161 replies to this topic

[Telecleez]

i like the idea a lot...

i think co-op would be a great idea kinda like the co-op they had for America's Army where like a company of PC mechs could take on like a battalion of enemy NPC mechs as they try to make their way to an objective like destroy a certain object or two maybe have to take out the bat's command lance and then they would have to make it to an extraction zone to win...

just an idea for a co-op

[Alex Wolfe]

Please no

Hennessey, on 17 August 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

GINOURMOUS SPIDER-MECH TOUTING 10 MECHS WORTH OF FIREPOWER, AND NEVER SEEN BEFORE ANYWHERE BY ANYONE IN THE GALAXY ('cept the last time you did it of course ).

...if at all possible. That's the kind of stuff that blows an otherwise nice setting to bits. It's an MMO sim, not an MMORPG, I don't feel like raids against uber-super-robots developers have to pull out of a hat, or having to grind mecha-boars would be the way to go.

Vs. bots gameplay, survival, assault on an AI-controlled base complete with turrets... I can dig it. No mech-Godzilla though.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 18 August 2012 - 01:16 AM.

[Oxford]

So instead of a giant killer robot make a scenario that is consistent with the fluff. You have to fight your way to a spaceport and catch a Union or Overlord dropship on the ground and destroy it before it can refuel and evacuate some VIP.
I seem to recall almost that exact mission from MW2.

[Adrienne Vorton]

co-op vs. clans... many discussions about this for a while now....and for my taste THE way to introduce them... and there is no "No, that won´t happen" from developers side...so who knows:)

since PGI HAS been working on a singleplayer title (though noone knows how far they were) there COULD be at least some basics in their desk... we can hope, but we shouldn´t rage if it doesn´t happen... hope for the best, expect the worst, best i can do

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 18 August 2012 - 01:38 AM.

[Icebound]

Yeah this game needs PvE right away to grab that segment of the market. A lot of people despise PvP, but if they threw in a PvE mode I think a lot more people would swarm this game for the added diversity.

[Daohor OzFey]

A very thought out post indeed, and I am prolly one of the few that are willing to say that I want both in this. As the OP said it would be a great way to hone youre tactics perhaps even learn a few new tricks. But we'll see if it ever gets thought over by PGI. *crosses fingers, toes and ears.* **ouch that last bit hurts dont cross youre ears folks**

[Tal Kath Naabal]

Herbert Daring Dashwood, on 18 August 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

Angelkiller777, on 17 August 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

Well in one of he dev interviews they said they tried out PVE first, so that would imply that they have AI scripts for the mechs sitting around somewhere.
Now I would love to see the clans introduced as PVE opponents first. Trying to defend IS territory from their assaults would be a lot of fun.
Or even to have them randomly hot drop into PVP games...

Clan drop ship streaks over head...
The opposing team suddenly reads as friendlies on your IFF...
<Mech power up detected>...
Timber Wolf splashes down 300M from you...

Both teams get XP based on how long they can survive.

This. This.

Oh My god, think, a year or so from now they host a tournament, in the final match as the two greatest mech-Corps/Houses are slinging it out, being watched by thousands, hundereds of clan Mechs rain from the skies, controlled by AI's. That would be amazing, then they could introduce "Defence" where two lances of Mechs hold off waves of Clan Mechs.


Someone needs to show this to the devs. twice.

Agreed...

...x10^8

Many other great Ideas here as well! My votes for it!

Edited by Tal Kath Naabal, 18 August 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[Adelic]

I would love to see PvE like in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. Shouldn't be as difficult or as time consuming as having to write an entire campain/missions.

[Darzok]

It would be nice to have a fun smashing up some AI units now and then but i would not want it to turn the game in to a PVE heavy game i am here to smash some poor guys mech in to the ground not just none stop bash the AI.

[Herbert Daring Dashwood]

Ok, thought a bit about the Clan "Drop" Idea.

After the first "Great Drop" in the middle of that tournament battle (that shizz would be cray) every other battle, official and pub and thusforth, has a %50 of turning into a desperate defence against hordes of clan Mechs, as a reward for their efforts the players get the clan-tech weapons from the Mechs they destroy, and if they destroy, say, 4 Clan Mechs they get a random one as salvage. after a month or so of invasion Clan Mechs become available on the open market (for an inflated C Bill Price) and players are able to join the Clans by paying IRL Monies. That will keep the casuals out, and make the clans something of a privilege, I would like some form of minimum skill level to be implemented (before one can join a clan they gotta pass a trial) but in this day and age it's unlikely.

After that some form of randomised mission PvE would be fun, defend the convoy, attack the convoy, defend the base, attack the base etc etc etc.

[ninjanivek]

PVE should be part of this legendary game. In most mmo's i have found that its entirely based on PAY TO WIN, which becomes overwhelmingly annoying when one team has all the superb gear, while you are stuck with a team of new players who have no specs.

If PVE is implemented in any shape or form, it should be just as challenging as PVP, but quite entertaining with the ability to accumalate EXP, CB, and tactical and strategic information of how to better play the game.

Nivek

[Kyrie]

PvE could be a worthwhile addition; however, I would not want community warfare delayed to see PvE. :-) Its one of those ancillary things that could be an awesome addition way down the development pipeline.

That being said -- I love the idea of introducing the Clans with AI invasion. :-)

[Sternus]

Hennessey, on 17 August 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I'm not posting this as a question. The idea here is simply to get the ball rolling on ideas of what people would like to see if PVE were ever implemented (especially those more intimate with the canon than I am)!

This post officially breaks my Forum cherry for any game I've ever played . This however, is a topic that I feel deserves a lot of discussion as it seems to me that this will be the difference between a fast paced shooter with quirky (and endearing) mechanics, or an MMO that truly brings something new to the online community. That being said here is why I believe PVE, if done correctly, would make this the game we all want it to be (even the hardcore PVPers):

When I started playing Mechwarrior, oh let's see... about 17 years ago (has it been that long?), the PVP option was mind-blowing to say the least, but only because I had earned the right to be there. I had battled odds of 1:10 and come out on top. I had figured out the best methods for exacting precision kills against fierce (albeit by today's standards 'stupid') AI Mechs. I then defeated their leader at the end of the campaign in a Mech that towered over me and could melt me in one blast.

And for all of this preparation, I entered PVP and got my proverbial handed to me.

After a while it stopped being fun to PVP, and I was forced back into campaign to try to perfect the lessons I had been embarrassed with in PVP. Things like Alpha strikes that didn't cause me to overheat every single time. Things like Jump Jetting and putting a boot on someone's nose .

Things that I had never needed to use in campaign, but would never have a chance to test out in PVP as I was getting obliterated, and no one was willing to help me learn.

Enough nostalgia. My point is by adding an engaging PVE feature to the game, those lulls in between epic clan clashes (that will eventually only take place on Friday night after everyone is home from work), will be filled by you and couple of friends, a hundred of your clan mates, or even a PUG, fighting your way through some random planet only to come up on a GINOURMOUS SPIDER-MECH TOUTING 10 MECHS WORTH OF FIREPOWER, AND NEVER SEEN BEFORE ANYWHERE BY ANYONE IN THE GALAXY ('cept the last time you did it of course ). Then comes the satisfaction that I was pining for the whole time I was getting smashed in PVP: taking that **** down in a collaborated group effort and rejoicing in the spoils as the Boss explodes like a CBill pinata .

Then what really matters in community games like this starts happening:

Later, when you go back to base and add that guy to your friends list who ran in front of you and took a PPC blast for you because he knew it was his duty as an assault Mech. Or the other guy/girl/w/e who orchestrated the main assault by rearing back the Cata's to stay just distant enough to fire off LRMs while the brawlers went in to pound ground.

I'm sure some people (let's be real.... the one person who actually read this far) is asking themselves: "How is this any different than PVP? Er, besides the giant spider thing of course..."

The simple answer is: No fear of defeat.

I'm not saying that a PVE system should be without costs. And, I'm definately not saying that it should be worth so much as to feel mandatory. What I am saying is that there are a lot of people out there who simply won't play a PVP only game because they don't want to feel guilty when they read posts from some brat 12 year old who racks in 6 hours a day EVERY DAY after school, and feels inclined to tell you what a "eFFIn' FAT WERTHLUSS newb L2P POS" you are simply because your clan lost a territory/match/couple bucks

And yes, that will still happen, but if the rewards/loss isn't so great in PVE, then it will happen less.

So, if you're still with me... What does PVE do for PVP?

Keeps it alive for one.

There will come a time, when you/your friends/your clan just aren't having fun fighting the same people week in week out (winning or losing), because one of them has beef with you about a ridiculously long post you made about PVE a while back... This can be a breaking point for a game if there are no alternatives. Not to say that the PVP is weak!!! Hell, I love what they've done so far, and feel it was worth every penny (already) spent just to get a glimpse. However, I don't want this particular franchise to be an 'almost' simply because people are afraid PVP will suffer if PVE is added.

Secondly PVE can be a way for PVPs to hone their skills, come up with new tactics, try out new cadets/builds/CATCH PHRASES! And they can do it all with the comfort of knowing that nobody but them was there to see the SPIDERNATEROVER-9000 decimate their entire clan (difficulty scaling with number of people is a must for a setup like this, so that 1 person can do it or 100), and in the end they thanked him; Simply because he showed them that having an entire team of Jenners simply was not going to cut it .

TLDR; I have played other MMO's and I know there are people who would live entirely in PVP. There are just as many who would live entirely in PVE. I think we should be very supportive of that If we're going to make this game as good as it possibly can be, because once it comes down to it, the people that really love this game like I do, are going to do both, and I think we're the majority.

I started playing this game in the (forelorn?) hope that PvE would be implemented at some point. If i just wanted a PvP ONLY game i would play "The Tank Game That Shall Remain Nameless."

[Sternus]

BrokenGlytch, on 18 August 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

It's worth pointing out that the easiest way to get PvE is the 'best' way to get PvE, at least in terms of programming and development requirement. To that end, while I agree with basically everything in this post and think (as a MechWarrior player since the original MW2) that it would be fantastic to have complex scripted or semi-scripted PvE again in a Mech game that didn't blow, we should start small and see if it catches on.

That said, I want to see the initial PvE work just like the co-op mode in MechWarrior 3's arsenal. For those unfamiliar or in need of a refresher; the player or players (up to a lance of 4 if I recall) selected their mechs and their specific variants, then spawned at a predetermined location in the map. AI Waves would spawn in outside of a minimum range and their sole objective was the annihilation of every player mech. Waves generally started 'easy' with just a couple light mechs, and the last wave was mixed with heavies, assaults, and a gnat or two since you had bigger fish to fry. I seem to remember being able to manually configure them for fitting testing / custom challenges as well, but it's been many years since I had a computer that could run MW3 stable. It just didn't make the transition to Vista/7 well.

TL;DR - To make PvE easy to implement, it should be 1-8 (4 optimal) players vs scalable waves that get progressively tougher with the sole objective of approaching players and killing them, perhaps optionally with manually configurable waves for custom matches and semi-randomized waves normally. Realistically you could even do endless waves and rank teams by how long they survive / how little damage they take in a time limit / how much damage they inflict in a time limit or before everyone dies, etc. to make PvE competitive as well.

I do agree with this idea but STORY driven campaigns would appeal to those who are hopelessly addicted to the mmorpg style of game. I am hoping to see wortwhile content in this arena before TOO long as, lets face it, PvP is not for me. I have been playing the Battletech TT game since '89 and the Mechwarrior TTRPG since about '94. My preference is certainly for the latter.

[Bagheera]

To the OP:

Welcome to the wild and wacky world of gaming forums, and massive kudos on your well reasoned post. Especially since it's made 2 pages so far without much sign of trolling!

That said, I will be the dissenting voice against PvE in MW:O and here is why:

First and foremost: I do not want MW:O to become this:

http://www.mcgamelan...997B8F91?id=148

Where big groups of enemy mechs stand around and wait for me to show up and harvest them for parts. Which is the hallmark of the MMO gameplay experience. WoW, CoX, SWToR, and pretty much every single one I have ever tried plays with exactly the same (imo boring and repetitive) gameplay. I do realize that this is not exactly what is being advocated, but I want to use this as a starting point.

Second: If my MMO experience has taught me anythng, it is that MMO games with a PvE and PvP element cannot balance player abilities for both scenarios. CoX is the prime example of this. PvP as it was originally introduced into that game was rediculously fun. And it was the travel powers (flight, super leaping, super speeding, teleporting) that made it interesting and dynamic. However, as the developers attempted to respond to player complaints it was essentially ruined by adding all sorts of mechanics that were not necessary in the PvE game. For those familiar I am speaking of Travel Suppression, DR, and Heal Decay, among other tweaks that ruined PvP in that game.

Third: MW:O is not targeting the MMO player market. It's just a different game. In order to appeal to the MMO crowd, we would have to introduce all sorts of things that would not fit here. For example, farming and crafting. Please, no. The day farming enters this game, I am gone. The MMO market is not going to accept (by and large, Planetside players excluded) a game where aiming is required and the RNG plays no part in combat. The market, by and large, will also not accept a game where player "level" does not equate to relative power. It's just the wrong market. We're not a shooter per se, but we are closer to that market than we are to the MMO market in game mechanics. The day that MW:O becomes the type of game where I cannot damage someone because they are level 50 and I am level 45, I am gone.

Fouth: Taking an example from CoX that I actually thought was VERY cool, I would prefer to see the initial clan invasion driven by the developers, not an AI, and then handed to players after a certain point. As CoX fleshed out the relationship between competing dimensions there would be regular "Invasions" where a Dev driven team of characters (and AI driven allies) would show up in Zone and players would attempt to turn them back. Really fun stuff, and this could work well without the AI component (as AI opponents are always easy to defeat) since we are talking smaller matches rather than big open maps with potentially hundreds of players at a time.

Finally: Developer resources. I would rather they make the absolutely best and most fully featured PvP game in their original vision than to have them spread their resources for both PvP and PvE, and excelling at neither.

I understand the appeal for PvE, but I sincerely feel that MW:O is not the place for it.

Edited by Bagheera, 18 August 2012 - 03:42 AM.

[TizZ]

It is usually the case PVE comes first then PVP , even in development so The programing has very probably already been created , So perhaps there might well be single or co-op missions once a week to complete or something , A training mode where you can just field mechs to try out load outs / heat etc ..

Personally I would love to see some PVE as well as PVP but bear in mind MWO is about team v team PVP but who knows what the future might bring . The devs seem to listen to people , but never expect anything over night just possibly something in the future .

[Gaiastrider]

Epitaph, on 17 August 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

I agree some sort of PVE should be implemented. Even if its not specifically a PVE game mode, but just like adding AI non-mech vehicles to matches for a bit of variety.

I'm also a firm believer the Clans should be PVE at first, opening to players after some time.

I was thinking exactly this when I read the OP.

[Sternus]

Bagheera, on 18 August 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

To the OP:

Welcome to the wild and wacky world of gaming forums, and massive kudos on your well reasoned post. Especially since it's made 2 pages so far without much sign of trolling!

That said, I will be the dissenting voice against PvE in MW:O and here is why:

First and foremost: I do not want MW:O to become this:

http://www.mcgamelan...997B8F91?id=148

Where big groups of enemy mechs stand around and wait for me to show up and harvest them for parts. Which is the hallmark of the MMO gameplay experience. WoW, CoX, SWToR, and pretty much every single one I have ever tried plays with exactly the same (imo boring and repetitive) gameplay. I do realize that this is not exactly what is being advocated, but I want to use this as a starting point.

Second: If my MMO experience has taught me anythng, it is that MMO games with a PvE and PvP element cannot balance player abilities for both scenarios. CoX is the prime example of this. PvP as it was originally introduced into that game was rediculously fun. And it was the travel powers (flight, super leaping, super speeding, teleporting) that made it interesting and dynamic. However, as the developers attempted to respond to player complaints it was essentially ruined by adding all sorts of mechanics that were not necessary in the PvE game. For those familiar I am speaking of Travel Suppression, DR, and Heal Decay, among other tweaks that ruined PvP in that game.

Third: MW:O is not targeting the MMO player market. It's just a different game. In order to appeal to the MMO crowd, we would have to introduce all sorts of things that would not fit here. For example, farming and crafting. Please, no. The day farming enters this game, I am gone. The MMO market is not going to accept (by and large, Planetside players excluded) a game where aiming is required and the RNG plays no part in combat. The market, by and large, will also not accept a game where player "level" does not equate to relative power. It's just the wrong market. We're not a shooter per se, but we are closer to that market than we are to the MMO market in game mechanics. The day that MW:O becomes the type of game where I cannot damage someone because they are level 50 and I am level 45, I am gone.

Fouth: Taking an example from CoX that I actually thought was VERY cool, I would prefer to see the initial clan invasion driven by the developers, not an AI, and then handed to players after a certain point. As CoX fleshed out the relationship between competing dimensions there would be regular "Invasions" where a Dev driven team of characters (and AI driven allies) would show up in Zone and players would attempt to turn them back. Really fun stuff, and this could work well without the AI component (as AI opponents are always easy to defeat) since we are talking smaller matches rather than big open maps with potentially hundreds of players at a time.

Finally: Developer resources. I would rather they make the absolutely best and most fully featured PvP game in their original vision than to have them spread their resources for both PvP and PvE, and excelling at neither.

I understand the appeal for PvE, but I sincerely feel that MW:O is not the place for it.

All of this could be rectified by simply dividing the Battlemech stable into two parts : Tournament 'mechs and Campaign 'mechs. The level basis for campaigning would have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on PvP and the rewards earned in that arena would have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on the PvE setting. In this way those who dislike PvE (and the aforementioned MMORPG cookie cutter format) would NEVER have to cross that line. In reciprocal form those who dislike PvP (read: World of Tanks on feet) would Never have to cross THAT line. Those who have a taste for both would be able to "walk" from one 'mechbay to the next to participate in which ever environment they felt like dabbling in, without ever disrupting the gameflow of the other. The game is called Mechwarrior online after all, not Battletech online.
I absolutely believe that you should not earn, say, a Daishi in PvE and be able to field it in PvP. If you havent EARNED it for PvP you cant field it until you do. Likewise xp, variants unlocked, etc, earned in PvP should NOT transfer to PvE. It may seem a complex task to implement this idea, and i am sure that it isnt a simple one. Yet it would definately be worth it in terms of long range REplayability, and it just makes better fiscal sense to at least attempt to cater to all. I do not want another Star Trek online flop, so if it takes a year or two so be it.
As long as Our Blessed Developers are patient, thorough, and dedicated i think that we will see this incarnation of Mechwarrior more flexible and adaptable, with a stronger paying subscriber base, than most if not all other MMO's and MMORPG's on the market.

[jakucha]

I'd like PvE to include enemy infantry and tanks, but that would require new models and stuff to be made.

[Sternus]

jakucha, on 18 August 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

I'd like PvE to include enemy infantry and tanks, but that would require new models and stuff to be made.

There exists a VAST wealth of cg based BT/MW vehicles in the previous editions of the game. It will happen eventually i think simply because this game is gonna ROCK once its ready to go live.