78 replies to this topic

[Threat Doc]

Jack Gallows, on 02 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Best of luck and good hunting

And to you, Jack. Thank you.

MarauderHI, on 02 February 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

This topic cracks me up.

Isn't it funny?

Quote

Maybe ,when you see the history behind some of these units, you will understand a little more why they think they have the right to those units and names.

Everything you've said not only summarized what I've been trying to get across in this thread, but said it better and more succinctly. Thank you.

[Righ]

I like the idea of joining your favorite unit from the franchise, but I would like to see more creativity around. I want to fight against some unknown merc company and not know what I'm up against, rather than fighting Wolf's Dragoons, but knowing they're not THE Wolf's Dragoons. I don't have a problem with people claiming the smaller lances and regiments from well-known units, but I'd like to just keep it at that.

[Jack Gallows]

MarauderHI, on 02 February 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

If you guys really want some good info go and look at some of the websites that are around. BH, House Steiner, House Kurita, Kell Hounds, just to name a few. Maybe ,when you see the history behind some of these units, you will understand a little more why they think they have the right to those units and names.

I think most people just want you to realize that you've got a very real chance of being ousted out of your favorite unit. It's a new game with a mixed player base, some coming from previous games/etc, others brand new. They're going to have equal shot, regardless of what you feel digitally entitled to. Everyone has a right to these unit names just as much as the people who've been part of groups that have called themselves such for longer.

Not trying to cause any hate, cause I don't want anyone displaced, but it's still something that should be considered. Hope people get the names they want, but are prepared for the possibility (and eventuality given some of the more lore locked units...) that it's not going to be those old members heading up the units they thought they were going to.

[Hellinabarrel]

time to stop following this thread i think.
i hope these names do get locked so that the greater majority of new players can be a part of these crews without the small mindedness of the guys who are claiming to run them.
I completely understand that you guys have been part of those crews for a long time and have played under those names in leagues and such but the fact remains that this game will be a world wide MMO and the units that we've all read about in the novels and tech books from the past should be controlled by npc's that don't have too bigga ego's to handle the unit names.

you have every right to fight under these banners but i personally don't think you have the right to create a unit with that name and run it as though it's the real thing from the history books.

sorry just my personal opinion and i'd like to see the game set out that way to make it fair on everyone.

i'd hate to see someone come into the game and want to join the unit they've always wanted to and then find they have arrogent egotistical commanders to run the show.

[Damocles]

Hellinabarrel, on 02 February 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

i'd hate to see someone come into the game and want to join the unit they've always wanted to and then find they have arrogent egotistical commanders to run the show.

So they wanted to join for what then? Just a name? I know I would rather try to join a Wolf's Dragoons unit that has existed for 15 years than one that was made just on some guys whim.

And a Commander with no ego and no pride in his unit history is a commander I would never serve under.

[Jack Gallows]

Damocles, on 02 February 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

So they wanted to join for what then? Just a name? I know I would rather try to join a Wolf's Dragoons unit that has existed for 15 years than one that was made just on some guys whim.

I think some of the point is there's downfalls to both sides of the idea here. Not everyone who has rank or status in these units are going to be able to handle their rank, some are going to have it because they're friends of X person or have been in X long. This won't befall all units, but it's a valid concern of newer players.

You've also got to consider how intimidating it can be for new players to join a unit and see people jabbing like they've known each other for so long, to feel like they'll never really be a part of that core group, unless it's a popularity contest. Again not all units have this problems.

Then there's the fear that there's no advancement, due to officer slots/etc having been filled for the last, decade or however many years. If you don't need new leadership, or there isn't a way to replace/join the higher ranks (or if doing so is an empty gesture,) then it can take the fun out of it.

There's plenty of bonuses to having pre established units, but in the end it's going to come down to who can hit that submit button faster when it comes down to creating a unit based on a canon name (assuming it's not dev locked.) It's probably better that way, as it promotes a more open community that has to work together to fit together. Now, if people are worried someones going to unit camp and sign up for it then sit on it, there's ways to counter that issue to.

[Firefly]

Hellinabarrel, on 02 February 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

time to stop following this thread i think.
i hope these names do get locked so that the greater majority of new players can be a part of these crews without the small mindedness of the guys who are claiming to run them. [...] you have every right to fight under these banners but i personally don't think you have the right to create a unit with that name and run it as though it's the real thing from the history books.

This will be my final post on this subject now and forever. Speaking only for myself as a member and commanding officer of the Black Widow Company online gaming unit that has been in continuous existence since 2001, I will say this with regards to the two points I singled out:

1) Anyone who wishes to "be a part of these crews" pretty much needs only sign up and join. Well, let me rephrase. I cannot speak for any other unit's recruitment policies but all you'd need to do is apply with us in order to "be a part of th[is] crew". Based on how judgmental and purist you come off, though, I think the only small mindedness would be on your part. And from a leader's perspective, I have no place in my ranks for tyrants like you who want everything to be their way. If you amend that attitude and wish to join us, I'd be happy to discuss it with you in private because I like to think our unit is welcoming to anyone who can pass muster.

2) " i personally don't think you have the right to create a unit with that name and run it as though it's the real thing from the history books." -- That's fine. You personally can think whatever you want. You're a player in the game so thankfully, your opinion is an opinion and not game policy. As this statement relates to my Company, I will say this one last time: We are not Black Widow Company. We are Black Widow Company. We are not roleplaying being the Dragoons independent company, we are not roleplaying anything. We aren't even the Black Widow Company that existed in online gaming back in the 90s that took the name, I presume, from the Btech unit. We are an online gaming group that named itself after the leader at the time, a guy whose online moniker was BlackWidow. The end.

If our defensiveness makes us small-minded because of our pride in our legacy, that makes your mind absolutely microscopic. Sorry you're so friggin' butthurt about decisions which don't even affect you. Don't like it? Don't join. Want to be your own Grey Death Legion? Go start one. But spare us all the crying, your elitist fanboi purist attitude is really getting on the collective nerves of a number of people.

Edited by Firefly, 03 February 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Hellinabarrel]

HAHA omg

FYI my post wasn't directed at you at all but after that reply i'll include you in the list.

and i was never interested in joining you sorry bro.

my thoughts have the entire gaming community in mind. not just a select few that want to controll the many.

[Gunnar81]

Just throwing in on this convo, but im with Harrow on a few points here. I think I understand what he was trying to get at earlier. I played Netmech, MW2 and Mercs back on Kali in the late 90's and while it was a really cool environment with all the organization and team work, cracking into some of those units to join up and make your way through the ranks was almost impossible due to the people already chummed up in the unit. Now over 10 years later I see some of these same people on the forums carrying on like they have some sort of right to a unit and rank or position just because they've 'kept the faith' all these years. While this shows the commitment of the community after all these years its also bizarre to lay claim to factions or regiments when the game isn't even complete yet. Hopefully no gets heart broke when their self bestowed Colonel or saKhan rank from ten years ago gets thrown out the window by the new game model.

[Starkiller]

Randal Waide, on 29 January 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I think Canon Names should stay canon. There is only one Jamie Wolf, etc.It would be cool to be hired by or fight against the dragoons but I'm not clear of the NPC roles in this game. Is it straight PVP or will missions go up against NPC's with rewards based on difficulty of the fight?
An example would be my Blackhearts Battalion I played with the miniatures game. It seems there is a unit hiring named the Black Hearts. Would I get to keep my Battalion name?

I must have missed this thread and it was brought to my attention. What some of you who think us older units have no right to claim these names do not realize is, some of us were assigned these units by duly appointed representatives in Multiplayer Battletech and are as "official" as any unit could be. I was assigned the Black Hearts name and command by the Archon appointed by Kesmai/Gamestorm and backed by FASA Interactive. So how do I not have the "right" to continue with my "officially appointed" unit name and command since I have never closed the unit and kept it going faithully for well over a decade? By what "right" does someone have to come and challange what has come before them? I think that is the better question why should an established unit just let someone take command because they "think" they have the right as an overbearing self centered person?

Edited by Starkiller, 11 August 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Starkiller, on 11 August 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

So how do I not have the "right" to continue with my "officially appointed" unit name and command since I have never closed the unit and kept it going faithully for well over a decade?

Because MWO is neither a FASA nor a Kesmai product.

[Starkiller]

Thorn Hallis, on 11 August 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Because MWO is neither a FASA nor a Kesmai product.

MWO could not be made without FASA Interactive permission. Please do not speak like an expert without knowing what you are speaking about. Also has no bearing on the subject though as to what I stated. Those that were ASSIGNED their units and have kept their websites and units going have as much right to lay claim to them as anyone else could possibly hope to lay claim and more so in the fact they have kept them up and going for years and years beyond hope of a new game being released.

[xX_Nero_Xx]

what sucks is when you been the same unit witht he same core player the whole mw series up to the end all the guys are coming back and you are informed you cant use the name cause of the cannon crap i dont care what name we will always be santander's assassin mw1-mwo no matter what tag they say we have to use here.

Edited by fccolhitman, 11 August 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Starkiller, on 11 August 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

MWO could not be made without FASA Interactive permission. Please do not speak like an expert without knowing what you are speaking about. Also has no bearing on the subject though as to what I stated. Those that were ASSIGNED their units and have kept their websites and units going have as much right to lay claim to them as anyone else could possibly hope to lay claim and more so in the fact they have kept them up and going for years and years beyond hope of a new game being released.

You are aware that we live in 2012? FASA shut down in 2007. Have you seen a FASA logo anywhere here? No? Surprise, surprise...

And yes, those have the right to lay claim to certain unit names - for the ONE game they were assigned that unit names. Nothing and nowhere else.

[Starkiller]

Thorn Hallis, on 12 August 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

You are aware that we live in 2012? FASA shut down in 2007. Have you seen a FASA logo anywhere here? No? Surprise, surprise...

And yes, those have the right to lay claim to certain unit names - for the ONE game they were assigned that unit names. Nothing and nowhere else.

You do realize that 2012 has nothing to do with this conversation at all, this is still copyrighted material? FASA Interactive is now a part of Microsoft, we were not discussing FASA ever, FASA Interactive became a seperate entity long before FASA closed.

Who are you to say these units have no rights for nothing and no where else? Just because you say so? The communities that have kept these names and units together for years have lots of rights, regardless of what your opinion is. You can choose to disagree but you have no power to assign or revoke any rights. Units that we are discussing are part of the reason a new product like this is even being looked at, if there was no community keeping the spirit and names of Mechwarrior alive, there would be no reason for any company to invest money in a dead franchise for people that have never heard of or played it before. The game market has become so very unstable in recent years that it would not make sense without enough existing support to make a niche genre game if the niche is not there any more.

[Thorn Hallis]

Starkiller, on 12 August 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

You do realize that 2012 has nothing to do with this conversation at all, this is still copyrighted material? FASA Interactive is now a part of Microsoft, we were not discussing FASA ever, FASA Interactive became a seperate entity long before FASA closed.

And thats why it holds zero value that people were assigned canon units by FASA/Kesmai.

Starkiller, on 12 August 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

The communities that have kept these names and units together for years have lots of rights, regardless of what your opinion is.

And thats why? Because you say so? They have no more nor less rights then anyone else using the names for their units/chapters.

[Starkiller]

Thorn Hallis, on 12 August 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

And thats why it holds zero value that people were assigned canon units by FASA/Kesmai.




And thats why? Because you say so? They have no more nor less rights then anyone else using the names for their units/chapters.

Ok you keep sitting in the corner and talk about FASA by yourself, it has nothing to do with the conversation. And that is your opinion as far as rights, I completely disagree with you and the last person appointed in an "official" capacity extended my rights past "one game". Did I ever say it was defacto end all be all? Nope, but those of us in this position have rights regardless of what you personally feel. Our communities being kept together and vibrant are a huge part of the reason this product is being made.

[SGT Puddles]

19 year BT fanatic here.

I don't know why this tread grabbed my interest. I was initially very much against people choosing prestigious canon unit names. I still am, but i understand the strong desire to play under a unit name you have played under for years.

Still, I would prefer if these names had to be earned in this game, not because of actions in any other game.

I would like to see top units given a chance, through in game achievement or competition, to earn the right to a canon unit name. When i fight [prestigious merc/house unit] I want to know im totally screwed, and feel im fighting the real thing. I want it to have meaning, not simply claimed due to someones sense of entitlement whether it is justified or not.

Allot of good points here on both sides and allot of hate from a certain few.

I am sorry to say, I still home you guys do not get to keep your canon unit and player names, Though I would have less of an issue with some of the more obscure ones.

Just my opinion on what will be the best for the game.

For perspective. Yes I would want to join [insert prestigious canon unit here]. But, I would have serious reservations if it was player run and not earned in game in MWO. I would absolutely join if it were not player run at all and was only offered for players in the top x percent (or some other method to earn it)

Lots of love and Bacon,

SGT Puddles

[Colonel Fubar]

Is there a list that MWO members can access to review current (In Use) Unit names and their associated TAG's? If one chooses a new unit name and its rejected as being in use...one doesn't know whether its their name or TAG choice or both that are in use to cause the unit rejection notification.