161 replies to this topic

[MekVitez]

Just want to say thank you to OP (Hennessey) for all ideas and good job on how you present and defend them

[Carebear]

They should focus on keeping PVP commnity pleased. Simple as that.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Maethos, on 19 August 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

wow I hope the clanners are not really twice as strong as IS mechs. As a IS pilot I would feel like bully ganging up on a clan mech for a win and well if as a Clan pilot I could take on 2 IS mechs and win, well again just kind of bully and would feel like the kind of pve we both dont want. Not sure how the devs will work this out but will faith in them and can see why it wont be at open beta at start. edit sorry your ratio was 1.5 avg. for clan mech power and I wrote 2.0 in the example

Thanks OP & Aleric for a good chat and of course to all who took time to post/or read.

To stay true to canon, those are about the odds it should be. The Clans were scary because their 'Mechs easily outmatched those of the same tonnage. Although you may not like the idea of IS pilots having to "gang up" on Clan 'Mechs, it is the way it was done. One on One Inner Sphere pilots could not stop the Clans. 10 vs 16 matches would create a very unique flavor and strategies. I fully expect to see the majority of IS units LRM boat.

[The Basilisk]

Tripple bows for Hennessey !!!
I think the most common argument for people who prefer PvP ultimativly to PvE is the general lack of flexibility and skill of the AIs. My answer to that is and will be for ever: At least the damn bots stick to their rolle and do their job as they are intended. Players do not in most case. I played several diffrent games where pvp is vital part of the gameplay and observed three major problems with Players that grow exponetialy when it comes to PvP.
#set beironic [irony true] :

1. OMFG ROFLCOPTER OLOLOLL --> Troll Kidys. Like the great Barlow of WoW once said: "... premature 13 year olds who were able create an account through a bug in the counterstrike steam software. Their names are Facemeltor, Allysniper or Shadowdeath and they are playing in the Guild Lords of Ownage..."
This type of player either enjoys derespectfull and general asocial behavior towards others or when losing feeling to be entitled to win.

2. Statistic junkys and elitists: This Guys push and post their irrelevant little statistics and DMG record sheets in the face of everybody. Regardless if ons intrested or not. This guys are the reason why there is suddenly only one usable build for an entire character class, (at least in their opinion) and why everybody using something else and still is winning is atomaticaly a cheater.

3. Exploiter: In MW4 this guy would have piloted the jump capable Highlander with only 2 MP, 2 Tonns of Armor, 4 Gauss of diffrent sizes and 1 Clan ER PPC.
This kind of guy would have been banned even by goonswarm for exploiting the expoits in exloits too much.

#unset ironic

[Ferus Torlan]

Just to add in my opinion about saying that PvE holds possibility of a farming ritual for salvaging items, what people don't seem to notice about PvE in MW:O is that it will NOT be like "farming" if salvage is added to it. Why? Because MW:O is a SIMULATION game, like Crysis, it's more dependent on your real-life skill not you character's skill, like WoW. In WoW, every outcome is dependent on numbers which are dictated by the work you put into your character. If you were to grind away on MW:O PvE you would be working every second, the game would have your constant attention. Whereas in WoW, you need only click something once and you've farmed an item. The simulated process of salvage will be much more engaging and rewarding as you plan each attack, line up every shot, and fight every second of the battles. It's important to realize what a gift MW:O is, not just as the the first MW game in a decade, in which it truly is a gift-don't get me wrong, but also the most beautiful and realistic of its kind in my opinion. In this, bringing back PvE and other old MW features in such great beauty and realism will not only inspire eye-watering nostalgia, but also great engagement by MW fans, both new and jaded. It would offer an experience, which would seem to be the main goal of making this game, the experience, of stepping into the neurohelmet of a MECHWARRIOR. Isn't that heavily-pursued experience the cause of this title's immense glorification? What is IN the NAME of this game? MECHWARRIOR. Shouldn't the aim be to create a game about being a mech pilot who fights to pay his fuel and ammo bills? To be the individual who scrounges through the wreckage of his kills just to put guns into the hands of his trusted lancemates? I believe MechWarrior:Online should with at least offer the OPTION to live out a MechWarrior's responsibilities, thrills, worries, spoils and woes. This is just my opinion, but I believe with how stunning this gem of a game looks, it would be the cream of the crop if it allows us to immerse ourselves in the fearsome, awesome world that has inspired the imagination and sense Of adventure in so many individuals. So my dear developers, please, please make this into the clearest window into our beloved world of battletech and not just another pvp game. ( kudos on the pvp part still, it's nothing short of amazing). That's my two, or should I say fifty-something cents on the matter, I love the pvp but the addition of PvE and things like salvage would make me the happiest person in all of the Inner Sphere, in all of the Clans, in all of the spirit that is MechWarrior, I will be happiest.

[xhrit]

There should totally be pve.
pve missions should be objective based, like in mechwarrior 2 : mercs, or mechwarrior 4 : mercs.
pve maps should have random objective locations as well as random start areas.
you should be able to que for pve solo or in a group.
pve missions should reward much less then pvp missions.

[Landron]

seriously are we really still going on about this ? It has been made clear this is a PvP game and they will probably have no intent on ever putting in PvE so why keep this going. PvE in this game would be stupid and pointless. If you dont like the way the game is then honestly get your money back and dont play and move on.

[Rune Scorpio]

I agree PVE would be nice. It would allow people to have something to work at while not fighting other players. Problem with implementing it is to design a properly functioning AI to work with the engine. Thats a huge undertaking to implement properly, and without having some way to pay it off other than standard income of MWO it will be hard to justify I imagine.
Another idea to keep things rolling would be some PVP matches based around the events of the battletech universe and storyline. So invasions or Wolcott and Strana Mechty with participants from the faction members would be really fun. Huge events run by the DEVs would be great.

[M1Combat]

I'm all for it.

I think it should be a bit like Global Agenda's co-op levels. Not their open world MMO type areas but the mission portion where you group up with four other people and complete a mission with a boss and all that.

Would be quite cool.

[Blacksheep One]

Angelkiller777, on 17 August 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

Well in one of he dev interviews they said they tried out PVE first, so that would imply that they have AI scripts for the mechs sitting around somewhere.
Now I would love to see the clans introduced as PVE opponents first. Trying to defend IS territory from their assaults would be a lot of fun.
Or even to have them randomly hot drop into PVP games...

Clan drop ship streaks over head...
The opposing team suddenly reads as friendlies on your IFF...
<Mech power up detected>...
Timber Wolf splashes down 300M from you...

Both teams get XP based on how long they can survive.

This - minus the other team suddenly conning as friendlies - sounds slightly like the Abyss in Aion. (PvPvE - three way battles, two player sides, one NPC.) So it's not unthinkable.

(As a side note, this is a way to get "some" PVE without ignoring PVP - as there are some missions that send you there that you *can* complete solo or with your own team vs NPCs.... but with threat of interruption from others.)

I also agree a PVE "training ground" would be sensible - as well as a player-customized training ground ("I'm having trouble in my assault mech vs a bunch of scouts, how can I deal with it? Let me try out configurations and tactics..." - while AI won't be as good as actual players, it can give you a place to try things out without risk.)

[Molybdenum]

As much as a new, visually stunning mechwarrior PVE game would be cool, MWO seems to be closer to counterstrike with mechs than anything else. Were it to be added, I think PVE would either be a completely seperate entity, or it would simply replace human players with bots in otherwise unchanged game architecture.

[Arafinar]

Hennessey, on 17 August 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I'm not posting this as a question. The idea here is simply to get the ball rolling on ideas of what people would like to see if PVE were ever implemented (especially those more intimate with the canon than I am)!

This post officially breaks my Forum cherry for any game I've ever played . This however, is a topic that I feel deserves a lot of discussion as it seems to me that this will be the difference between a fast paced shooter with quirky (and endearing) mechanics, or an MMO that truly brings something new to the online community. That being said here is why I believe PVE, if done correctly, would make this the game we all want it to be (even the hardcore PVPers):

When I started playing Mechwarrior, oh let's see... about 17 years ago (has it been that long?), the PVP option was mind-blowing to say the least, but only because I had earned the right to be there. I had battled odds of 1:10 and come out on top. I had figured out the best methods for exacting precision kills against fierce (albeit by today's standards 'stupid') AI Mechs. I then defeated their leader at the end of the campaign in a Mech that towered over me and could melt me in one blast.

And for all of this preparation, I entered PVP and got my proverbial handed to me.

After a while it stopped being fun to PVP, and I was forced back into campaign to try to perfect the lessons I had been embarrassed with in PVP. Things like Alpha strikes that didn't cause me to overheat every single time. Things like Jump Jetting and putting a boot on someone's nose .

Things that I had never needed to use in campaign, but would never have a chance to test out in PVP as I was getting obliterated, and no one was willing to help me learn.

Enough nostalgia. My point is by adding an engaging PVE feature to the game, those lulls in between epic clan clashes (that will eventually only take place on Friday night after everyone is home from work), will be filled by you and couple of friends, a hundred of your clan mates, or even a PUG, fighting your way through some random planet only to come up on a GINOURMOUS SPIDER-MECH TOUTING 10 MECHS WORTH OF FIREPOWER, AND NEVER SEEN BEFORE ANYWHERE BY ANYONE IN THE GALAXY ('cept the last time you did it of course ). Then comes the satisfaction that I was pining for the whole time I was getting smashed in PVP: taking that **** down in a collaborated group effort and rejoicing in the spoils as the Boss explodes like a CBill pinata .

Then what really matters in community games like this starts happening:

Later, when you go back to base and add that guy to your friends list who ran in front of you and took a PPC blast for you because he knew it was his duty as an assault Mech. Or the other guy/girl/w/e who orchestrated the main assault by rearing back the Cata's to stay just distant enough to fire off LRMs while the brawlers went in to pound ground.

I'm sure some people (let's be real.... the one person who actually read this far) is asking themselves: "How is this any different than PVP? Er, besides the giant spider thing of course..."

The simple answer is: No fear of defeat.

I'm not saying that a PVE system should be without costs. And, I'm definately not saying that it should be worth so much as to feel mandatory. What I am saying is that there are a lot of people out there who simply won't play a PVP only game because they don't want to feel guilty when they read posts from some brat 12 year old who racks in 6 hours a day EVERY DAY after school, and feels inclined to tell you what a "eFFIn' FAT WERTHLUSS newb L2P POS" you are simply because your clan lost a territory/match/couple bucks

And yes, that will still happen, but if the rewards/loss isn't so great in PVE, then it will happen less.

So, if you're still with me... What does PVE do for PVP?

Keeps it alive for one.

There will come a time, when you/your friends/your clan just aren't having fun fighting the same people week in week out (winning or losing), because one of them has beef with you about a ridiculously long post you made about PVE a while back... This can be a breaking point for a game if there are no alternatives. Not to say that the PVP is weak!!! Hell, I love what they've done so far, and feel it was worth every penny (already) spent just to get a glimpse. However, I don't want this particular franchise to be an 'almost' simply because people are afraid PVP will suffer if PVE is added.

Secondly PVE can be a way for PVPs to hone their skills, come up with new tactics, try out new cadets/builds/CATCH PHRASES! And they can do it all with the comfort of knowing that nobody but them was there to see the SPIDERNATEROVER-9000 decimate their entire clan (difficulty scaling with number of people is a must for a setup like this, so that 1 person can do it or 100), and in the end they thanked him; Simply because he showed them that having an entire team of Jenners simply was not going to cut it .

TLDR; I have played other MMO's and I know there are people who would live entirely in PVP. There are just as many who would live entirely in PVE. I think we should be very supportive of that If we're going to make this game as good as it possibly can be, because once it comes down to it, the people that really love this game like I do, are going to do both, and I think we're the majority.

The sign at the store said "The sale of dead horses has been suspend due to lack of stock"
But one should be present none the less *insert here*.

Again, another thing I hope never happens, pve (cringe)

[Magik0012]

(I've only skimmed this thread, so apologies if this has been covered already.)

Personally, I would love some simple PVE stuff. It doesn't have to be a campaign or anything fancy. It could be as simple as a map/zone that you drop into that contains a hostile base (ammo/parts cache) defended by simple turrets, but tanks, etc. would be nice as well. Capturing the base provides (fictional) resources to your House / Merc Group / whatever. You, of course, earn a few C-bills, similar to the amount you would earn in a PVP drop. You could even get a ton or two of ammo as an extra bonus.

This allows 1) a sort of training / practice environment 2) an extra avenue for C-bill grinding and 3) allows players who are tired of getting rolled in PUGs to still have fun in their Giant Stompy Robots and keep playing MWO without having anger induced aneurysms. This is somewhat similar to what they have in BGO, but without the golden ammo.

Anyway, that's my $0.02

Edited by Magik0012, 20 September 2012 - 01:11 PM.

[Mechafreak]

My 2 cents is that I would love to see PVE elements introduced and I think the Clans would be the perfect starting board. And once the role of clan pilots gets turned over to the players, there are lots of options for continuing a PVE environment. I think that the devs will of course work on getting to general release with just the PVP aspect but after that is done I truly hope they listen to what the fans are asking for and bring in a PVE element.

[ceili]

I'm guessing that a lot of people who would like to see PvE are, like me, slightly grizzled veterans of the MW2/Kali era when we essentially had the best of both worlds, as far as PC technology then would allow. We had a weighty, full-length PvE campaign as well as drop-in PvP (1 v 1 if you wanted) and a full starmap-based PvP tournament with houses, clans, mercs., you name it.

Everything I would like to say about PvE has pretty much been posted already, but as a co-owner of a small indie development studio in the UK, I do need to add that a PvE campaign is not a trivial addition. With the graphical fidelity that everyone has come to expect, as well as intelligent map and mission design, the resources required are enormous. Someone would have to pay for that and that someone would be us, the players - a F2P game cannot be all things to all people. As an aside, AI is, frankly, a trivial part of the development process and these is no need to expect AI that harks back 20 years; after all, 'mechs are just walking tanks with limited turret rotation as far as coding is concerned and it is a fairly simple task these days to build code which ranges from walkover to impossible to beat. The iterations are very well known.

Basically, I wanted an up-to-date version of MW2 with all the things we used to have, but I'm not going to get it. Not yet anyway, so I guess I'll have to put up with the odd bit of abuse from the random 13 year old, sat there picking his spots, spewing bile into the ether. I have to say, though, in all the games I've played, I have only encountered two people I would have liked to have revoked their Beta access on the spot, but they didn't ruin it for me. Looks like the MWO community, so far, is better than many, many other games. (Don't poke your head into the Beta forums if you want that image ruined though!)

Anyway, here are some quotes from Russ Bullock, dated last month from Dualshockers which basically state that, yes, there will be a tutorial area and, no, there won't be PvE unless the current PvP model is successful. Fair enough.

Great thread, with only one troll comment so far. I'd love to know why Landron thinks PvE is 'stupid and pointless' rather than 'just because it is', because there may be some revelation there that makes us all think 'You know, he's right. Let's stop asking for PvE.' *cough*

Quote

G: While I can’t wait to be able to tear a few Mechs apart online in MechWarrior Online, theMechWarrior franchise has always been heavily story-driven, also powered by some great sci-fi novels. Are all projects for a story-driven single player game shelved, or we can still hope for surprises, maybe in the wake of a possible success of MechWarrior Online?

R: Well I think you said it. All plans for a single player product are shelved for the time being, as we are focused solely on PVP combat. The fact that it has been a full decade or more since the last true MechWarrior title means that we’re on a mission to revive the brand and bring it to modern gamers. However with a successful launch MechWarrior Online, I’m hopeful that a big new single player title would be just around the corner; the future holds the answer.

Quote

G: On that train of thought, since there definitely is a segment of players that prefer cooperative multiplayer to competitive, have you ever considered introducing PvE missions in the future, with players prompted to team up and fight against AI-controlled opposing forces? Maybe as part of an actual storyline?

R: I think the answer is similar to this question as the last. Having said that, I think this could possibly be a first step in bridging towards a more full traditional single player experience. It’s safe to say that the PvE question is one of the most popular and it is probably one of the very first things we will explore once our core game is complete and we go Open Beta.

Edited by ceili, 20 September 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Hennessey]

Ceili, beautifully said ^ I'm happy to see the thread is still alive!

[DJMarine]

The Basilisk, on 21 August 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Tripple bows for Hennessey !!!
I think the most common argument for people who prefer PvP ultimativly to PvE is the general lack of flexibility and skill of the AIs. My answer to that is and will be for ever:

I don't think that's the main argument against it at all. The problem is pulling resources away from the core of the game, PvP. Plus, it's not a winning formula for these type of games. Throwing bots into a map for practice is one thing, but fully fleshed out PvE content? No thanks. No skill based shooter, sim, tactical, etc game of this nature has successfully implemented a PvE world into a core PvP game. Those who have tried, Global Agenda, failed. The main complaint against that game is that the devs should have picked one route or the other, instead of trying to appease both sides by incorporating PvE into a PvP style game.

You won't see PvE content in PlanetSide 2, no one complains there. If PS2 is good enough to be strictly PvP, then why not MWO?

[DragonToe]

I also think there should be some PVE.

Some of the PVE boss encounters could lead to unlock special mechs, weapons or perks. For instance clan tech later in the game could be accessed only if you beat certain pve scenarios.

[FlimFlam]

I think that PVE has no place in this PVP game.

[Odanan]

Hennessey, on 17 August 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I'm not posting this as a question. The idea here is simply to get the ball rolling on ideas of what people would like to see if PVE were ever implemented (especially those more intimate with the canon than I am)!

This post officially breaks my Forum cherry for any game I've ever played . This however, is a topic that I feel deserves a lot of discussion as it seems to me that this will be the difference between a fast paced shooter with quirky (and endearing) mechanics, or an MMO that truly brings something new to the online community. That being said here is why I believe PVE, if done correctly, would make this the game we all want it to be (even the hardcore PVPers):

When I started playing Mechwarrior, oh let's see... about 17 years ago (has it been that long?), the PVP option was mind-blowing to say the least, but only because I had earned the right to be there. I had battled odds of 1:10 and come out on top. I had figured out the best methods for exacting precision kills against fierce (albeit by today's standards 'stupid') AI Mechs. I then defeated their leader at the end of the campaign in a Mech that towered over me and could melt me in one blast.

And for all of this preparation, I entered PVP and got my proverbial handed to me.

After a while it stopped being fun to PVP, and I was forced back into campaign to try to perfect the lessons I had been embarrassed with in PVP. Things like Alpha strikes that didn't cause me to overheat every single time. Things like Jump Jetting and putting a boot on someone's nose .

Things that I had never needed to use in campaign, but would never have a chance to test out in PVP as I was getting obliterated, and no one was willing to help me learn.

Enough nostalgia. My point is by adding an engaging PVE feature to the game, those lulls in between epic clan clashes (that will eventually only take place on Friday night after everyone is home from work), will be filled by you and couple of friends, a hundred of your clan mates, or even a PUG, fighting your way through some random planet only to come up on a GINOURMOUS SPIDER-MECH TOUTING 10 MECHS WORTH OF FIREPOWER, AND NEVER SEEN BEFORE ANYWHERE BY ANYONE IN THE GALAXY ('cept the last time you did it of course ). Then comes the satisfaction that I was pining for the whole time I was getting smashed in PVP: taking that **** down in a collaborated group effort and rejoicing in the spoils as the Boss explodes like a CBill pinata .

Then what really matters in community games like this starts happening:

Later, when you go back to base and add that guy to your friends list who ran in front of you and took a PPC blast for you because he knew it was his duty as an assault Mech. Or the other guy/girl/w/e who orchestrated the main assault by rearing back the Cata's to stay just distant enough to fire off LRMs while the brawlers went in to pound ground.

I'm sure some people (let's be real.... the one person who actually read this far) is asking themselves: "How is this any different than PVP? Er, besides the giant spider thing of course..."

The simple answer is: No fear of defeat.

I'm not saying that a PVE system should be without costs. And, I'm definately not saying that it should be worth so much as to feel mandatory. What I am saying is that there are a lot of people out there who simply won't play a PVP only game because they don't want to feel guilty when they read posts from some brat 12 year old who racks in 6 hours a day EVERY DAY after school, and feels inclined to tell you what a "eFFIn' FAT WERTHLUSS newb L2P POS" you are simply because your clan lost a territory/match/couple bucks

And yes, that will still happen, but if the rewards/loss isn't so great in PVE, then it will happen less.

So, if you're still with me... What does PVE do for PVP?

Keeps it alive for one.

There will come a time, when you/your friends/your clan just aren't having fun fighting the same people week in week out (winning or losing), because one of them has beef with you about a ridiculously long post you made about PVE a while back... This can be a breaking point for a game if there are no alternatives. Not to say that the PVP is weak!!! Hell, I love what they've done so far, and feel it was worth every penny (already) spent just to get a glimpse. However, I don't want this particular franchise to be an 'almost' simply because people are afraid PVP will suffer if PVE is added.

Secondly PVE can be a way for PVPs to hone their skills, come up with new tactics, try out new cadets/builds/CATCH PHRASES! And they can do it all with the comfort of knowing that nobody but them was there to see the SPIDERNATEROVER-9000 decimate their entire clan (difficulty scaling with number of people is a must for a setup like this, so that 1 person can do it or 100), and in the end they thanked him; Simply because he showed them that having an entire team of Jenners simply was not going to cut it .

TLDR; I have played other MMO's and I know there are people who would live entirely in PVP. There are just as many who would live entirely in PVE. I think we should be very supportive of that If we're going to make this game as good as it possibly can be, because once it comes down to it, the people that really love this game like I do, are going to do both, and I think we're the majority.

My dream would be a MW2:M remake but I know a standard singleplayer game is out of question, so we need to use the resources already in MWO.

I liked what Valve did to TF2. It was an PVP only game, then they added bots and finally cooperative gameplay (Mann vs Machine).

I think this game would be amazing with a cooperative mode. Something like Clan Invasion. You and your friends will defend the base against waves and waves of clan mechs with increasing difficult. That would work. Are you reading this, PGI guys?