157 replies to this topic

[DragonClaw]

Well, the way i see it is a commander is only as good as his team. A teammate that goes in a role of a scout that try to take over as commander will cause problems for the whole team. This will happed from time to time. But I hope i wont see this.

[Aegis Kleais]

Not only am I virtually remapping via photoshop/word docs what game functions go where onto my joystick in preparation of MWO, I'm also re-familiarizing myself with Voice Procedure, which are the rules/guidelines for short, succinct and effective radio communications.

I plan on getting with a Merc Corp/Clan that uses these constantly. It makes coordinated gameplay all the more enjoyable.

[m0nk33]

Aegis Kleais™, on 02 February 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Not only am I virtually remapping via photoshop/word docs what game functions go where onto my joystick in preparation of MWO, I'm also re-familiarizing myself with Voice Procedure, which are the rules/guidelines for short, succinct and effective radio communications.

I plan on getting with a Merc Corp/Clan that uses these constantly. It makes coordinated gameplay all the more enjoyable.

Any chance you would have a way to share said voice procedure sir?

[AdamBaines]

In the end, this issue will sort itself out. People will be attracted to the able "commanders" and shun the not so sharp ones. After a while someone who is a bad commander, and no one following them will either get it and take a new roles or leave the game. Either way it will sort itself out. I'm not to concerned about this issue.

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

Kay Wolf, on 02 February 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Adridos, I'm going to quote a post you made in the Q&A4 thread, but it's only because your post is indicative of many others I read in that thread, not because I'm trying to pick on you, alright?


I'm afraid I'm gettin' pretty tired of the commander bashing, so I need to ask you guys, as a commander and a leader -not always the same thing-, why are several of you bashing on commanders and those who've chosen to take on a leadership role?

I mean, if you don't trust your commander, or you don't trust the guy that's going to be in a drop with you that is appointed to be a commander, even if they're not in a Command role, then why not step up and become a commander yourself, or take the lead in a drop if you don't trust anyone else to lead you properly?

I'm honestly not trying to cause any sort of division or trouble, here, I'm simply seeking an honest answer, and I am seeing a LOT of commander bashing out there. Why? If you join a unit because you know you're not a leader, or not a very good one, then what criteria do you use to determine who a good leader would be for you, and why would anyone complain about their chosen unit's leader once they're in the unit? If you're not confident in your leader, or know for a fact you could do a better job, please become a lone wolf or start your own unit, don't keep bashing those who decide to take on what can be a greatly difficult job.

Now, I'm also curious to see if there will be any sort of special program to determine who are capable of being leaders in MWO and who are not, but I have a feeling PGI is going to take the route of not messing with what's already come before, and I don't blame them. At least we'll have the opportunity to have leaders, through the Command Role, in this game, and that's a step up from previous Leagues, far better than we've ever seen.

There is no such thing as a perfect commander because, just like every single one of you, except for training we've received in the real world and/or what we've learned through heading up online units, we're just as clueless as everyone else is. The differences are that education and the fact we have cajones large enough to say, "Hey, guys, come over here if you want someone to take care of training, discipline and paperwork so you can go have fun!"

My qualifications as a leader are, I've eventually been placed in charge of all but two jobs I've ever had in my life because I'm trustworthy, hard working, and not afraid to make decisions. That's four burger joints, JC Penney for three Christmas seasons straight, the U.S. Army for 6 years (where I ran the Regiment Aviation Life Support Equipment Shop for eighteen months by myself, fresh out of ALSE school, and where I was in charge of two squads of mechanics fixing Blackhawk helicopters for a full month, as a Specialist (E4)), and Industrial Hydraulics where I was the Shop Steward/Manager for four months before that business closed their doors (money problems, not anything I did), and Sikorsky Support Services, Incorporated (where I built the RESET Production Control office from scratch without prior training and exceeded U.S. Army standards, and then was given a larger PC office that I had to retool because the previous employee had it completely screwed up), is my experience. I've been in leadership all my adult life, and some of my teenage life, and I've got almost fourteen years of running my unit online in various Leagues.

Many of those out there who are claiming to be commanders and/or leaders are in the same boat, lots of experience, both in the real world and in game. So, why all the bashing?

Nice resume KW, some one has to do the planing,look forward to seeing you in the game..............Salute Whiskey

[Threat Doc]

firefox117, on 02 February 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

You can yell and scream at anyone you want online, and act tough, but they dont want to take that role on themselves for the same reason. People are always going to complain. The issue is that whether you like it or not, you should still follow the commander. Most the time people are trying to do their best, and at least let them try. After that, then either step up and do it yourself, or sit back and **** up.

I hope that I will never raise my voice to that level, never have to, because a calm voice means more likely there's a calm brain, and that's reassuring to those under your command, and it seems less like you're "bossing them around" than being in command of the battlefield. The goal is to allow people to believe they're actually following a commander rather than some jackass with a megaphone and a BattleGrid sized mallet.

DaZur, on 02 February 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Quite honestly (and I hate to paint with such a wide brush) I cannot think of any commander I've played under that could not put aside their ego and take constructive criticism and or suggestion...

(raises hand) About 85% of all the decisions that have been made in AU over the last 14 years have come from constructive criticism, suggestions, and discussion. If the individuals, who are not under real-world contract and are not being paid, feel like they can contribute and make positive changes, they become a good deal more willing to participate. I listen.

Quote

That said, this is a new game, new community for me and I'll hold judgement for when the cow-pies hit the fan.

Hehe. Me too.

Dihm, on 02 February 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Plus, if one of our people bad mouth us as commanders without being constructive, they'll learn where the door is pretty quick.

Add to that bad-mouthing others in the unit; as a commander, we absolutely have to look to the welfare of others, whether or not we're actually responsible for them in the real-world. If we don't look out for one-another during those times we're sharing forum space, talking on TeamSpeak (thank you NGNG guys!), or dropping into training or combat, then we're just hurting ourselves and the rest of the unit in the process. I have wide shoulders, and I can take a lot, but like a big brother is with his little brother, I'm the only one that can beat on him, hehe.

Helmer, on 02 February 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I'd imagine many of us on the boards are older professionals who are in their daily life, leaders.

(raises hand) Presently unemployed, but a professional with leadership responsibilities in just about every job I've ever had nonetheless.

Quote

Being someone who is counted on to stick to their job and get it done. I know it makes a commanders job easier. It comes down to the individuals who play.

Bless you, and thank you.

Quote

Some think they are better commanders or leaders than what they actually are, and no one wants to get stuck in a random drop with someone who doesn't know what they are doing. That being said, I agree with some of the above posts. The Commander/Leadership role is TOUGH. And people like a ScapeGoat. Teams that drop together, have an effective Commander/Leader, and work well together will always prevail. Just more incentive to join a group with friends and drop with them.

+1

[Threat Doc]

whiskey tango foxtrot, on 02 February 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Nice resume KW, some one has to do the planing,look forward to seeing you in the game..............Salute Whiskey

<RS> Thank you, kind sir.

Has anyone else noticed the number of Likes seems to have increased?

[Dataman]

because people don't want some 'who is this guy' commands him in a match based game, especially if he believes he's an expert

[name51875]

Why are we picking Commanders? Simple, to blame and shoot at when they bring His/Her troops to their doom.

Edited by Viper Centurion, 02 February 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

m0nk33, on 02 February 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Any chance you would have a way to share said voice procedure sir?

Sure. I'm doing a rather in-depth one. When I feel I have a good chunk done up I'll try to make a post of it.

[Joanna Conners]

Why is everyone thinking the commander is the leader? They don't have to be. They can be nothing more than intel, reporting information to the team.

The concept was perfect in Chromehounds and I'm excited to see it here. Having better intel than the enemy can often lead to a win.

[firefox117]

Viper Centurion, on 02 February 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Why are we picking Commanders? Simple, to blame and shoot at when they bring His/Her troops to their doom.

You dont always win. Sometimes you just gotta send you troops out and pray for the best. I am in the Army, so I get to see a lot of first hand training and what not. As a leader, its not always easy to choose a path. Sometimes you just got to go and make the best choice. It doesnt fall on the leader either. After reading through the developers blogs, it seems that this whole system works together. So, for you guys running around in recon mechs, if youre not sending anything ot the commander, or just running off into combat, how is he going to be able to assist everyone else. Same as the assault/defense guys. We all have a role to play to help out everyone else. If someone decides to do his own thing, they we are screwing everyone over, but the commander will get blamed for it. In the end, its going to fall on everyone to assist that commander, and the commander himself to make the best decisions.

[Harrow]

firefox117, on 02 February 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

You dont always win. Sometimes you just gotta send you troops out and pray for the best. I am in the Army, so I get to see a lot of first hand training and what not. As a leader, its not always easy to choose a path. Sometimes you just got to go and make the best choice. It doesnt fall on the leader either. After reading through the developers blogs, it seems that this whole system works together. So, for you guys running around in recon mechs, if youre not sending anything ot the commander, or just running off into combat, how is he going to be able to assist everyone else. Same as the assault/defense guys. We all have a role to play to help out everyone else. If someone decides to do his own thing, they we are screwing everyone over, but the commander will get blamed for it. In the end, its going to fall on everyone to assist that commander, and the commander himself to make the best decisions.

During my time in the Army we had a saying: Do the job, come home.

[m0nk33]

Aegis Kleais™, on 02 February 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Sure. I'm doing a rather in-depth one. When I feel I have a good chunk done up I'll try to make a post of it.

Sweeeet!! I may be a lowly lone wolf but I want to try and be as invaluable a member as possible to all the teams I work with.

I very much agree with all those who have commented that it's as a team that we win or lose, not a individuals. No one person should necessarily hold more blame than another, if the commander is bad step up and lead or keep your mouth shut and lose with honor.

Edited by m0nk33, 02 February 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[Kaemon]

Aegis Kleais™, on 02 February 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Sure. I'm doing a rather in-depth one. When I feel I have a good chunk done up I'll try to make a post of it.

A standard MW:O Comspeak would be fun...not so much for the new peeps at Go Live.

'I need Pink Thunder on that Hula, now!'

'Huh? Pinkawhat?'

'C'mon don't Aegis this man, Just Hayden his *** and keep it moving...'

'Ummm, where's the 'Aegis' button...ohh...dang' *explosions*

'Sitrep Actual 6, Scout is Kaemoned...repeat...Scout is Kae'ed...over'.

Edited by Kaemon, 02 February 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[CoffiNail]

Demona, on 02 February 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Why is everyone thinking the commander is the leader? They don't have to be. They can be nothing more than intel, reporting information to the team.

The concept was perfect in Chromehounds and I'm excited to see it here. Having better intel than the enemy can often lead to a win.

I like your sig quote and I like this idea! I think you have a good idea of how they probably are going to put stuff in. I can agree it will probably be the sharing of intel to the rest of the group, maybe more access to the battle map, the ability to draw on it say, but with a pen15 reducing algorithm. Ohh, how I want to know more... Game of the year MWO Here it comes!

[Orzorn]

I feel you. I have a lot of "commanding" experience with towing pubs to victory in League of Legends and Dota. You'd be surprised how willing people are to listen to the first guy to starts passing out suggestions/orders, so long as you do it in the right way. When working with pubs, its best to take a softer approach that favors encouragement and reward over discouragement. If you tell a pub "Come to bot lane and we can gank this guy." and he does and you get the kill on the enemy, then encourage the guy. "Great job man, that helps us a lot." It will encourage them to continue to listen to your orders/suggestions and also keep team morale up.

Bad commanders (or just jerks) tend to yell at their team mates and also aren't very good at making decisions at all. They might call for a gank on a lane that is pushed way too far (for those of you who don't play Dota or League, a lane has defensive towers in it. Get too close to the tower, they attack and it hurts badly. Calling for a "gank" means you want a player dead. So if you're fighting too close to an enemy tower, there is usually little chance of getting a kill on the enemy in the early game), and make other stupid calls like that. But no, when you show up to do what they asked and inevitably fail, they will blame you instead of realizing they were being stupid.

Commanding isn't just having the tactical knowledge to make the right calls, its also making the calls in such a way that you don't **** off the random public players you get. If you command correctly for the first part of the game, you can be more aggressive with it later, because they know that you know what you're doing, as opposed to you getting into a game and in the very first minute start handing out orders like you own the place. People won't respond kindly to that, especially if your demands are unreasonable or just outright stupid as hell.

In addition, part of being a good leader is sometimes not leading at all. If you see that your team is doing everything they need to do, then there is no reason to start barking at them. Only demand things when no one seems that they were going to do it anyways.

Lastly, being a good commander also means dealing with insubordinates who are being totally unreasonable. If some guy just opens up and starts ragging on you, or another player, for whatever reason, for the love of Kerensky, do NOT argue with them. Tell all the other players to use whatever built in function they've got to ignore them (mute command, squelch, whatever). If you start fighting, the entire team will start fighting, and then the team will be distracted, lose morale, and you WILL lose the game. I've seen this happen all too many times. A single troll can ruin the entire game. Its also not just about keeping your team from getting riled up, its also to stop the troll from getitng riled up. We can deal with a guy who yells and doesn't listen to what we need him to do, but the one thing we CAN NOT deal with is a person who starts dying intentionally or using items/abilities to troll people (like buying a force staff, an item that pushes a unit a set distance in the direction they are facing. Trolls will use it to try to get their team mates killed by pushing them right into the enemy team). If you ignore the troll early, they usually don't try anything else, and you get to keep your peace of mind.

@Aegis, yes, I would enjoy seeing that very much. I was planning to be a bit more formal with The Remant when MWO comes out.

[Nick Makiaveli]

I think we are seeing griping about commanders being in charge of XP etc. More than bashing the role. Sure there will be idiots calling in airstrikes on locations the enemy left 5 minutes ago but such is life.

Also I fail to see how my previous experience as a "leader" in the business world will have any bearing on this game. I think that unless someone can bring verifiable credentials from another game the rep will depend on what happens in MWO.

Which for me will mean once I have mastered every other tree I will fool with the Commander role.

[Harrow]

Nick Makiaveli, on 02 February 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Also I fail to see how my previous experience as a "leader" in the business world will have any bearing on this game. I think that unless someone can bring verifiable credentials from another game the rep will depend on what happens in MWO.

This is the absolute truth. Anything less than leadership in another MMO or online FPS is fairly irrelevant. So people who've played in the online leagues as leaders should have an easy transition here as a potential lance or company leader but so will leaders from raiding guilds in MMO's or squads from online shooters. Basically anyone who has flourished in the role of being a leader in a team based online gaming environment.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

This has been one of the more heartening and informative threads I have read on this Forum. To be honest I think that nearly all of the comments have been made about non merc corps games. My worry is that a number of people both here and elsewhere are assuming that we will have some form or "organisation" within Factions/Houses.
I may be wrong, but everything that I have read so far has lead me to believe that there is no organisation within a House. You may "belong" to that House, but there is no formal grouping, or at the moment, ability to form, "units" within the House. If this is the case then Faction members are not much better off, as far as organisation goes, than Lone Wolves.
I understand that there are supposed to be other benefits. But to e honest it is all fluff when compared to the reality of forming teams for the important bit. Fighting in matches.