558 replies to this topic

[Randal Waide]

Lord Trogus, on 09 March 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

I was looking through some of the material the devs had mentioned concerning heat sinks, and how placing them in the legs would dissipate heat in water. With this in mind, would that not give warriors even more incentive to leg and incapacitate mechs from the waist down? Personally, I found it annoying to be outright winning an engagement against an enemy with lesser skill, only to be legged and systematically crumpled while having all torsos still green. One may argue that it is a perfectly viable tactic (which it is, I just hate when it is abused like such), but now heat dissipation is also in the crosshairs. Even if a pilot is aware of the legging threat and moves heat sinks accordingly, it will not exempt him from walking around like a gimp for half the match after taking an Arrow IV to the knee.

My fear is that this may give one more reason for pilots to further exploit one of the most exploited tactics in Mechwarrior history. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems there is no reason not to leg when looking at the incentive. Maybe balancing will allow one to place even more armor on the legs, or another alternative will be found, but I could see this being a glaring weakness to any 'mech not fast enough to keep those actuators moving. Sorry if this has already been touched up on, this information came out a while ago and I was unable to find a thread specifically discussing this.

Not all mechs have heat sinks in their legs. Only those with heat sinks in their legs drop heat more efficiently when in water. The best defense from the "leggers" is to keep moving. Shift your movement patterns. And kill the other guy first.

[Polymorphyne]

Also, the leg heat sinks thing is optional. You dont have to put them there.

[Bouncin]

Namwons, on 09 March 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

If I'm a light vs a heavy, I'm gonna leg you to escape or immobilize you for my mates. If I'm in a heavy an see a light, I'm gonna leg you to keep you from running away. If its more even, I'm going for the weapons or reactor.

@Hana. Legs have the least armor (well head does actually), followed by arms, torsos, then center.

Actually, arms have the least (not including the head), with legs and side torso able to hold the same amount, and CT the greatest. That said, the legs did not have to distribute to the rear, whereas the torsos did, thus usually ensuring that the legs were the best armored location overall. Of course, that is TT and MW 2-3 rules. I forget how MW4 did it, as I have blocked out that particular time in my life

Edited by Timothy MacBrian, 10 March 2012 - 07:39 AM.

[WV Betrayer]

Its like time travel. New century, same issues.

Repeatedly being legged? Its you.. Not them.

Unless they makes shooting easier.. And if they do... Go for the head... And most of us will quit anyhow because we didnt wait around for easy.

[Pariah Devalis]

Never understood the leg whiners. I am going to put you down the fastest way possible or else I will incur unnecessary damage to my own machine. If you so decide not to put any armor on the legs, then I AM going to take your feet out from under you, and you deserve it. If you armor your legs, I am going to attempt to core your machine since that is the fastest way to your end, short of lucky hits to the cockpit. If I come across a mech with damaged legs but pristine torso armor, I will attack the legs. If I see a mech with a damaged torso segment and decent amounts of leg protection, I will be pouring all my fire into that damaged torso segment to gut your machine.

It is as simple as that.

[Tryg]

One of the primary reasons legging became popular was to disable pilots without destroying them for matches in which respawns were allowed. You didn't want the pilot respawning fresh, so you left him disabled. In game modes of MWO where respawning isn't an option, the tactic of legging becomes more hindrance then benefit, so while it will still be around, in one-off game modes I don't think you'll see it quite so abundantly as in respawn modes.

Further, you get disabled and locked in place, so long as you still have weapons you can still throw a few punches out there and at the very least, act as a stationary watch-tower to report enemy movements. Preferable to staring at a scoreboard waiting for the round to end.

[Demi-Precentor Konev]

Lord Trogus, on 09 March 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Personally, I found it annoying to be outright winning an engagement against an enemy with lesser skill, only to be legged and systematically crumpled while having all torsos still green.

I'm not sure "lesser skill" is the term I would be using.

[CobaltRaptor]

I almost always max out leg armor, infact armor in general is always near its highest point in mw4. I may have less weapons than you do, but my extra armor will keep me safe while i core your torso with my slightly reduced armament.

[Wyzak]

I remember in MW4 there was always .3 ton that you couldn't allocate without bumping up another ton of armor. Rather than waste a ton of weapn weight, I just ticked three limbs down 1 (Usually LA/RA and torso - some mechs had no hard points on a torso at all so you could take all the armor off it)

[Lycan]

Again with this? And again with people not understanding the underlying problem. (I think).

It's not that "legging" is bad. The "bad" part of legging comes from, if I understand correctly, MW4 were the destruction of your leg resulted in the destruction of your mech.

THAT's, if I'm correct, where the "legging is bad" thing is coming from. If MW:O has it were you get legged and you're just left sitting there, no big. Yes it will suck but it will also, hopefully, make you a little better at piloting your mech. If, and I doubt this will be an issue since I don't think PGI would do this to us, you lose your mech when you lose your leg, then yeah something will need to be done about "legging" as it is a cheap shot* and cheap way* to remove a mech from the field.

*=Personal Opinion

[Alaric Hasek]

Luckily, the uber MW4 players will have to start all over again, so I don't think we'll have too much to worry about except their complaining.

[Sassori]

Eh, if you let yourself get legged by being unsupported and standing around in the open then the fault is entirely yours.

Personally I'm more annoyed at 4 medium lasers being the equivalent to an AC 20 due to alpha strike where all 4 can hit the same location every time.

[Burned_Follower]

I know that by the time i found this thread everybody has already given their opinion so i'm gonna give mine:

I am a legger. I won't deny it. The fact that i can shoot two mechs at once in MWO means that i'm also gonna leg two mechs at once. I think it's a very viable tactic and personally i think it's impossible to abuse a tactic. It just one of those online gaming strategies that works so well that when practiced properly other people are gonna call you cheaters, blah blah blah.

Now, if i was playing MW3 i would not leg because due to the game mechanics it would be dishonerable and while playing MW3 i would share the opinion of the author to this thread to the "T".

But if i'm playing MW4 Veng or Mercs or MWLL i'm gonna LEG YOU whenever i feel it is neccessary. Sometimes i'll just leg people for the heck of it. And if you whine and call me a cheater, i'm gonna leg you even more.

BUT....if i'm playing on a server that has rules against legging like on some servers in MW4 Mercs MWLL, i WILL respect those rules not just out of fear for getting booted and/or banned, but because it's the right thing to do. Same thing goes for base raping. I'll violate that base Michael Jackson style but at the same time i won't wine if it happens to me. I remember one time where i logged into a MWLL server and i found myself getting base raped. I almost got turtle aids by the time i was able to fight off the two inflitrators single handedly and that was the most fun i had in MWLL for a while.

But if i'm in an online combat situation where i can leg without fear of getting booted or dishonering a server admin's rules, I'M GONNA LEG.

...And another thing: If you guys ever find me on a Mech multiplayer server, ya'all can leg me whenever you want and i promise you that i won't whine or belly ache. I get legged a lot the few times i play MWLL and it's as annoying to me as getting stripped or ambushed by battlearmor but i don't whine cuz IT'S PART OF THE GAME.

Just my MO. No disrespect intended to those out there that disagree with me. I'm just sharing my additude that i've had on this subject for the last decade and i'm not changing.

Edited by XxDRxDEATHxX, 10 March 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[Conn Man]

Two things that will never change in a Mechwarrior game. People who leg, and people who complain about it. The irony is that they are frequently the same people.

FWIW, in the current version of Battletech: Firestorm (VWE pods) if you want to kill a 'mech by legging you need to get both legs.

[Midgie]

How can you complain about a game mechanic that's been in the game since it began (I think you could leg in MW1, but it's been a LONG time since I played it)? If you're worried about getting legged, add armor to those appendages, or stand behind a hill.

[UncleKulikov]

Simple answer: if you have a heat heavy mech, with fat easy to hit legs, don't put your heat sinks in the legs.

If you are worried about legging, there has been no information on the viability of that tactic, so calm down.

As for the heat sink specific junk, see first line.

[Lycan]

Midgie, on 10 March 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

How can you complain about a game mechanic that's been in the game since it began (I think you could leg in MW1, but it's been a LONG time since I played it)? If you're worried about getting legged, add armor to those appendages, or stand behind a hill.

Probably because it was flawed mechanic to begin with and didn't follow the spirit of the game that the Video games are based on.

Losing a leg = Immobile or reduced movement (till you lose the other one), no issue with it what-so-ever.

Losing a leg = Total destruction of mech and results in possible lose of match/world. Major issue and shouldn't be allowed as it doesn't follow canon.

[Beaker]

I'll expand my previous comments.

1 :: I'll leg you if you've stripped armor. If you've taken armor off your legs to fit in another heatsink, or an extra ton of ammo you're doing yourself no favours. However I'll not pick legs as primary target, that in MW4 for example would have been the head, or the rear torso. (I'm an IS Merc, not a Clanner, so there is no such thing as dishonor). In MW4 a "killer" config like a Madcat laoded out with ERLL, a Hillhumping Novacat, or a poptarting Black Knight would invariably strip off armor to make space for sinks. At that point I'd normally do a test shot when I saw one, if my 9 Small Lasers dropped your leg armor through the floor I'd go back for more. You've CREATED a weakness in your mech, it would be insane for me to not to exploit it.

2 :: Leg me, go for it. As stated, I run lights most of the time, always have. I've less armor on my entire mech than some assaults can carry on each leg. If you're going to whine about me legging, remember this before you start. If your honor is so great then take the Atlas/Madcat/Daishi out with as much armor as my Wolfhound, and we'll discuss matters. Until then shush, you're just highlighting the fact you have a poor setup.

3 :: I'm carrying less total firepower in an Alpha-Strike than you have in each of your guns. No, I am actually serious for the most part. I've pecked people to death with The Angry Pencil a number of times because they realised my Alpha was pitiful, what it did do however was build up damage over time.

4 :: Light users :: Speed > Armor > ECM > Weapons. Remember this, and remember to ALWAYS test the legs of the gunbag who is hillhumping or poptarting.

Lycan, on 10 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Losing a leg = Immobile or reduced movement (till you lose the other one), no issue with it what-so-ever.

this is how MW4 worked!

[Vernius Ix]

I am going to leg everything I see. I just works better that way!

[Zarkan]

Eh, you had to take both legs out in Mw4 that took longer than simply coreing a 'mech normally so you didn't see it much in MW3 however a leg destroyed was a dead 'mech and from what I recall MW3 multiplayer was full to the brim with fast back heavies boating medium lasers and blasting eachothers legs off.