 November 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

I highly doubt PGI will be creating random map generation algorithms.

That does sound like a bit much. Especially considering they are releasing this game without single player campaign or coop play due to time constraints and resources.

Edited by Kumakichi, 03 November 2011 - 02:51 PM.

[MaddMaxx]

Kumakichi, on 03 November 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

That does sound like a bit much. Especially considering they are releasing this game without single player campaign or coop play due to time constraints and resources.

You can download a Random Map generating Algorithm for FREE from the Net. It would not take a Dev long to adapt a decent one to their needs. A they say, it isn't "Rocket Science" it is "Math Science".

[Aidan]

MaddMaxx, on 03 November 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

You can download a Random Map generating Algorithm for FREE from the Net. It would not take a Dev long to adapt a decent one to their needs. A they say, it isn't "Rocket Science" it is "Math Science".

MaddMaxx,

Have you ever created a level for a video game such as MechWarrior? I have. I am currently an MWLL community created map designer/creator and the former Head of Level Design for the MechWarrior Living Legends Mod. If you have, I am sure you would know why random generation of maps would only really begin to work for purely outdoor environments. The creation of a map or level can be as simple as randomly creating terrain elevations and then applying some terrain textures and vegetation. Or a very complex level using 3D models with textures applied, lighting techniques, water placement, urban landscapes, Dynamic Time of Day, logical linking of map entities depending on the game mode, flowgraph and scripting, particle effects, etc etc. To be able to create algorithms to do all of this randomly would be a significant undertaking. I do not think randomly generated maps can bring to the player the feeling of immersion into another world as a finely crafted map can do.

[omegaclawe]

Er... Randomly generated cities are quite possible, too. Just a different algorithm. The idea would more or less to define your streets/alleyways/blocks, Then fill the blocks with buildings, parks, what have you.

Edited by omegaclawe, 03 November 2011 - 04:15 PM.