277 replies to this topic

[Gruftherrscher]

when I was young, playing a game on pc ment to draw something in paint.
best old game ever (stable, funny, neverending).
Some people reached lvl 9999 there ; )
watch this:

[Aescwulf]

I've noticed a drop in quality of computer games one game that made me realise it and that was Final Fantasy 13 my friends were hyped up about it so much that when they got it and started to play they never uttered a word about it and it was me saying " wow talking about restrictive roaming about" and I eventually played it but couldn't continue because it was linear as hell for an RPG.

I never play a game because of their graphics I play a game if I'm interested in the subject at hand. And I like story within games also. But now I am seeing myself move away from AAA titles because to me they always seem unfinished . Now I play indie games and you know what they are fun and creative games and if you search hard enough you will find yourself a little gem.

I played a demo for Transformers Fall of Cybertron and I enjoyed that so I will be getting that and the game play is decent.

[Adridos]

Not everything before was good, just like not everything today is bad.

For instance, there were many games just completely copying success of something else (oh, the millions of AoE clones).
Or games that only wanted to make the best graphics possible, completely forgetting they're games.
And hype worked back then as well, just it's results had a few good sides (Starcraft).

As for the defense of today, games like Torchlight, Minecraft, Witcher and others are very good, despite the age they were developed in.

[Gingo]

Dragonlord, on 13 August 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Is there anything we as gamers can do about it?

Buy Indie. Use and donate for Free games.
Never buy EA, or Ubisoft or Activision. Avoid SOE when possible (that being debatable. I still hold a grudge over SWG)

Crankwerk, on 13 August 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Kickstarter [...] is also used now as free PR for almost or finished products..

Thats actually positive, since a lot of devs are presenting their first game on there. By having it nearly finished when starting the kickstarter, they get additional time to work on it and the consumer has the safety to know that it will probably get finished.


What I can recommend if you are fed up with bad games:
Start programming. I recommend Python.
It's what I've done. Maybe you'll see a game from me in a few years

[CSHubert]

I recall a story about a bet made between a production director and a marketing manager. The story goes that the marketing manager claimed he could sell the waste material from the main production only by advertising agressively enough. The production director said it couldnt be done and lost the bet. Now noone in the younger generation remembers the Kinderegg, but the Kinder Milchschnitte (the waste material).

Its not about the contents of the game anymore, guys. - Its about harvesting the big bucks and when people starts complaining, you release a fix or better... a DLC that cost more...
Im an old school gamer too, longing for the days with UFO, Homeworld and all of the games where the contens was better than the wrapping. But times have changed. The gaming industry isnt about geeks making a great game anymore. Its educated pros making a fortune in a short amount of time, not for them, you or me having fun, but for the money. Sounds pretty bleak doesnt it ?
Im quite positive though. The XCOM is being made by geek anachronist so that could work. MWO strikes me as a geek project (that was a cudo) so there is light. Hope that the money doesnt bring the good idea down like another free-to-play game about some armoured fighting vehicles...

[MarshmallowRampage]

Its due to the fact that every gaming platform is now hooked up to the internet which gives developers the lazy option of "Oh we will fix it in a patch when the game goes live"

[Algorhythmic]

Nitsua Asuka, on 13 August 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

I've noticed a drop in quality of computer games one game that made me realise it and that was Final Fantasy 13 my friends were hyped up about it so much that when they got it and started to play they never uttered a word about it and it was me saying " wow talking about restrictive roaming about" and I eventually played it but couldn't continue because it was linear as hell for an RPG.

I never play a game because of their graphics I play a game if I'm interested in the subject at hand. And I like story within games also. But now I am seeing myself move away from AAA titles because to me they always seem unfinished . Now I play indie games and you know what they are fun and creative games and if you search hard enough you will find yourself a little gem.

I played a demo for Transformers Fall of Cybertron and I enjoyed that so I will be getting that and the game play is decent.

Square Enix is stagnant. So is EA, so is Activision Blizzard. Move on to better things. Good on you for playing demo first, seems like most of these guys like to just take a gamble and complain if it doesn't go well.

Edited by IlIlI, 13 August 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[Adridos]

IlIlI, on 13 August 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Good on you for playing demo first, seems like most of these guys like to just take a gamble and complain if it doesn't go well.

Just as a matter of fact, the ammount of demos is so huge that people swarm sites like Piratebay to try the game out.

There are almost no demos for AAA games... and for a good reason (at least from the publisher management perspective).

[DragonsMaster]

Anixantheas, on 13 August 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Loved a lot of the old games. Been raiding my old games bin in the storage room and trying to get any of them to work. Dosbox is my friend.

Still waiting on:
Master of Magic 2
Alpha Centauri 2
A GOOD sequel to Master of Orion
Older games like "Star Command" or "Alien Legacy"
Dangit, I want to see a good old fashion Sierra game like Leisure Suit Larry or Space Quest

Have to agree on the Master of Orion 2 and Alpha Centauri, Loved those games. Since we are here pining for the good old days of awesome in depth, decent length (because you didn't have unlimited pocket money and could only afford maybe one game every 2-3 months) I'm going to throw my 2 cents in.

Games I want to see re-done PROPERLY (and production houses i want back)
BULLFROG: These guys made in what is my mind 2 of the greatest game series of all time
1. Syndicate
2. Dungeon Keeper 1 & 2

LOOKING GLASS STUDIOS (which has since become yet another part of EA's TITANIC A$$)
1. Terra Nova
2. Thief 1&2

Now a LOT of people in these forums in my age group (25-35) will remember many of these fondly, Syndicate had me gripped for hours and i would KILL for a proper new instalment. Granted in it's day it was the biggest PITA to get running as was pure DOS and requiring every iota of memory you could squeeze out of your 486 or if you were lucky your 586 pentium 1 and it was the first game i ever remember having a CG opening. But it was very awesome and still holds its own playability wise.
And as for DK I suspect many member of these forums probably spent a whole several months of their youth or at the very least many late nights playing these awesome games there may be some hope for DK thanks to minecraft's developer notch but i doubt EA could extract their collective heads from their A$$ in order to make it happen as the wouldn't want some actually competent indie developer actually doing a good job on an IP they want to screw up and milk for themselves.
In other news for DK lovers there is a chance as subterranean games are making some headway with a fan made DK variant you can check out what they are up to here and here. I wish them all the best.

Now who remembers Terranova: Strike force centauri? If you don't and are a retro geek or just love mechwarrior style games then you should check it out and find an abandonware copy asap. It was awesome, You are literally running around in what is basically an elemental on one of the planets around alpha centauri, Heck the suits could almost be pre-cursors to the elemental suits. There are 3 types Heavy medium and scout and several variants and lots of different weapons, you had a team with a detailed control system and a not so stupid AI. the graphics were pretty good for it's day and the story EXCELLENT. I highly recommend it to any Mekhead.

To sum up "Sequals can be good if done right" (Thief and DKII are prime examples) but only when they are lovingly crafted by a team who gives a cr4p and by a company that isn't out to milk every last cent they can possibly wring from a game and instead actually wants to make something people can enjoy. I think the best thing that could happen to the industry is a horrible psycotic photocopier accident in EA's boardroom that ended with it spitting back out clean and unscathed all the awesome publishers it swallowed into it's bloated pus filled festering ***, but like hell that is going to happen. Crap games are here to stay, as long as they are making money hand over fist pandering to the lowest common denominator they will keep using the churn and burn strategy. All we can do is vote with our feet and support projects and games that are actually good and hope they don't get corporate sharked by one of the big studios.
:ENDRANT:
Sorry but i feel a bit strongly about this.
Have a good evening guys. Look forward to seeing you on the battlefield.

[Bansheedragon75]

IlIlI, on 13 August 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Square Enix is stagnant. So is EA, so is Activision Blizzard. Move on to better things. Good on you for playing demo first, seems like most of these guys like to just take a gamble and complain if it doesn't go well.

How do you play a demo for a game when none is available?
Especially with newly released or soon to be released games.

I can use LoP as an example again.
The game was developed, there was gameplay videos and trailers, but there was never any announced beta of the game and no demo was ever available.

LoP is not a game from EA, Blizzard or whatever major company you dont like.
I had not even heard of Kalypso before I saw LoP.

Same goes for most games released today, there are rarely any demos available.
So how can you then determine hoe good the game is without buying it?

[Algorhythmic]

Adridos, on 13 August 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Just as a matter of fact, the ammount of demos is so huge that people swarm sites like Piratebay to try the game out.

There are almost no demos for AAA games... and for a good reason (at least from the publisher management perspective).

Then you watch a Let's Play ___ video.

Dragonlord, on 13 August 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

How do you play a demo for a game when none is available?
Especially with newly released or soon to be released games.

I can use LoP as an example again.
The game was developed, there was gameplay videos and trailers, but there was never any announced beta of the game and no demo was ever available.

LoP is not a game from EA, Blizzard or whatever major company you dont like.
I had not even heard of Kalypso before I saw LoP.

Same goes for most games released today, there are rarely any demos available.
So how can you then determine hoe good the game is without buying it?

I watched a Let's Play of Legend of Pegasus. It looked pretty weak, so I didn't get it.

[bryo4321]

In my opinion, a lot of people just remember playing games when they were kids/teens, so they have a lot of nostalgic memories, and it creates a sort of bias that, bah everything sucks now. Just ask your parents about your music, it's a similar deal to that.
That is only part of it though. There are games like Red Orchestra 2 being released completely broken, but then it gets fixed 6 months later form patches

[Sephlock]

It was graphics. engines got better and better and required more and more resources/time/etc to make things prettier and prettier.... and all of that has to come from somewhere, and at the expense of something...

[Dervim]

Dragonlord, on 13 August 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

All these responses here has given me some good insight into what and where things went downhill.

But it brings up another question.

Is there anything we as gamers can do about it?
Some way to influence the market to get the big guys to see that there could be an even bigger reward that would be well worth it if the are just willing to take the risk?

Well for one, we could, all just stop being such an idiots and STOP GIVING AWAY OUR MONEY FOR HALF BACKED PRODUCTS AND DAY ONE DLCS!*takes air* Second, as mentioned indie games. There are plenty of awesome and amazingly complex games out there that almost cost almost nothing(and it's a crime not to buy one of those indie bundles). Help them out, so that they can help us out with a much needed quality game fix. Then there are youtube channels with reviews and common sense( The Angry Joe Show is particularly funny and informative one )... And then there are file sharing services...Consider it as extended beta. When you have doubts-go for it, try a game and if you like it-buy, if it's a crap-forget it! But the bottom line is-STOP THROWING YOUR MONEY AT THOSE MONEY GRABBING ********!*takes air* Otherwise, they'll keep releasing half-baked products, while cutting them up for DLCs and selling them separately for additional money grabbing. Of course, all of that would only work in ideal world, where the majority of gaming community would not consist of "console kiddies" and where FBI would not arrest you for piracy...

[Algorhythmic]

bryo4321, on 13 August 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

In my opinion, a lot of people just remember playing games when they were kids/teens, so they have a lot of nostalgic memories, and it creates a sort of bias that, bah everything sucks now. Just ask your parents about your music, it's a similar deal to that.
That is only part of it though. There are games like Red Orchestra 2 being released completely broken, but then it gets fixed 6 months later form patches

There are 2 games that I play even now from the old days and I want newer versions of them. Master of Orion 2 and Mechcommander.

I would pay $200 for updated versions of either of these games.

[Kenyon Burguess]

production issues are one problem but when it comes to online games, gamer population FUBAR's everything. the game might be stable on dev, stable on alpha and beta servers, but with each larger population that gets added to a game it becomes a bit more unstable. by the time you get to live release there is no telling what kinds of issues will crop up. games like MWO have come up with a good way to handle this with the founders program. hopefully come live release day we wont have any of the issues alot of the other games have suffered

[Bansheedragon75]

IlIlI, on 13 August 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I watched a Let's Play of Legend of Pegasus. It looked pretty weak, so I didn't get it.

My issue with LOP specifically was not with the gameplay, but the insane amount of gamebreaking bugs that had not been fixed prior to release.
Bugs that would have been discovered had they done some proper testing of the game before rushing it out.

And the Lets Play videos you talk about, I watched a few of them and I dont find them very useful, because they only show you what the person making the video shows you.
No matter how many videos you watch, it can never replace actual experience.
If there was a demo I could make my own opinion of the game.
I cant do that with a video as it dont give any impression of the actual gameplay, the way personal experience does.

[Company Man]

I started in the video game business in 1986. I left it in 1995. I worked 100+ hour weeks every year and shipping 15 products from start to finish, produced a handful and managed nearly 40 games to market. At least one of which, I know nearly every person on the planet has played or seen played in some form of today. Even with my track record, I never experienced a moment of loyalty, honesty or character in any form of management involved in the business.

By 1991 the industry was large enough and forecasted to generate $5B per year in sales in the coming years. By 1992 the TV and Movie business moved into the game industry and acquired some of the strongest players. Some of my former employer's acquired a couple of companies and in turn were acquired by large entertainment concerns like VIACOM.

The entertainment business has generated some of the worst executive management and oversight in the history of corporations. We used to receive anywhere from 200 to 2,000 PC game concepts a year depending on company. Any number of which would have been smash hits had they received even $100,000 worth of 1990 dollars to explore as a concept.

A lot has been said about quality, delivery method, etc. I just wanted to chime in that overall, I can't name a single CEO or Executive Producer in the business that I would trust to hold my lunch bucket.

[Nesij]

Later half of 90s were imo the best gaming years I have ever witnessed...
Today my only hope is on resurgence of indies and crowfunding.

Years 1996-2000 (Hard to compare this to 2006-2010):

Planescape: Torment (best game ever?) Die by the Sword Dungeon Keeper 1-2 RollerCoaster Tycoon
Fallout 1-2 Dune 2000 Hexen 2 Medal of Honor
Sacrifice Mech Commander Quake 2-3 ISS Pro Evolution
Deus Ex (another contender) Mech Warrior 2-3 Unreal 1-Tournament Messiah
HomeWorld Metal Gear Solid GTA 1-2 Giants
Age of Empires 1-2 System Shock 2 Starcraft Metal Slugs
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (best i played) Oddworld Series Diablo 1-2 MDK 1-2
Total Annihilation Panzer Commander The Last Express Shenmue
Shogun Total War Ceaser III The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall Outcast
Thief 1-2 Populous the Beginning Gran Turismo 1-2 The Longest Journey
Carmageddon Soul Calibur Legacy of Cain Klingon Academy
Tekken 2-3 Grim Fandango Star Trek: Voyager Elite Force Civilization 2
Interstate' 76 Sim City 3000 Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 Chrono Cross
Tomb Raider 1-3 Railroad Tycoon II Falcon 4.0 Golden Eye 007
Half Life Baldurs Gate 1-2 Starsiege: Tribes Ocarina of Time
Freespeace Series Descent 3 Resident Evil 2 Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Silent Hill SiN Star Wars: Rogue Squadron Castlevania
Master of Orion II: Battle at Antares Jagged Alliance 2 Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear Swat 3
Flight Unlimited 2-3 Dead or Alive 1-2 C&C Series Icewind Dale
Oh and I forgot Syndicate and about 100 other great games...

I dont think we can match this level of quality, innovation today.

1980-1984 1985-1989 1990-1995 were great with real creativity and much less commercilization but I dont think even they could match the amount of quality these games had in later half of 90s.

Amazing years for me: the games that come out in this period was the reason why gaming was (and is still) more that just a hobby for me.

Edited by Nesij, 13 August 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Sephlock]

IlIlI, on 13 August 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

There are 2 games that I play even now from the old days and I want newer versions of them. Master of Orion 2 and Mechcommander.

I would pay $200 for updated versions of either of these games.

Well you could buy Master of Orion 3 .