7 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeah, back when I played Team Fortress Classic, a mod of the orginal Half-Life, they knew how to balance the "Scout" class and the "Heavy Weapons Guy" assault class. They did this by making the Scout's circle-strafing speed faster than the Heavy Weapons Guy's rotational speed, so a single scout in an open field could kill a HW Guy with just his crowbar... if the scout somehow managed to get that close in the first place.

That served 2 purposes - 1.) It forced the Assault players to work as part of a team instead of just acting as an unstoppable Lone Gun; and 2.) It gave Scout players the ability to fight instead of just running around until they got shot.

So, if the Jenner's manuverability is such that it could litterally run circles around an Atlas without the Atlas being able to line up a shot, but the Jenner faces the risk of getting easily blasted apart when driven carelessly, then you just balanced the two classes. I know you can't make Mech movement just like a person's movements (they do weigh a bit more than us), like how people can stop-on-a-dime and turn to run the other way, but I think you can limit the rotational speed of the Assault classes enough to make them slower than the circle-strafing speed of a fast Light Mech and achieve the goal of balance.

Imagine a lone Atlas trying to line up shots while a Flock of Jenners swooped by from two directions and hit-and-ran. The Atlas might hit 1/4 of them, but he would have absorbed 16 medium laser hits and 4 SRM6's in one attack run. The only way the Atlas could score repeat hits is to leave his reticule in one place and wait for Jenners to walk through his line-of-fire.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 February 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

"They did this by making the Scout's circle-strafing speed faster than the Heavy Weapons Guy's rotational speed..."
Unless you used a mouse, right?

[Dlardrageth]

Prosperity Park, on 01 February 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Yeah, back when I played Team Fortress Classic, a mod of the orginal Half-Life[...]

Why, I don't even... are those ice cream flavours you are talking about? And will those be generally available in game or just as "pay shop" content? (Bringing up examples of games prolly not even half the community has played usually doesn't help illustrate your point, right?)

On a more serious note, did I miss it when it had been stated that as a general rule a light, fast Mech should be able to solo an assault Mech? Because your scenario sounds exactly like that, not like requiring teamwork of a couple of light Mechs to bring down one assault Mech... especially this part:

Quote

It gave Scout players the ability to fight instead of just running around until they got shot.

It also doesn't IMHO make much sense if you have 4 Jenners attacking one Atlas for them all to run around in circles till they eventually collide. Do you by any chance remember the intro to the first MechCommander game? The lighter Mechs there didn't just start a happy merry-go-round, they simply made sure to position some of their firepower in their target's back. No need for excessive circle-strafing of a whole lance of Mechs. As the Atlas won't be able to cover every possible firing arc easily, if they just position skillfully enough.

But maybe I just misunderstood you?

Edited by Dlardrageth, 01 February 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Garth Erlam, on 01 February 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

"They did this by making the Scout's circle-strafing speed faster than the Heavy Weapons Guy's rotational speed..."
Unless you used a mouse, right?

[serious face]
Max Rotational velocity was limited to a low value for the Heavies, but was a high value for the Scouts.
[/serious face]

The scout could turn and burn at full speed, while the Heavy would rotate in-place, and the Scout could always move faster. If the Heavy turned the other direction, the Scout about-faced and remained ahead of the Heavy's reticule indefinately. A BattleTech Jenner wouldn't be able to suddenly about-face like a real Jenner can, but I think a JennerMech's movement capacity, and an Atlas Mech's movement limitations, should be such that, in an open field, when piloted by a BattleStig, a Jenner should be physcially capable of remining out of an Atlas's sights continuously.


And, come on, unless you used a mouse? I had a 18" wide mousepad just for TFC.
Don't mess with me, I will totally build an ammo dispenser on your body.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 February 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

As a QTF elitist, I have trouble admitting Team Fortress 'Classic' exists.

[Felicitatem Parco]

As an elitiest, I have trouble seeing past my nose to look down upon your comments.


Does that make me an honorary Davion?



Anyways, I'm not advocating a circle-strafing game here. If Jenners tried to circle-strafe an Atlas while in a downtown metropolitian area, we'd see a new class of Mech called the wall-mounted Jenner. That's a key part of MWO - it's not a circle-strafing game. What I am advocating is that Light Mechs have the capacity to out-turn an Atlas while moving at-speed such that, if the Atlas were to, for demonstration purposes, park himself in an open field and allow a Jenner to walk up from behind, and combat were to then commence, in the hands of an infinately-skilled pilot the Jenner could remain fairly unharmed for long periods of time.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 February 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Phades]

Or, if the atlas pilot had a brain, reverse direction and counter turn while torso rotating to bring the jenner into the FOV.

Yeah the analogy works ok if totally in the open field, but it doesn't translate well at all between the two formats. That said, actual turreting values will be an extremly important aspect within the game, despite the relative slow pacing the genre has had in the past.

[FinnMcKool]

in MWLL I use this strategy all the time using a harraser prime short range missles hit and run.



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