97 replies to this topic

[Redraider]

Make extremely large maps and the random part is the section of the map you are playing on. Then you have an idea of what you want to take into the battle but no exact location of where contact would be made so no ability to perfectly customize your force to the terrain.

Edited by Redraider, 04 November 2011 - 10:23 AM.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Aegis Kleais™, on 04 November 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

I'm not big on random terrain because that takes away the tactical advantage of terrain awareness.

You mean it takes away your memorized flowchart.

Redraider, on 04 November 2011 - 10:22 AM, said:

Make extremely large maps and the random part is the section of the map you are playing on. Then you have an idea of what you want to take into the battle but no exact location of where contact would be made so no ability to perfectly customize your force to the terrain.

Covered by planet type, terrain type and time of day (optionally atmospheric parameters and sun class for planetoids and such).

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 04 November 2011 - 10:27 AM.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Aegis Kleais™, on 04 November 2011 - 10:30 AM, said:

No, I mean what I said.

When you are familiar with the terrain, you are familiar with what tactical advantages you can take. If you're overheating and know where a pool of water is, you can move to it. If you need to get a height advantage, you know where those locations lie. If there are chokepoints due to the formation of the terrain, you can be tactically aware of them.

A crucial aspect of a MechWarrior is to remain fluid and to maintain battlefield awareness not only for mechanized threats, but for anything that can give that pilot an advantage over their enemies.

And random placements affect this how exactly?
Just fire up your orbital shots and see what's where.

Now this would be fluid.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 04 November 2011 - 10:38 AM.

[PK Violence]

UncleKulikov, on 01 November 2011 - 02:12 PM, said:

Random should be deployed for casual matches for fun.

Ranked and tournament matches should be on premade, equivalent maps.

That the answer for me as well. I would hate to have to deal with all the, "You only beat us because the map gened in your favor." but random maps as an option on open play... could get some fun scenarios for sure.

One vote for a chooseable option.

[Razor Kotovsky]

=PK= Violence, on 04 November 2011 - 10:37 AM, said:

That the answer for me as well. I would hate to have to deal with all the, "You only beat us because the map gened in your favor." but random maps as an option on open play... could get some fun scenarios for sure.

One vote for a chooseable option.

There was a suggestion with premade maps for valuable territory. Capitals, spaceports and such.

P.S.: Gladiator weights 95 irrc.

[Ennui]

Definitely would rather have premade maps than procedurally generated ones. Having pre-built maps allows for

- greater tactical depth to gameplay due to map knowledge / battlefield awareness as Aegis calls it
- greater tactical/strategic power on behalf of the game designers to dictate the terms and type of engagement on each map
- vastly more realistic, detailed, and well-formed environments (handmade maps are always going to be more detailed and thought out than even the most complex procedural terrain generation process)

[Razor Kotovsky]

Aegis Kleais™, on 04 November 2011 - 10:42 AM, said:

random spawning points (still opposing sides) would, IMO, better address this than hoping the computer randomly generates non-biased terrain layouts.

Is this a troll?

WELL **** IT LET'S MIRROR ALL THE MAPS AND PLACE A TRENCH IN BETWEEN
THAT SHOULD SOLVE THE BIAS PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL

Ennui, on 04 November 2011 - 10:46 AM, said:

- vastly more realistic, detailed, and well-formed environments (handmade maps are always going to be more detailed and thought out than even the most complex procedural terrain generation process)

I hate to break it to you but the entire Earth was procedurally generated.

The matrix had us all along.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 04 November 2011 - 10:49 AM.

[PK Violence]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 10:40 AM, said:

There was a suggestion with premade maps for valuable territory. Capitals, spaceports and such.

P.S.: Gladiator weights 95 irrc.

Yes but the seriousness of the mach should determine the entire map... not just sections. Just my view...

P.S. I am 100 tons of overkill.... no mater what I drive. (It's a quote from the cover of the first boxed MW released... i think.)

[Red Beard]

gregsolidus, on 01 November 2011 - 02:53 PM, said:

Random maps will never have the same spark as a well made,hand crafted one.

This. Wars are won because those that know the terrain benefit from being able to USE the terrain against their opponent.

[omegaclawe]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 10:47 AM, said:

I hate to break it to you but the entire Earth was procedurally generated.

Yes, but it is voxel-based and took roughly 4 billion years with real-time generation. All of these are outside the realm of PGI's coding abilities.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Well we aren't discussing a geodesic simulator here.
If people want to play the same maps over again it's cool.

But i'm personally fed up with it and this looks like a suitable game to implement some variety.

Aegis Kleais™, on 04 November 2011 - 10:49 AM, said:

Please watch the accusations. People like you who go around calling others trolls are useless to a community-condusive forum. I am going to add you to the ignored users list simply because I feel like I might just be arguing with someone who is not of a needed maturity level. Feel free to continue, but this kind of immaturity won't be reciprocated.

Achievement "(95% -1) to alienate" unlocked!

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 04 November 2011 - 11:16 AM.

[JackSparrow]

Not sure if its been mentioned..but in urban landscapes it would be nice if structures could show dmg? For instance, the need for careful movement inside urban warfare as to not give way your location as a scout tries to detect movement.

[Aidan]

Ennui, on 04 November 2011 - 10:46 AM, said:

Definitely would rather have premade maps than procedurally generated ones. Having pre-built maps allows for

- greater tactical depth to gameplay due to map knowledge / battlefield awareness as Aegis calls it
- greater tactical/strategic power on behalf of the game designers to dictate the terms and type of engagement on each map
- vastly more realistic, detailed, and well-formed environments (handmade maps are always going to be more detailed and thought out than even the most complex procedural terrain generation process)

^^ This. Good points Ennui.

[Captain Fabulous]

To those who are still arguing about tactics and consistency, *PLEASE* look at these. A mix is better than one of them.

Captain Fabulous, on 01 November 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

This question is really much more complex than I initially thought. When I think pre-made maps and multiplayer, I think of games like Halo where you get your choice of 10-12 maps (don't quote me on numbers, I've played Halo maybe 4 times), but every single time they're the exact same. It gets too easy to simply memorize the maps and figure out the best places to be. Therefore I voted for the randomization aspect. This of course raises the problem of balancing sides to make sure no one team has an immediate terrain advantage over another. I feel like the best option is for a combination of both: Take premade maps, but allow for a randomized dynamic. For a city level for example, have buildings change heights, roads get blocked at certain points and opened up in others, additional buildings, or different weather.

This could give players like me who don't like grinding through the same maps over and over a decent change of pace while keeping players who DO like the static maps the consistency that they want.

Owl Cutter, on 02 November 2011 - 04:11 AM, said:

In a perfect world, we'd get a mixture of both. There's a world of difference between playing in a place as familiar as your backyard and playing in a place you've never been at all, and they are both experiences I'd like to have in a Mechwarrior game. It's unlikely Piranha is implementing both, so I guess the best that might plausibly be is playfields generated by pseudorandomised arrangement of blocks, probably Sim City-like tiles but hopefully not just squares.

I want familiar places we can all share and refer to like in most online games, such as Unreal's "Deck 16" or Halo's "Gulch," and think it would be really nice for every player to have one of these places as their "home" location, in which they can choose to participate in defense mission. On the other hand, interstellar mercenaries should probably be seeing totally unfamiliar battlefields for most campaigns and vastly varied tile-based maps are a great part of classic tactical games like Starcraft. I'd also like generated playfields for the same reason I like them in MegaMek; it just makes for more replay value.

With Lego-together city blocks, it would be possible to have static configurations for a faction's "home turf" or maybe even an individual guild for more realistic unfamiliarity when attacking some one else on a world you've never been to, and realistic familiarity for a unit stationed right on top of the point of contention.

P.S. Catching up on the thread, I am very pleased to see a strong showing of people thinking the same thing as I. Maybe it's a more plausible possibility than I though.

[torgian]

Why not have both created maps AND random maps?

/end thread

[That Guy]

I would vote for "both", but if i had to go for one random generation. if the meat and potatos of this game is going to be the planet capture/territory control, its dumb to have fixed maps.

random generation can be well done, and adds more need for groups to work together and do pre-mission planning. you just need a data base of objects and some algorithms for where and how they are placed. sure, with random generation you loose some of the polish of hand made maps, but those will get old.

the best option, some handmade maps for the DM type games, and more "fun" scenarios wile random generation for the "real" missions and warfare/planet capture

[Big Red]

CoffiNail, on 01 November 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

attack the starport of said city on said planet... why would it be changing every few days.

I would love set maps for specific places but random for 75-90% of a planet's surface.

I would ABSOLUTELY love maps that show battle damage from previous fights.

[Thomas Covenant]

I think random generation is the future of gaming.

Artist do great stuff but even Skyrim gets old. There is also plenty of room for artists to make medium and large scale elements for generated maps.