78 replies to this topic

[Harrow]

Are folks starting mercenary groups using canon unit names or is this just a nod saying that you are affiliated with these units as a lance within that unit for example? The idea that a player can suddenly become the leader of the Wolf's Dragoons or even one of the named battalions (basically taking on the persona of a named character in the canon) within that faction makes me chuckle.

[Hayden]

I think it's been stated that major units that could have an effect on the "plot" will not be available to players.

[Threat Doc]

Harrow, on 29 January 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Are folks starting mercenary groups using canon unit names or is this just a nod saying that you are affiliated with these units as a lance within that unit for example? The idea that a player can suddenly become the leader of the Wolf's Dragoons or even one of the named battalions (basically taking on the persona of a named character in the canon) within that faction makes me chuckle.

Well, except for the fact that there have been units in Leagues since MW2: Mercs commanding these, and the varied communities from the varied Leagues are now coming here to play, and they're organizing pretty well, I would say, I wouldn't chuckle too hard.

Hayden, on 29 January 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

I think it's been stated that major units that could have an effect on the "plot" will not be available to players.

For the Houses, sub-units and regiments that do not have a significant place in the war, I believe player groups will be able to inhabit those.

[Harrow]

Kay Wolf, on 29 January 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Well, except for the fact that there have been units in Leagues since MW2: Mercs commanding these, and the varied communities from the varied Leagues are now coming here to play, and they're organizing pretty well, I would say, I wouldn't chuckle too hard.

I understand that, and I've picked up on this assumption that these league players have that their group will or does represent the faction in this game with their already predefined leadership structure. I brought the point up because this game is sure to attract many more players than these community supported leagues alone. And organized or not, the assumption that becase you were in this leauge or that for 'x' amount of time representing 'x' faction, means that your group will take over that faction within the game is still somewhat arrogant. And I might be wrong in my perception but I can't be the only one getting this vibe from that community.

For example we have a Wolf's Dragoons thread in this forum talking about who has taken which regimental or company name. I noticed the Black widow Company was taken. So who is going to be Natasha and quite frankly who the eff are they to assume this role? And if I wanted to join that particular faction, who do I now have to deal with thinking they are the leader of the faction because of some third party community mod group/league? In other words, how do these factions become fair and approachable to people who were not apart of these small cliques of modders.

Hell some of these people are already 'claiming' canon battalions and throwing up websites. People talking about voting on who the leadership council will be or that it should be comprised of the battalion/regiment leaders. (which of course favors the guy who has played with 30 or 40 people in one of these 'leagues' since the majority of people who havent been in these leagues doesnt know anyone else much less who to vote for).

[Randal Waide]

I think Canon Names should stay canon. There is only one Jamie Wolf, etc.It would be cool to be hired by or fight against the dragoons but I'm not clear of the NPC roles in this game. Is it straight PVP or will missions go up against NPC's with rewards based on difficulty of the fight?
An example would be my Blackhearts Battalion I played with the miniatures game. It seems there is a unit hiring named the Black Hearts. Would I get to keep my Battalion name?

[azaptyE]

Randal Waide, on 29 January 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I think Canon Names should stay canon. There is only one Jamie Wolf, etc.

I agree.

[HATER 1]

i wouldn't be surprised if those merc unit names get locked from the get go.

[Harrow]

HATER-1, on 29 January 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

i wouldn't be surprised if those merc unit names get locked from the get go.

it would make me happy.

[HATER 1]

Harrow, on 29 January 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

it would make me happy.

not that i am raining on any group's parade, that's just what makes sense right now.

[Sug]

HATER-1, on 29 January 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

i wouldn't be surprised if those merc unit names get locked from the get go.

You could always join my Eridany Lite Horse

[Rabbit Blacksun]

more then likely Canon is gunna get locked out ... but thats not something the dev's have made comment about, though there have been a few that have posted on this as well

[Threat Doc]

Harrow, on 29 January 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

I understand that, and I've picked up on this assumption that these league players have that their group will or does represent the faction in this game with their already predefined leadership structure. I brought the point up because this game is sure to attract many more players than these community supported leagues alone. And organized or not, the assumption that becase you were in this leauge or that for 'x' amount of time representing 'x' faction, means that your group will take over that faction within the game is still somewhat arrogant. And I might be wrong in my perception but I can't be the only one getting this vibe from that community.

My feeling is that those who've spoken up, first, Canon unit or not, if certain portions of even important Canon units are allowed to be played, then a C&S will already be in place and will work with new players to come in and play, as well, to build up their forces.

Quote

For example we have a Wolf's Dragoons thread in this forum talking about who has taken which regimental or company name. I noticed the Black widow Company was taken. So who is going to be Natasha and quite frankly who the eff are they to assume this role? And if I wanted to join that particular faction, who do I now have to deal with thinking they are the leader of the faction because of some third party community mod group/league? In other words, how do these factions become fair and approachable to people who were not apart of these small cliques of modders.

"...and quite frankly who the eff are they to assume this role?" ~ They are the fans, they are the ones who've purchased the tabletop games and/or the computer games, and they are the ones who laid claim first on this web site, whomever they may be, and if they can't hack it, it's going to show when play really begins in earnest. They are the eff'ing people who've been around the longest and they should be dealt with by giving them the respect of any position they've chosen to pick up before anyone else, and if you eff'ing don't like it, don't eff'ing join! Do your own thing, will ya? The way they become "fair and approachable" is if they have any sense in their head whatsoever to see the number of people registered on these forums, that have posted, and to understand Bryan Ekman's comments about the actual number of registered folks being MUCH higher. If they want to be able to make a fair and reasonable showing in this game, as large as the player base is, already, they will do the right thing, be nice, recruit and train people to be skillful, respectful, and good MechWarriors; they will shepherd their own groups, they will build them correctly, not just so they can go out on the battlefield and rack up kills, but so they can actually keep their mercenary franchise going, if they go mercs. Who are YOU to question that?

Quote

**** some of these people are already 'claiming' canon battalions and throwing up websites. People talking about voting on who the leadership council will be or that it should be comprised of the battalion/regiment leaders. (which of course favors the guy who has played with 30 or 40 people in one of these 'leagues' since the majority of people who havent been in these leagues doesnt know anyone else much less who to vote for).

Okay, fair enough. I have two incomplete companies full of people, and I'm beginning to recruit more as I am able. If these leaders, and their followers, believe they are capable of building an excellent unit, then that's what they're going to do, and if they can't hack it, if they're not fluid enough, they're going to get kicked, and hard. Now, of the players signing up to these units, everyone whose ever played in any of these Leagues knows that 2/3rds of your player base, roughly, of all the people you've signed up to play with you in the game, are going to be deadbeats. Now, whether or not that will continue to hold true for MechWarrior Online, we've yet to find out, because this is a WHOLE different ballgame, and I have a feeling that, once MWO goes live, around 2/3rds of the MechWarrior's who've signed up will be active, now. Regardless, it's up to the leaders of the eff'ing units to run their units, to live or perish. Fluid units who lose the Canon unit name they've signed up with, will simply gear themselves to something else, and rigid units will disband within weeks, if not days, of MWO going live.

Rabbit Blacksun, on 29 January 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

more then likely Canon is gunna get locked out ... but thats not something the dev's have made comment about, though there have been a few that have posted on this as well

True. IIRC, the devs have explained that certain Canon units that have important roles in the time-line will get locked out, but they've not expressed whether that's going to be the entirety of a Canon unit, or simply the elements of the Canon unit that had the important roles. I expect fully 50-75% of Canon units to remain unlocked for play.

Harrow, question all you want, raise your pitchfork, but for many of these units, including mine, Fanon though it be, many -if not all- of these unit chains of command and support, the leaders, and most likely the guys who jumped on names, first, have earned their right to be here. What have you done?

Edited by Kay Wolf, 07 September 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Brakkyn]

I don't think simply because someone "got to it first" should mean they have some sense of entitlement. I'm sure there are alot of "Wolf's Dragoons" out there of various incarnations.

People can pretend they're in some famous unit all they want, but when it comes down to it, such units should be locked out from player use. Come up with your own unit or use one that isn't as woven into history. Being in a certain unit won't make you more awesome than you already think you are.

[sadamle]

Natural selection will occur. There might be many units at the beginning, but only the successful and popular ones will survive the distance, with players eventually gravitating towards them for more games and greater combat variety.

[Harrow]

Kay Wolf, on 29 January 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

"...and quite frankly who the eff are they to assume this role?" ~ They are the fans, they are the ones who've purchased the tabletop games and/or the computer games, and they are the ones who laid claim first on this web site, whomever they may be, and if they can't hack it, it's going to show when play really begins in earnest. They are the eff'ing people who've been around the longest and they should be dealt with by giving them the respect of any position they've chosen to pick up before anyone else, and if you eff'ing don't like it, don't eff'ing join! Do your own thing, will ya? The way they become "fair and approachable" is if they have any sense in their head whatsoever to see the number of people registered on these forums, that have posted, and to understand Bryan Ekman's comments about the actual number of registered folks being MUCH higher. If they want to be able to make a fair and reasonable showing in this game, as large as the player base is, already, they will do the right thing, be nice, recruit and train people to be skillful, respectful, and good MechWarriors; they will shepherd their own groups, they will build them correctly, not just so they can go out on the battlefield and rack up kills, but so they can actually keep their mercenary franchise going, if they go mercs. Who are YOU to question that?

Harrow, question all you want, raise your pitchfork, but for many of these units, including mine, Fanon though it be, many -if not all- of these unit chains of command and support, the leaders, and most likely the guys who jumped on names, first, have earned their right to be here. What have you done?

In response to a few of your points:

1. We're all fans or we would not be here. Just because folks have been involved with this mod league or that tabletop league doesn't make them a better fan nor does it make them more deserving of anything in a new game like this. Especially when its reach within the BT community of fans has the potential to be so much broader than anything we've had to date. And to echo another point, just because they got the wonderful news about this game earlier than another doesn't give them 'dibs' on a canon unit or canon character or any claims to a leadership role within those units or houses by doing so. Your comment of 'if i dont like it, don't join, do my own thing' is really sad. Basically you're saying that if some person got to the Wolf's Dragoons before me and self elected themselves as leader for example and i don't like their leadership then i am crap out of luck if i ever hope to play in that unit. That sounds real open and fair to me

2. And how does any of this mean they've been around the longest. So the league players have automatically all been playing longer than any other fan on this site. I doubt it. I have no doubt there will be some really long time fans in there but you can't say they've all been around longer than any other fan. Again, arrogant. I've been a fan and a player of all things battletech for 19 years. Long time. But i know there is always that guy or gal whose been at it since the game first launched or at least longer than me right around the corner.

3. To answer your question of 'who am i to question that'. I am a fan just like everyone else here. I'm the fan who had the guts to ask an honest and fair question that i knew had a high potential to be flamed because of a sincere concern I had because my opinion is just as valid as every other fan on this site. If you want to be the leader of a NON canon unit, sub unit, or merc group; great! Do it to the best of your ability. But don't go around self proclaiming and self appointing within canon unit/factions. Next thing you know they'll be asking the devs for roster imports into the game with their rank structures intact. :-P

4. "...earned their right to be here..." again, by whose standards? and how do you even begin to quantify that? are we really saying some fans are better, or more important, or more deserving than others. That is the attitude I am talking about right there. its evident in every fiber of what you say. Your pompous, arrogant, and elitist attitude can only mean that the group of players you represent is very insular or you are actually 'in character as a clan warrior' when you post. I hope this is not true of all fans in your neck of the BT community. You ended your post with "what have i done?" seriously? you want my resume? the price tag associated with every source book and computer game i've bought over the years? a time sheet logging every minute spent on tabletop matches, computer games, conventions, painting models?

[John Clavell]

Every fan has the same legitimate right to show their loyalty to whatever faction within the canon they have followed. You've focused on the Wolf's Dragoons and the Black Widow Battalion in your post, fair enough. Since the first MechWarrior games there have been groups of fans and players which have united under the banner of one of the many factions and sub units. Do you really believe that anyone of these is more or less legitimate? I think not. The Devs have said it will be first come first serve, they understand the passion within the community, and I am sure they want to keep well away from it.

No one in the community has a greater right to role play or take on affinity to the lore and units. You don't own any rights to Battletech that is for sure. It does not matter if your the first person to ever play Battletech. Or if MWO will be the first time you've ever even heard of Battletech or MechWarrior. Everyone has the same right and access to Battletech and it's wonderful stories and units and people. If the devs wish to prune people trying to play as Jamie Wolf or Natasha Kerensky or Natasha K3R3|\|$Ky then that's up to them.

One thing to point out about the Black Widow Company which has currently taken the name. This might be ignorance on my part, and I welcome Firefly to correct me if I am wrong. But said group is a multi gaming clan, I was under the impression that their groups name was not actually anything to do with Battletech and was just a coincidence. Anyway, there is way too much hate in here for this time of the morning. I've also replied to your post on the Dragoon sub-unit thread on these forums.

Edited by John Clavell, 30 January 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[Harrow]

John Clavell, on 30 January 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Every fan has the same legitimate right to show their loyalty to whatever faction within the canon they have followed. You've focused on the Wolf's Dragoons and the Black Widow Battalion in your post, fair enough. Since the first MechWarrior games there have been groups of fans and players which have united under the banner of one of the many factions and sub units. Do you really believe that anyone of these is more or less legitimate? I think not. The Devs have said it will be first come first serve, they understand the passion within the community, and I am sure they want to keep well away from it.

No one in the community has a greater right to role play or take on affinity to the lore and units. You don't own any rights to Battletech that is for sure. It does not matter if your the first person to ever play Battletech. Or if MWO will be the first time you've ever even heard of Battletech or MechWarrior. Everyone has the same right and access to Battletech and it's wonderful stories and units and people. If the devs wish to prune people trying to play as Jamie Wolf or Natasha Kerensky or Natasha K3R3|\|$Ky then that's up to them.

One thing to point out about the Black Widow Company which has currently taken the name. This might be ignorance on my part, and I welcome Firefly to correct me if I am wrong. But said group is a multi gaming clan, I was under the impression that their groups name was not actually anything to do with Battletech and was just a coincidence. Anyway, there is way too much hate in here for this time of the morning. I've also replied to your post on the Dragoon sub-unit thread on these forums.

I only used the dragoons and bwc as an example because that is the most prominent thread.

And, quite frankly most of your points agree with mine.

Also, it wasn't my intent to seem hateful. I was just responding to directed comments.

[Tryg]

I think a more pressing concern then whether or not canon units should be allowed, is as Merc Corps Leaders, do all these folks want to put all their chips on the table on the off chance they happen to be the first one to hit 'submit' on that registration page? I fully understand the desire for community and wanting to be established and ready to go come launch day, but in all reality, if canon unit names aren't locked out...the major ones are going to be gone literally seconds after the page is activated.

The Devs aren't likely to give any preference to any group who isn't part of the Dev team, regardless of what leagues/games/etc... a group may have been involved with.

Just my two cents, but personally, its not worth the headache of hinging everything on the hopes of getting a specific (or even set of specific) names. If you do, don't blink and be ready the exact moment they allow registrations!

[John Clavell]

Tryg, on 30 January 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

I think a more pressing concern then whether or not canon units should be allowed, is as Merc Corps Leaders, do all these folks want to put all their chips on the table on the off chance they happen to be the first one to hit 'submit' on that registration page? I fully understand the desire for community and wanting to be established and ready to go come launch day, but in all reality, if canon unit names aren't locked out...the major ones are going to be gone literally seconds after the page is activated.

The Devs aren't likely to give any preference to any group who isn't part of the Dev team, regardless of what leagues/games/etc... a group may have been involved with.

Just my two cents, but personally, its not worth the headache of hinging everything on the hopes of getting a specific (or even set of specific) names. If you do, don't blink and be ready the exact moment they allow registrations!

If there is any preference from the devs there will be total outcry and backlash on PGI. This is why they said first come first serve, deal with it. No preference is given. At the end of the day posting up is more about getting back in touch with your old lance mates, and maybe welcoming new friends into your group. Our name matters a lot less to me than the people in the unit and the friendships we have.

[Hellinabarrel]

he's right in his first post kay wolf. thats completely arrogant.