466 replies to this topic

[USA Forever]

SakuranoSenshi, on 14 August 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Aye, that's not trolling, it's just inane nonsense, "USA Forever" (rolling my eyes at the name)

He may not be a communist since actually he likes whatever promotes big government. This is why he gets accused of being a fascist as well. He speaks ill of the constitution because it limits government too much. If you can't agree with that, you're just too unlearned.

[TheOnlyNom]

USA Forever, on 14 August 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

He may not be a communist since actually he likes whatever promotes big government. This is why he gets accused of being a fascist as well. He speaks ill of the constitution because it limits government too much. If you can't agree with that, you're just too unlearned.

I love the phrase too unlearned. Was going to pass by but couldnt resist...

Anyways being canadian i can never get americans figured out. You want a strong capitalist economy with a Communist welfare system making everyone equal while ensuring that you as a single person can have more money and power than your neighbour. you want to be well liked and feared, helping some people while killing others.I dont believe its the fault of the current ruling budy as much as a refusal to compromise and accept that other people might have ideas too. But thats just me

Edited by TheOnlyNom, 14 August 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[Elsydeon]

I do not care who the President is (in regards to race, religion, gender, etc.) as long as he/she/it/they/we/other pronoun does a good job.

The stuff President Obama has done that is illegal.

1. President Obama has had dealings with hate groups, the Black Panthers have been shown on video intimidating voters, and his church in Chicago (Trinity United Christian Church) is a hate oriented church (not just that one guy who said "not God bless America, *** **** America").

2. President Obama has engaged in a number of illegal appointments (the President has the power to appoint people while Congress is in recess, however, Congress has never been in recess since Bush was in office) claiming they were recess appointments.

3. President Obama has illegally sent troops to Libya to fight in a civil war in direct and flagrant violation of the War Power Resolution. The WPR states the POTUS must gain authorization for any troop deployment greater than 90 days. Congress has told him about such, even stated that he simply has to ask and he would get it. He has still refused to even ask, stating it is within his powers as Commander in Chief which it is not (the WPR is the codification of Congress' ability to declare war).

4. President Obama has used executive privilege to block the release of documents pertaining to Operation Fast and Furious, a gun smuggling operation which has resulted in a number of dealers being forced to sell arms illegally at the government's insistence, a border patrol agent murdered with a gun from this operation, and the arming of Mexican drug cartels (and many lost lives in Mexico).

5. President Obama has used his position to force the use of ethanol in fuel. The use of food crops for fuel is considered a crime against humanity by some persons within the UN because it increases the costs for all foods (more farmers planting corn, less planting wheat, corn costing more means meat, milk, and anything using high fructose corn syrup cost more).

6. President Obama has attempted to close the luxurious (compared to our prisons here in Illinois and especially the Cook County Jail not ten miles from his house) Guantanamo Bay prison, bringing a number of people here, to the American mainland, whom are considered enemies of this nation. His plan was to use an unfinished prison here in Illinois to house them. Despite what the press would tell you, Gitmo is actually one of the best prisons we have in terms of respect for inmates and safety, compared to the Cook County Jail which got a massive report from the DOJ about how unsafe the conditions are in virtually every area possible (intake and medical are havens for contagious disease, exposed wiring, fires being set in cells to get guards because the intercoms do not function, unsanitary food, on and on)

7. President Obama is currently using government resources (specifically, the White House website) for his campaign. This is the exact law that Nixon gained infamy for breaking.

8. President Obama recently stole a man's beer tent at the Iowa state fair for his campaign use without even asking permission first. This cost the man $25,000 in sales.

9. President Obama or someone working with him, during his Senate campaign, gained access to sealed family court records (child custody hearings, specifically) in California to discredit his second Republican opponent, Jack Ryan (who got busted whoring out his hot wife, 7 of 9 to some dude without even asking her, but still).

10. President Obama, or someone close to him, has leaked classified data in order to improve his image. The most famous example of such was the supposed (no body, no pics of a body, nothing except "I did it") killing of Osama bin Laden. Another leak was revealing that American and Israel (no surprise there however) were behind Stuxnet (and its variants, Son of Stuxnet and Flame), which had eluded everyone as to whom was behind it.

The stuff President Obama has done which is just bad.

1. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act cost over 1 trillion dollars to "save or create" (since you can not get quantifiable data on jobs saved) approximately 3.3 million jobs (CBO latest estimate). Simple elementary school division says that is over $300,000 per job "saved or created" and most of the jobs created were temporary jobs (like the completely unneeded road construction on Main Street here in Normal that actually made the street worse to drive on in winter). Simply paying $50,000 to 10 million households would have had more stimulus (bills get paid, cars get bought) and cost only 500 billion dollars.

2. The Affordable Care Act requires everyone to get health insurance, which already is problematic, since the young do not have the income to afford such and will be forced into Medicare.

The mass enrollment of the poor on Medicare will destroy the ability for hospitals to provide any actual services since every poor person will bring their kid (and welfare encourages you to procreate) in to the ER for the slightest suspicion of a problem since there is now no disincentive to do so (European universal health care makes you pay for unscheduled visits, and Canadian health care just takes forever).

Obama has refused to do anything regarding tort reform (his #1 campaign donor group was lawyers) to lower the costs of malpractice insurance (which is the highest expense for hospitals) or prescription drug prices (which are high because the companies pretty much have you by the testicles).

The abuse of federal power of requiring states to expand Medicaid or lose all Medicaid funding was ruled unconstitutional.

The final problem is Medicare will only cover certain things, leaving many (especially seniors) without the care they need (my roommate's mother can not get dentures because she still has a few teeth left, even though she can not use them due to a lack of matching teeth on the other jaw) and mired in confusing forms and regulations (I can not recall how many times my roommate has had to explain various forms and regulations to his mother. The 2012 guide book to Medicare is thick enough that you can roll it up and break someone's arm with it) which the poor (whom tend to have intentionally little education), young (who have no experience) and seniors (who have too much experience, and sometimes have mental issues) will have problems with.

3. ACTA, a secret treaty (the full text is not available to the public) which would provide extreme power to copyright holders. Secret treaties are never something a trustworthy leader would engage in.

4. The Chevrolet Volt, a project Obama pushed during the time of Government Motors, was a complete failure as it burst into flames repeatedly during crash tests.

5. The Tesla Roadster, another electric car he had dealings with, would do the opposite, you can actually brick one by simply charging it with a cord that is too long.

6. Taxation policy, the continual "The RIch don't pay enough." is a lie. Income taxation in America is progressive, the more you make, the more you are taxed, and many not only do not pay taxes due to income below the standard deduction, but are actually given large sums of money by the government (Earned Income Credit, which can reach thousands of dollars if you have kids). The reality is that the best way to create jobs is to give the people creating jobs the money to create jobs with and incentive to create them, not take money from the guy who writes the paychecks.

7. His energy policy is mostly corrupt, and what is not is just dumb. Solyndra was corrupt, giving money to a company that was expected to fail, then the guys in charge run off with the cash (Big Green is a big donor), the use of corn-based ethanol in gas is corrupt (ADM is a big donor and now their business is making ethanol from corn), the push for EVs is corrupt (electric companies gave him money too), the idiotic CAFE requirements are just ******* stupid (CAFE itself is ******* stupid because it either forces automakers to cheat instead of actually make better cars [SUVs exist because station wagons got legislated out of existence, but the need for room was still there] or just makes new cars more expensive and therefore keeps older cars on the roads longer). He has pushed for foolish renewable energy (wind, solar, etc.) but has done nothing for realistic energy (molten salt thorium cycle nuclear plants, tidal and ocean current power).

In summary, Obama is quite likely one of the worst world leaders in history. The only one whom I can say has been more corrupt and done more damage to his country is Robert Mugabe (stole 70% of the farmland in Zimbabwe and gave it to his friends simply because the owners were white).

[The Basilisk]

America survived droughts
America survidec floods
America survived earthquakes
Now Mitt Romney is coming.....and he has brought his trusty sidekick

We 'll weep for you buddies, greetings from good old europe. ;-)

[Aym]

Dymitry, on 14 August 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

For what it matters, from my European prospective, Mr. O. has done a good job considering the circumstances, at the very least, it has regained some credibility for the States. Regardless of what they promise during campaign (the same stuff in every democratic country) Economics factor are global (and always increasingly so) and no single politician, no matter who, can change the course of certain cycles.

I also do not want to dwell to much on details, but to think that a candidate for the presidential election, or any member of its entourage for the matter, can come from a working-class background, its optimistic at best. Most of these guys live and grow (politically at last) in a bubble.

What actions has he taken, policies implemented, that have so radically improved European views of the States?

[charov]

Rizartha, on 14 August 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

I find it amusing that Mitt Romny's buisness practices have resulted in Italy declaring him Persona non grata.

Look here

Just to be precise, "Persona non grata" is latin, not italian. If you try to translate in italian, you get something like "ungrateful person" instead of "unwelcome person". Which is quite strange

However, I didn't know that about Romney. Interesting.

EDIT: Just finished to see the video. Yeah, bunga bunga is everywhere

Edited by red devil2, 15 August 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[Aym]

red devil2, on 15 August 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Just to be precise, "Persona non grata" is latin, not italian. If you try to translate in italian, you get something like "ungrateful person" instead of "unwelcome person". Which is quite strange

However, I didn't know that about Romney. Interesting.

EDIT: Just finished to see the video. Yeah, bunga bunga is everywhere

No one concerned that Catholic racist Italy might have something against him because he is a Mormon? I mean, how deeply did the Daily Show check the background of the story?

[CaveMan]

Catamount, on 14 August 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Iong-winded post

FYI, the modern, Western-style democracy has been in the extreme minority for most of the 300 year time period you tout. Prior to 1950, the United States and France were the only major countries with such a system in place, and the US was considered a quaint backwater until World War 1, while it took France a hundred years or more after the revolution to stop reverting to monarchism.
Virtually all of Western Europe was living under a monarchy or a fascist system until the end of WW2. I don't think you want to make the argument that Hitler was an improvement over the Kaiser.
In fact, prior to 1950, most of the world was the imperial possessions of a handful of powers who had little interest in extending suffrage to the natives. The Industrial Revolution that brought about so much change in the world was mainly the product of Great Britain, a monarchy, with the US getting on the bandwagon later. In general, it was felt that progress was something for white Europeans of good breeding, and everyone else was just along for the ride.
And then there's the Soviet Union and red China, which made an astonishing level of technological and social progress, given that they pulled their nations up by the bootstraps from medieval stagnation to the space age in only a few decades, and no one would accuse those states of having any particular interest in democracy, human rights, or individual opportunities. German scientists notwithstanding, one could argue that the Soviets made more progress in 50 years than the West made in 150.

That the democratic republic (the common people elect the rulers from among the common people) as a form of governance spread around the same time as the Industrial Revolution happening is a statistical artifact. Correlation is not causation.

Furthermore, you're conflating democracy with secularism, humanism, and market economics, and in doing so, excluding all systems other than Western-style democracy and medieval feudalism. You can have a monarchy rooted in fundamental human rights (Great Britain post-Magna Carta), a market economy without democratic principles (modern-day China, Argentina under Pinochet), or a secular, "democratic" state with no free market or human rights protections (NSDAP*-era Germany, Soviet Union, China under Mao, Iraq under Saddam Hussein), just as easily as you can have a theocratic democracy (Islamic Republic of Iran) or a democracy with a state-run economy (Social Democracy).
Combining secular governance with human rights protections and a market economy seems to be essential to providing a high quality of life for citizens, but the requirement of elected representation is less clear. At present, no significant state has been created that enforces** human rights protections, secularism, and a market economy without also being structured as a republic***. The concept is essentially untested.

(And your claim that wealth disparities are at an all-time low is flat wrong. The wealth disparity in the United States alone is now bigger than it was in ancient Rome, including slaves. Forget counting non-First World countries.)

*National Socialist German Workers' Party. N*zi gets excluded by the profanity filter.

**There are, of course, totalitarian states that claim these attributes for propaganda reasons, but which don't have them in practice nor ever made any pretense of enforcing them.

***The UK of today is a de jure monarchy, but a de facto republic, as the Prime Minister exercises more real power than the Queen, and the House of Lords is being slowly dismantled.

Edited by CaveMan, 15 August 2012 - 02:00 AM.

[Striker1980]

Aym, on 14 August 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

What actions has he taken, policies implemented, that have so radically improved European views of the States?

Not dropping troops in countries that don't produce oil for his dads companies for one thing. (I'm from the UK and yeah, I know Blair wasn't the best for this either but he got his come-up-ance and there aren't many people here with a soft spot for the guy any more).

Not forgetting the names / countries of the world leaders he's just been briefed to meet.

Being eloquent.

Not leaving your populous to die in a corridor because some wealthy guy wants to save a fraction of a percentage of the x millions he makes from selling pension plans to people that will never see the money back and WILL get bailed out by the government when it all goes wrong; or some poor gullible sap has been convinced that he's some how going to be worse off paying for healthcare 'he may never need'. (Don't get me wrong your a democratic country and you're perfectly entitled to decide how you are going to treat the less fortunate in your own country, just remember you can't expect to be the Mr popular of the world whilst not caring for the least fortunate in your society).

Oh and I'm pretty tired of people in the states saying anyone who wants to help out his fellow man is a communist, it actually makes you a SOCIALIST. There's a world of difference between the two (oh and anyone who points out that Nazis aka facists were national socialists really needs to read a history book).

As an outsider I see where the US is heading and its pretty terrifying listening to people like the Tea party (yes I know 90% of Americans probably consider them to be flag waving rich loons with too much time on their hands too). Or that your considering electing a political leader that has such strong religious convictions and will be setting policies based upon that. Morals are one thing legislating how others live based upon beliefs the 99% of your countrymen actually find either 'a bit extreme' or worse ridiculous is terrifying.

[Dymitry]

Striker1980, on 15 August 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Not dropping troops in countries that don't produce oil for his dads companies for one thing. (I'm from the UK and yeah, I know Blair wasn't the best for this either but he got his come-up-ance and there aren't many people here with a soft spot for the guy any more).

Not forgetting the names / countries of the world leaders he's just been briefed to meet.

Being eloquent.

Not leaving your populous to die in a corridor because some wealthy guy wants to save a fraction of a percentage of the x millions he makes from selling pension plans to people that will never see the money back and WILL get bailed out by the government when it all goes wrong; or some poor gullible sap has been convinced that he's some how going to be worse off paying for healthcare 'he may never need'. (Don't get me wrong your a democratic country and you're perfectly entitled to decide how you are going to treat the less fortunate in your own country, just remember you can't expect to be the Mr popular of the world whilst not caring for the least fortunate in your society).

Oh and I'm pretty tired of people in the states saying anyone who wants to help out his fellow man is a communist, it actually makes you a SOCIALIST. There's a world of difference between the two (oh and anyone who points out that Nazis aka facists were national socialists really needs to read a history book).

As an outsider I see where the US is heading and its pretty terrifying listening to people like the Tea party (yes I know 90% of Americans probably consider them to be flag waving rich loons with too much time on their hands too). Or that your considering electing a political leader that has such strong religious convictions and will be setting policies based upon that. Morals are one thing legislating how others live based upon beliefs the 99% of your countrymen actually find either 'a bit extreme' or worse ridiculous is terrifying.

Stole my words.

[van Uber]

Aym, on 15 August 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

No one concerned that Catholic racist Italy might have something against him because he is a Mormon? I mean, how deeply did the Daily Show check the background of the story?

Why wouldn't anyone object to him being a Mormon? That he accepts the book of Mormon: in the 19th century a known con man called Joseph Smith, dug up some golen tablets, which he translated into 17th century english and later conveniantly lost. Romney believes that the garden of Eden was in Missouri. Believes that the native americans are the ten lost tribes of Israel. Believes that Jesus visited North America. It goes on.

Do you really want to have a man capable of believing such nonsens in office?

[Dymitry]

SakuranoSenshi, on 14 August 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

As Mitt "Too shady for Italy" Romney, yeah...

Aym, on 15 August 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

No one concerned that Catholic racist Italy might have something against him because he is a Mormon? I mean, how deeply did the Daily Show check the background of the story?

100% No. It does not work that way, especially with the US presidential candidate, he could be a fundamentalist muslim and would still be hailed from the pope in person. Do not want to go in a modern story catchup, but Italy has been THE trusty US european lapdog since ww2. Everytime someone tried to rise and go in a (slightly) different direction, scary stuff happened, bombs exploded and prime ministers got kidnapped (and killed). As for the shady bit, the US foreign politics has a huge deal to do with.

Edited by Dymitry, 15 August 2012 - 01:47 AM.

[Alex Dracu]

Watch "The Obama Deception" on YouTube. Everything predicted 4 years ago in that film came true. Mittens and his little Ayr Rand idolizing puppy are just as bad if not worse. The only politician in the world I respect and admire is Ron Paul.

[CaveMan]

Alex Dracu, on 15 August 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

The only politician in the world I respect and admire is Ron Paul.

It's such a pity some of the guy's ideas are nuts, because he is respectable. But I'd much rather have a leader who sticks to principles I don't agree with, than one who lacks them entirely.

[Dymitry]

Alex Dracu, on 15 August 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

Watch "The Obama Deception" on YouTube. Everything predicted 4 years ago in that film came true. Mittens and his little Ayr Rand idolizing puppy are just as bad if not worse. The only politician in the world I respect and admire is Ron Paul.

What is the deal with Ron Paul? I only saw the videos on youtube and everything he says in terms of foreign politics, well, makes a lot of sense.

[charov]

Aym, on 15 August 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

No one concerned that Catholic racist Italy might have something against him because he is a Mormon? I mean, how deeply did the Daily Show check the background of the story?

Catholic racist? Well, you have seen too many movies, or just being misguided by the presence of the pope (aka Emperor Palpatine) in our country. Just think about Mr B. How could he be in charge for such a long time if we were Catholic racists!

Most of people here just doesn't care about the church anymore.

Dymitry, on 15 August 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Italy has been THE trusty US european lapdog since ww2

Trusty? Not so much. We even helped some anti-US terrorists in the '70-'80. How could it be? Well, the italian government has always threatened the US to leave the western pact in favor of the eastern block. With this little "trick" they have done almost everything they want for years. Bombs and killings, however, were commited by communist terrorists.

Later, when the cold war was over, we followed the "winning horse" and become the "THE trusty US european lapdog" (typical italian behaviour).

Italian governments have always been funny, isn't it?

[Dymitry]

red devil2, on 15 August 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Catholic racist? Well, you have seen too many movies, or just being misguided by the presence of the pope (aka Emperor Palpatine) in our country. Just think about Mr B. How could he be in charge for such a long time if we were Catholic racists!

Most of people here just doesn't care about the church anymore.


Trusty? Not so much. We even helped some anti-US terrorists in the '70-'80. How could it be? Well, the italian government has always threatened the US to leave the western pact in favor of the eastern block. With this little "trick" they have done almost everything they want for years. Bombs and killings, however, were commited by communist terrorists.

Later, when the cold war was over, we followed the "winning horse" and become the "THE trusty US european lapdog" (typical italian behaviour).

Italian governments have always been funny, isn't it?

I beg to disagree. It is true that back in 60, 70 Italy had the biggest Communist party outside of the soviet block, hence the "red alert", the anti us movements you are talking about, and the reason of the US/Nato heavy interference with the governments. Do not get me wrong, I am not expressing any judgement, I am merely stating facts.

Bombs and killings committed only by communist terrorist is something out of history books promoted by the Berlusconi's governments. There was as much "black" terrorism as there was "red", carefully orchestrated in what is known as the "tension strategy". You also seem to be forgetting things like the Ustica "accident", operation Gladio, the P2, the unwillingness of the US to help in the Moro kidnapping, all things in whom the US had a great deal of influence.

There have been several "rebellious" at high level, as Enrico Mattei, who promoted Italian industry and freedom from the 7 oil-sisters, 5 of them US owned, and 1.5 british, and then mysteriously died in an "accident".

I would like to know in which ways italian governments have openly opposed the US, playing on Italy's strategic importance, since, again the US were on the DC (50 years directly at government, and its remnants still sitting in Rome) and right wing parties paychecks.

edit. I never stated, nor meant that Italians as a country and people were US or anyone else's lapdog, merely the governments.
And on the religious thing, I would not be so sure. Youngsters sure, but the population pyramid does not verge into youngsters favour.

Edited by Dymitry, 15 August 2012 - 04:28 AM.

[Murph]

On the tea party:

I was a tea party supporter at the beginning of the Tea Party. What you see as the tea party today is not my tea party. It got popular, it got infiltrated by rednecks and it got screwed up. What the Tea Party wanted was a stop to government overstepping its bounds and passing laws regardless of what their constituents wanted, and a return to the states deciding what was right for each individual state. The Affordable Care Act was passed without the consent of the governed. In other words, most of the country did not want it. Once it was revealed that the ACA made payment for birth control and abortion mandatory you started seeing the religious nuts show up. And the Tea Party had NOTHING to do with race. Ever. Until the Birthers showed up. (For our foreign friends not familiar with the birther phenomenon, the birthers are the people who dispute the right of Barack Obama to even be president because we have never seen his legal birth certificate.)

[Atomu Sakai]

Deathsiege, on 14 August 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

All I have to say is, if we elect a mormon as president, I'll move to Canada.

I will help you pack if you promise not to come back!

[AlexEss]

I wish you the best of luck with your elections, me i am just happy that my country of residence is way to small to have any lasting impact on the global scene, and thus what ever moron they put in office will mostly just affect my own sphere and not 1/3 of the global one.