558 replies to this topic

[Shai tan]

Ya know, I have legged, and been legged. Who here hasn`t? What I hated was the blatant cries of the peeps who got bagged from others who were amazing at exploiting. What we need is for the devs to look at anything that can be exploited in the way of the issues that we faced back in the day.... and to build in a skillful way to combat such exploits.

1 undulating terrain levels. These problems magnify on flatter terrains. In a terrain that undulates, it would be hard to keep aim on a Mech moving at a good speed at good distances. So leg away, it`ll just take the shooter more skill, and the shoot ee has a better tactic for evading and staying longer in the fight.

Long story short, nothing needs to be nerfed. The exploit tactics are still viable. all we need is the Dev Team to look hard at these issues and build in by terrain design or whathaveyou, skillful ways for the Pilots to deal with these issues.

This way, it becomes more skillful alround, and doesn`t feel cheap from either Camps pov. Get me????

[Raeven]

3Xtr3m3, on 11 March 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Here is the thing.
And I wish EVERYONE would read this and reply to this topic accordingly.
Because in this game it is going to be an issue, and I think we should get it out in the open now.

WHICH FACTIONS SUPPORT LEGGING
WHICH FACTIONS WILL DEMAND YOU DO NOT USE LEGGING
WHICH FACTIONS JUST DON'T CARE

I really want to know before I commit to a Faction.

You should ask which teams will teach you the how/when/why of legging. Sometimes it is appropriate, sometimes it is not.

[Beaker]

Dr.Killinger, on 11 March 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

I would expect nothing less of my light lance! If the beefy mechs spearheading the assault need some enemy fire support taken out, a flanking legging light mech would do wonders.

You sound like a fine light mechwarrior

thanks for the compliment, in MW4 more then MW3 I was a Good Light mech user (No ego, I know I was above average). However that came with experience, and being owned solidly for at least 2 weeks with each chassis as I learned the,

BTW, I notice you're Lyran, you know an Awesome isn't a light mech right?

[Meneiupptus]

Legging will happen, and I will do it as well. Better salvage if you don't mess up the expensive parts.

[KhanRad]

I have no problem with being legged, or doing the legging. However, I would prefer that it be more in line with Battletech in that if your legs are blown off you aren't out of the fight and exploded.

[3Xtr3m3]

Two Jenners approach an Atlas.

One says to the other. "You go for the right leg, I got the left leg. First done with their leg helps with the other leg"

You just know someone gonna cry foul.
But, I think it is a valid tactic, it should make for better salvage, and I would prefer not to be blacklisted for doing it.

[Hayashi]

Rayge, on 02 February 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

I actually prefer the MW4 'magic legs' scenario. It makes shooting the legs a viable tactic, but not an 'lol i win' scenario.

I agree, and it was much less cheap than the MW2Mercs situation in which one your leg is down you're essentially screwed.

==Off topic, sorry==
That said the internal damage transference thing wasn't limited to legs; shooting an unarmored right torso nonstop would blow the enemy 'Mech up even if you never damaged its centre torso or legs. I did this a lot with Chimeras, seeing as their centre torso was much harder to hit.

I'd like for this to in some form be transferred to MWO. As of now it seems the only plans for Mech destruction include cockpit, centre torso, and the legs, but there should be some effect to taking 147 PPC hits in your right torso. =P

==Back on topic==

In real life if you were to come at me in full plate armour with a gap in your knee, I'd shoot you in the knee too. If legging is too easy to do, then all we need to do is:

A. Increase the armour/internal strength of the legs. Not preferred since this screws with canon.
B. Increase the difficulty of hitting the legs. Since we already have converging aimlines, two separate reticles and what not, if moving legs make weapons-fire directed at them less likely to hit due to faulty gimball convergence, it might make it less attractive to aim for the legs. After all, if you miss the centre torso you hit the side torsos, but if you miss the legs...

[Togg Bott]

you know... the first mech game i played (computer) was Crescent Hawks' Inception. so i been around for awhile.

I actually remember when the Anti-legger movement started. it started on the AOL (America online) version of Battle Tech. you could tranfer armor from your legs to MAGICALLY beef up your torso, (Where everyone moved their weapons). and it became ABSURDLY easy for people like me to take a 45 ton Blackjack with 2 ac2's and leg those atlases from a range that their LRM-20's couldnt reach. i never worried abit about the rants.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

With luck they will take the way it was played in Battletech and just immobilze the victime of legging. you could use one arm to prop-yourself up and still use one arm and your torso weapons in the fight, Your just a oversized turret but your not out of the fight.

Hell even in all the lore, the knees and hip joints were ALWAYS the weakest link on most mechs. its how anti-mech infantry (pre-powerarmor) even got any kills; satchel charge to the knee or ankle actuators.

I think it only became a problem when the videogames made legs a death

[SnowDragon]

FOr reference here, a lot of us 'Anti-leggers' in the camp aren't against legging. What we're against is legging equalling death.

[Shai tan]

Maybe a smaller hitbox could be designed so that constant damage to a certain area ONLY for a prolonged period, would result in being legged. It is pretty hard to keep damaging that certain hitbox area for any prolonged period in a firefight. This might make it more of a luck of the draw skill thing then. And peeps knowing/experiencing this won`t attempt to concentrate on legging so much as a tactic. Cause prolonged attempts would leave them open for attack as well?

Allow the legs too cool off faster? There has to be a logical way.... right?

Edited by shai`tan, 18 March 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Dickie Mckraut]

Hmm since I am responcible for the repair costs to my mech, i think replacing my leg/legs sounds much better then having to buy a new fusion reactor

[Mystwolf]

one of the funnest battles I was in in my NBT( MW2Mercs) days involved getting legged. I was being double teamed when I was legged. I was able to prop myself back up and continue fighting.....albeit with almost no mobility (I had directional jumpjets, but could not move much). when the battle was over my mech had no armor and very little internals left but I won.

This would be something I am hopeful for. I hate the one leg gone and you are dead and I even hated the magice leg drag to a lesser degree in MW4. that thing is gone take it out of there IMO.

the other thing I hope does not happen is the 1 shot kill protection. I hated that in MW4 and Battletech 3025 (the old game that was canceled ). in both games it protected the mechs to an unhealthy degree. Again IMO. In battle tech 3025 I save and my first mech upgrade was to a Panther.....love my PPC's. I targeted a Commando who had moved up to the top of the opposite ridge and stopped.....he was in range so I shot him......I hit his head......I couldnt believe my luck Just his head.....but did not kill him. his head turned yellow or red.....so I shot again and hit Just his head again which was red by now and now he moved back down behind the ridge. This should never happen....While headshots should be hard to get and rarely happen....... no mech can withstand 2-3 PPC shots to the head......none and yet the smallest mech out there with the least amount of head armor did......... kinda silly.

[Roh]

lol MWLL CSJ is such a joke. Rules about no legging and no killing aero on the runway.. But completely cool with cheating using unlimited c-bill transfer. I hate that server. Fact that it is the most popular NA server is why I dont play MWLL. Well that and the silly no torso collision.

[karish]

one thing people are forgetting is that how tall is an atlas how tall is a hunchback when the hunchback is looking strait at the atlas where is his AC20 pointed at. The mechs are different sizes so that is one drawback to the anti-leggers and another is to get that perfect shot you have to stop the target has to stop and i dont see that happening. and another issue is with everything moving your sights are going to be moving and bouncing as you move good luck trying to get that perfect shot off just rewatch the videos so far

[TeaL3af]

Late to the party, byt anyway...

The more viable tactics you have to choose between the deeper the game and the more tactical skill is rewarded. Legging should be viable as a tactic, but should not always be the best as it was in MW3. Similarly, the fact that coreing an enemy mech was always the quickest kill in MW4 was also boring.

I'd like to see coring, legging and taking out weapons all be viable tactics. Which you use should really be based on personal preference and an an alysis of you and your opponent's mechs.

[Trede]

So...14 pages in I know I'm late to the party, but it doesn't appear that anyone read the dev blog. Weapon convergence will not be instantaneous and will be based upon distance to reticle. Guess what? Legs are going to be hard to hit. Period. Take it from a marksman: Aim big, miss small. Aim small, miss big. (Translation: Aim center of mass, if you miss by a bit, oh well, you hit a leg/arm/head. Aim for the head and miss? You hit a tree.)

Edited by Trede, 18 March 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[RaGe666]

Lord Trogus, this one merc that is not scared.. bring ur groupkill, ya going to need a group...

[Endo Steel]

I like the ability to leg people simply because it divides players into like-minded camps. If you think it's bad, join a non-legging house and build a reputation. If you like it, join Liao.

In another post people were scratching their heads about how the Clan honor code could translate to MWO, well there you go! Negative points for hitting the legs if you're playing a Clanner/in a Clan mech.

One thing I do think is important is that a shot to the legs would result in very different knock than a shot to the chest. It might damage the mech's mobility and in the worst case cause it to pitch forward, but normally a gauss slug hitting the ankle won't mess up your aim nearly as badly as a slug to the shoulder. By having weapons cause more knock the higher they impact on the target, you develop coring as a defensive, dueling strategy while legging is more useful in surprise attacks when the enemy isn't prepared to return fire.

There's also something to be said for hill warfare, where the legs are half-concealed behind ridges and undergrowth most of the time and thus cannot be targeted effectively.

Edited by Endo Steel, 21 March 2012 - 10:14 PM.

[Belisarius1]

Mystwolf, on 18 March 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

the other thing I hope does not happen is the 1 shot kill protection. I hated that in MW4 and Battletech 3025 (the old game that was canceled ). in both games it protected the mechs to an unhealthy degree. Again IMO. In battle tech 3025 I save and my first mech upgrade was to a Panther.....love my PPC's. I targeted a Commando who had moved up to the top of the opposite ridge and stopped.....he was in range so I shot him......I hit his head......I couldnt believe my luck Just his head.....but did not kill him. his head turned yellow or red.....so I shot again and hit Just his head again which was red by now and now he moved back down behind the ridge. This should never happen....While headshots should be hard to get and rarely happen....... no mech can withstand 2-3 PPC shots to the head......none and yet the smallest mech out there with the least amount of head armor did......... kinda silly.

This was nothing short of hilarious in MW4. Nobody used head armour because the head was impossible to hit consistently, and you had OSK-protection for the one game in ten where someone took a (un)lucky alpha there.

Nothing was more rage-inducing than coring an enemy and then having your 70 point follow-up get caught by 0.1 tons of head armour + OSK shield. Bonus points if it was, yes, a commando.

Edited by Belisarius†, 21 March 2012 - 10:55 PM.