105 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Dr Killinger, on 15 August 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

PC Gamer just reported on C&C Generals 2 being F2P:

http://www.pcgamer.c...-and-price-tag/

...and reading the comments, people are angry. Very angry. One even commented angrily towards MWO, without really substantiating his anger. Why are these people so against F2P? Granted, EA will probably make an absolute mess of the game, and even if they don't, it's incredibly fashionable to hate EA at the moment, so people will do everything they can to pull the game under.

Is the general gaming populace just not familiar enough with the F2P model yet? Have they been exposed to too many cheap pay-to-win iOS games?

not really surprising that people hate EA at the moment, they relocated its work force some moving from states away, and then laid off was either 400 or 4000 of them (wish I could find the link) leaving many thousands of miles from their roots and destitute.

Its not really surprising that people don't like F2P, as all versions and I sure this will sooner or later become P2W, some less subtle than the next.

F2P player cause chaos, they run about TKing to ruin others enjoyment get banned and start all over with another free account.

this will cause all the subscribing people to look down on all free players and those that just want to have fun will resent being lumped into the ******* crowd, and will call those that use bought items taking the easy path.

I know it seem to rake in more money than a purely subscription Game, though I have never understood why, I suppose it because there will be every sad person spending more money than just a monthly fee for that little edge.

and the Pro knock out competitions that seem to attract big money, just make me shake my head

I suppose having had my 15 minutes of fame, I know, it doesn't make you any better a person, but there are those that have to cling to something even a computer game to say look at me I'm L33T.

yes i'm in MWO and I know its F2P from the start, despite my apparent negative views on F2P, I like mechs, i'd like this to be a fun platform, and I'd like to have a good time playing it, but if it also falls into the bargin bin in 12 months time I won't feel like the world has ended.

so i take a neutral stance and if MWO goes west, and I feel the need to play battletech i'll blow the dust of my pre clans models set up a game with a few friends or kust mess about on my own, and completely avoid the kind of person that goes to conventions with, My other mech is an Atlas T-shirt.

Generally though the only people that make good out of F2P are the game developers at the expence of the community,

Maybe i'm being harsh about lumping all F2P game developers into the same boat, but look at WoT for an example and alplaya p2w games.

thats why when a title goes to F2P it causes rage hate in the fans

[rdelta78]

The problem is not the F2P, it's EA's F2P. Their other f2p games are actually fully pay to win tittles and that's no joke, because i've tried them all. I think many people, who have been playing EA games, know it and they are afraid that a potentially good game is going to be ruined. This may or may not happen, it entirely depends on what is going on in the EA's head.

F2P is something tricky... It's not for everybody but can be made into a good business method, which also is good for gamers, or totally ruined it ( examples are the EA Battlefield Heroes, Battlefield Play4free, Battleforge, C&C browser game and etc). EA just doesnt understand F2P and people tend to get upset by that, though it is a known fact that EA is a bad company, which should not be supported. I have been through this, so i understand those guys completely but the only thing they should do is just boycott and forget about EA completely.

Edit: By the way my first post here hehe

Edited by rdelta78, 15 August 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Tibs]

most mmo out there are f2p you go along with it or loss money that simple

[The Helepolis]

EA has made Command and Conquer go down hill since Red Alert 3 and Tiberium Twilight, but then again, what hasn't EA made go down hill? Over-priced DLC (almost as bad as CoD) save for maybe Battlefield 3, the price there seems reasonable, but most of their F2P games are either P2W, or just not good. BattleForge is hard to play without BF Points, Battlefield Heroes took the same road, now Commander and Conquer here seems to be making the same mistakes. As mentioned, free 2 play doesn't mean "Bad game" or "Wasted time". It means as it does, you can play it for free, but many games have a poor micro transaction system. MWO seems to be gearing up to do the right thing, they should learn from how League of Legends does their stuff, or atleast Blacklight Retribution, even though I hate rental systems. I still do enjoy that game.

[Saber Avalon]

Dr Killinger, on 15 August 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

PC Gamer just reported on C&C Generals 2 being F2P:

http://www.pcgamer.c...-and-price-tag/

...and reading the comments, people are angry. Very angry. One even commented angrily towards MWO, without really substantiating his anger. Why are these people so against F2P? Granted, EA will probably make an absolute mess of the game, and even if they don't, it's incredibly fashionable to hate EA at the moment, so people will do everything they can to pull the game under.

Is the general gaming populace just not familiar enough with the F2P model yet? Have they been exposed to too many cheap pay-to-win iOS games?

The people who hate it are quite familiar with F2P models. If you look at how much people generally spend on a F2P game vs a game you purchase from a store, you end up spending waaaaaaaaay more on a F2P game. Yes, yes, yes, we all know you don't have to buy things, but people do. There are always items in F2P games that cost real money and have no in game way of obtaining them without real cash. In MWO it's going to be skins. It's that part that people hate, the nickle and dime as much as possible out of you approach. Regular, retail, games you have skins implemented at no extra cost. So I can see why they hate it and I have to somewhat agree with that view point.

From the company who makes the game's stand point, it's a great money maker so I see why they do it. I can't blame them for using a clever marketing strategy to make money. However, I do not like how much they charge for such things. Games that people would normally pay up to $60 for are now costing them upwards of $2000 in some cases, take LoL for example. Many companies are running away with it and uncontrolled, it's akin to highway robbery or a good con. Again though, the player doesn't have to purchase but they do.

Edited by Saber Avalon, 15 August 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[abriael]

Wait, people still didn't know that C&C generals was to be free to play? I was quite sure it was already mentioned...

Anyway, why not? There simply are games for which it works, and games for which it doesn't. I've been playing world of tanks for a while, and the F2P model they have works very well.

[qultar]

ZI0N, on 15 August 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

I thought I would hate F2P but Star Trek Online did it right. lock boxes are kind of annoying, but how they sell ships with an equipable ability and slightly better stats without becoming pay to win has really worked out for them.

as someone from the pre F2P days i can tell you that STO is dieing
there is no draw to sub in that game and they are adding P2W ships
and the fact that starbases are a time sink as they have no new content

i will be shocked to see the game around in 2 years

[qultar]

Stringburka, on 15 August 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Is this the way it's going to be though? I've had it said to me that the only thing you'll get for cash is the extra xp/c-bucks. Is that incorrect?

they have also posted things like paint jobs and bobble heads will be sold
and if you want more then 4 mechs thou you only NEED 4 (one per class)

[SakuranoSenshi]

qultar, on 15 August 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

as someone from the pre F2P days i can tell you that STO is dieing
there is no draw to sub in that game and they are adding P2W ships
and the fact that starbases are a time sink as they have no new content

i will be shocked to see the game around in 2 years

I never played it but this is what I heard from a friend who was in at the beginning and very enthusiastic until recently.

[Garthak]

Damn EA to hell. C&C will be p2w, SWTOR when it goes free will end up being p2w, because there's hardly any endgame worth paying for. EA is an evil company, currently in the process of desicrating one of my favorate companies (bioware), if someone were to ask me if EA deserves to die, I would probably say "yes they deserve to die and I hope they burn in hell".

but not all f2p games are evil, looking forward to quite a few of them, MWO obviously, lookin forward to hawken, and path of exile is lookin pretty damned good to. Im sure they'll not be p2w, and so long as EA keeps their grubby little paws off them, they'll probably be some of my favorate games for a long time.

[SakuranoSenshi]

Garthak, on 15 August 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

EA is an evil company, currently in the process of desicrating one of my favorate companies (bioware), if someone were to ask me if EA deserves to die, I would probably say "yes they deserve to die and I hope they burn in hell".

You might want to get some perspective there, mate. That's perilously close to advocating murder, for one thing.

[Stringburka]

Well, the whole thing with "juridical persons" are bad enough, but when attempts to close down them gets labeled "attempted murder", we're in something deep and brown and yucky.

[Ironheart]

I don't like f2p games, because you never know what to expect and when they want your money again. E.g. The new weapon.
But nowadays some developers do that even with up front paid games. Thank you Relic and GPG.

[qultar]

Tyrnea Smurf, on 15 August 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Free to Play is the online gamers equivalent to a drug dealer passing free samples to get a mark hooked. Once the mark likes his new drug he will begin to pay for that which was first offered free just to taste. Some will try it and not like it, others will only have a passing interest before something else wonders by, but for a certain segment of the population, 'gentlemen start your engines' seems to capture the moment even if it isn't a male behind the keyboard .

On the idea that f2p = p2w, every game ever designed is a p2w. You either pay with time or your wallet, some games are just more upfront about the situation.

The current f2p system has 2 versions I have noticed,

#1: a sub based game converting to a 'free' model where you get to try out say the first 20% or so of the game as a teaser with a store model to unlock features/content that would be included in the sub if you payed it. Turbine's Dungeons and Dragons Online was the first to try this model, and later their Lord of the Rings Online went this way as well as DDO tripled its revenues after going f2p. LOTRO had greater success when it converted, and both I think are still the best sub/f2p system as turbine allows you to unlock EVERYTHING by way of in game earned Turbine Points (the store currency). It would just take you years to do so, which is why you whip out that credit card to buy TP to unlock content/goodies. Star Wars The Old Republic will try this version, however from what I have read so far, TORs attempt to f2p is nothing more than a desperate attempt to get some money before the horse dies and recoop some of that 200 million development cost. It might work, but I doubt it as the end game i'm told still stinks like a wet wookie, and they arn't investing any money to change that until f2p proves popular enough to justify additional expenditures.

#2: A game designed from the ground up to be a store unlock based game. Some are browser based even, tend tward simple graphics (MWO and a few others are exceptions to this rule, but there are hundreds of little cheap money suck browser games out there) and a more pvp system to keep AI development costs down. MWO looks like it is graphics wise the top dog in this type of f2p game, but I suspect most of us will shell out considerable dough in the store, not so much for any true advantage, but those goodies like expanded mechbay slots, paint schemes for our mechs for example.

STO is a ex sub game that always had a cash shop and the P2W problem
as for TOR the end game is ok just to much like WOW end game

MWO looks to be ok as everything in the shop sounds to be fluff
now if hey make it were to get clan mechs and tech you must pay $$$
then they have gone P2W (and many will pay for the timberwolf)

[Garthak]

SakuranoSenshi, on 15 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

You might want to get some perspective there, mate. That's perilously close to advocating murder, for one thing.

Murder the company, EA should die, dont murder people. Murdering people is bad, mkay. EA has taken far too many good companies, and murdered them. They must be stopped.

And the "they deserve to die" thing is from a movie, dont know which one, never saw it, just always liked the quote, know samuel l jackson was in it.

Edited by Garthak, 15 August 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[SakuranoSenshi]

Stringburka, on 15 August 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Well, the whole thing with "juridical persons" are bad enough, but when attempts to close down them gets labeled "attempted murder", we're in something deep and brown and yucky.

I have no idea what you're on about here, suffice to say he was not talking about closing anyone down, or any attempts to do so, he said he'd advocate killing people. That's genuinely serious business pretty much anywhere, sometimes even when clearly a joke. You're not anonymous on the internet and you do need to watch what you saw when it comes to violence or advocating it.

Garthak, on 15 August 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Murder the company, EA should die, dont murder people. Murdering people is bad, mkay. EA has taken far too many good companies, and murdered them. They must be stopped.

Okay, cool. See? Much clearer - obvious metaphor.

[Strikhedonia]

You know why I like F2P? Because it let's me dictate what a game is worth to me. I'm not locked into what the developers think I should pay. It allows me to get the feel of a game without any barrier to entry. Every gamer can relate to a purchase where they paid full price only to receive a broken game with little to no support from the developer. F2P, while not perfect, helps to ameliorate those concerns.

[WarHippy]

I don't have a problem with free2play for the most part, where I have a problem is that they are applying it to games that the model doesn't work. It is the same problem with the movie industry and 3D. The developers/publishers see something like League of Legends(Avatar) and think they can do the same thing with their game(movie) even though it doesn't fit like C&C(Random movie IN 3D!!!)

[qultar]

SakuranoSenshi, on 15 August 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I never played it but this is what I heard from a friend who was in at the beginning and very enthusiastic until recently.

in the past 1 and 1/2 years they have only added about 7 hours of content
and 4 hours of that is grind fest filler (15 min or so mini missons)
and most is time locked so you can only do it at set times

[SakuranoSenshi]

qultar, on 15 August 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

in the past 1 and 1/2 years they have only added about 7 hours of content
and 4 hours of that is grind fest filler (15 min or so mini missons)
and most is time locked so you can only do it at set times

Sounds dead to me.