558 replies to this topic

[Barranoid]

25 pages about legging. Read the first few and really...legging should be there and it should work just like in MW2. I don't see the point of a Mechwarrior game that removes valueable tactical components (like shooting another mechs legs off).

The whole combat should be about finding your opponents weakness, be it the exposed cockpit of a Catapult or the rear torso of that Atlas. Same goes for the legs. If combat would be reduced to shooting away the armor of the enemy, smaller Mechs just wouldn't make much sense. Instead going for weak spots like the legs allows balanced tactics.

[Serpent 6]

If it's part of the Mech, it's shootable. If that is the only part of your Mech exposed, I will shoot it. Legging is a viable tactic.
Want to stop a tank, pop a track. But it can still shoot back. same with a Mech. Unless the pilot suxors and is screaming on comms and typing away on chat about the fact he got legged. lol

[LancerVI]

Complelely legit tactic. Period. What's all this fair talk? Like Buddah said, "I'm here to kill you" and then pick the salvage off your busted wreck.

You don't want me to shoot your legs????

MOVE!

Check your Six,

Lancer VI

[Zarkus]

I don't think the AT-AT in The Empire Strikes Back should have been taken out with a tow cable!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kelthar, on 22 June 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

For those of you that are not aware, in TT general rules, which a couple exceptions, you couldn't target specific parts of an enemy mech.

Really? We were doing it wrong with called shots then O.o

[Fastred]

BFalcon, on 22 June 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'm going to toss out two phrases here for those complaining to think about.

The EVE Online motto: "Adapt or die"

and the Battletech motto: "No guts, no galaxy!"

Just because you don't like the idea, this isn't MW3/4 - both legs will need to be hit for the kill and I've already shown how most mechs have as much armour in their legs as their torso, so legging isn't going to be that much of a problem.

If you want an intact mech, headshot it - like my Griffin did to a Battlemaster in an early game I played... saves damaging anything you know... expensive...

Aye but depending on the period it can be tough replacing the cockpit assembly, sensors and control systems.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Maffa, on 22 June 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

if they balance the game so that by shooting the right mid torso will cripple a mech, be sure i will make it my primary target as often as i can. What use is tying my right arm behind my back if rules say i can use them both?

Yeah hows that gonna work? It was straight stupid in MW4 when you blow off the side torso but the arms continue to function like nothing's wrong

[Aurora2021]

mwhighlander, on 02 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

I feel as if the time has come to have (another?) a level headed, non-previous game grudge biased discussion on legging. Everyone's favorite topic. So lets start laying out some facts before I give my opinion on how legging should be handled. I personally am unfamiliar with how it works in MechWarrior (1) and MechWarrior: Living Legends but here are how it was handled elsewhere.

MechWarrior 2 Mercs : When a gyro is damaged or suffer from internal damage or internal leg damage, your 'mech will slow down significantly. Upon destruction of the leg, dismemberment would ensue and the 'mech fell over. (I believe in just MechWarrior 2 you would simply become immobile) After, you still had full weapon and JJ' functionality, however your only means of mobility were through fancy JJ work. Destroying the only remaining leg (quads did not exist) would result in the destruction of the 'mech. Also, JJ'ing far into the air and harsh impacts heavily damaged both legs internal structure.

MechWarrior 3 : Ah yes, possibly where the phrase "You god**** legging....." really took hold within the community -- and for good reason! While you still had full customization of armor in the 'mech lab to make your legs pretty reinforced with armor, the fact they were so exposed and an easy target didn't help. Unfortunately, destroying a single leg in this game resulted in your entire 'mech going down as well. Horrible decision making on the dev's part. A step back from MechWarrior 2, not forwards.

MechWarrior 4 : For Vengeance, Black Knight and Mercenaries the same rule applied. Destroying one leg's internal structure resulted in your 'mech limping at 30% speed. Afterwards, continued damage to that leg would transfer (magically!) to the other leg's internal structure bypassing armor. Once your second leg's internals have been destroyed (internals "hit point" value varied from 'mech to 'mech), then game over. For better or worse. MechWarrior4 Mercs has been given "One hit kill protection" on RT, Legs, Head and CT. This helps prevent "alpha boats" from getting insta-kills on smaller 'mechs. Unlike MechWarrior 2 or 3, the Mechlab is quite restricting in terms of what you can do armor wise, giving a more generic overlay of options. No matter what 'mech you have, you cannot put any more additional armor on any location then a predetermined set amount.

MechAssault : Oh noes! I ran out of green health bars! LOL! //sarcasm. Fun game, horrible iteration of the Battletech universe. Getting shot in the leg made no difference other than slightly less damage as opposed to getting shot in the torsos. Ever kill a 'mech by shooting it in the finger before?

MechWarrior: Living Legends : Unfortunately, I have not been able to play this title, so my knowledge is limited. From what I do know is "legging" is still generally frowned upon. Also, there is no 'mechlab from my knowledge so which ever config you select, you cannot allocate or distribute additional armor. What you see is what you get. If someone else could help explain that would be awesome.


So, what would you like to see or be used in MW:O? Personally, I would want nothing less than MechWarrior 2 mercs, where internal damage has several consequesnces such as damage to a gyro/leg actuators result in loss of mobility, but destroying a leg does not neccesarily destroy the entire 'mech. If the developers do things 'right' legging will be a thing of a past. Not so much that people won't aim low, but it won't result in a 'cheap' kill and 'cause people to rage constantly. As a side note, should we get the "good" electronics such as MASC and directional JJ's, I'd like to see a scenario where it is possible to blow out your leg actuators by stressing them out. Likewise with high impact landings. I suppose the biggest factors to how people view legging will be in the hands of the devs and the freedom people are given in the 'mechlab. But if you consciously skimp on the armor regardless of location, expect other players to follow the path of least resistance and attack that location with full force. Its common sense.

Also, I would love to know how it is currently handled in the game tests (if they are actually happening). I guess time will tell how well leg damage is implemented.

*as a side note, I do love legging people who put zero armor on their legs in MW4, or complain about it constantly*

I can help with MWLL (MechWarrior Living Legends). In MWLL, legging is not one of those things where you lose the leg and you're out of the fight. How it works is actually quite nice if not entirely plausible, if anything it's more like a combination of Mechwarrior 2 and 3. When your Mech' gets legged, you go down and start rag-dolling around depending on the terrain. During all this while, you are still capable of rotating your torso and firing whatever weapons you have, though you will phase through the ground at times and the rotation is so free that it's as if you were still on both feet. On the flip side, legging does not happen that often in MWLL, from my experience that is. It's also rather cool to leg a Mech' as Battle Armour and crawl over it to shoot up the cockpit.

Edited by Aurora2021, 22 June 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Fastred]

514yer, on 22 June 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Yeah hows that gonna work? It was straight stupid in MW4 when you blow off the side torso but the arms continue to function like nothing's wrong

Fortunately since this is not MW4, we can hope the devs made it so damage bleeds over once it exceeds the structure in a location and loosing the right torso blows the right arm off... So I can club people with it...*sigh* I miss beating mechs about the head and shoulders with their own arms....

[Valatar]

I'll be more than happy for my opponent to be shooting at my legs while I'm aiming for their cockpit. My only opinion is that a mech with one leg should still be able to fight. Just because the thing tips over and is laying on its side is no reason that it can't keep shooting.

[Red Sun]

Maybe it's because of my limited multiplayer experience, but has anybody realized that MW is a simulation game? It's WAR. If I can save my skin by shooting your legs out from under you, you bet I'm gonna do it. Clanners might not, seeing it as dishonorable. But I'm a freeborn

Having the ability to continue fighting after losing a leg (MW2) is a nice idea, but slightly more complicated to implement realistically in a game - you have to calculate the difference between levels of disability (impaired or no movement, can still fight) and a leg shot clean off (mech falls over). Though, I think we can all agree, it'd be pretty awesome if MWO allowed you to pull off a maneuver like Kai Allard-Liao propped up on 2 stumps and an arm and still kicking %^$.

:edit:
My first round through MW1 on PC I ran out of cbills and all I had was a locust and I needed a job. So I took a contract to attack a base. Got pitted against a Battlemaster so I (well, accidentally) lodged myself between his legs where he couldn't get me and I shot his legs off with machine guns and lasers. HOORAH!

Edited by Red Sun, 22 June 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Rikichi]

Im in aggreance with various people here in that legging should still exist. This IS war, some of you can preach about honor, about valiantly defending your homelands, your lives, but it all comes down to who is willing to do what needs to be done. As many have said before me, if shooting your leg will destroy you faster? I will take that chance when it presents itself. does this mean I will go for just your leg every..single..time?.. No, it does not.

Does this mean if I see an opportunity to take you out quickly I will choose to say "oh, its bad form, I tip my hat to you good sir and shall shoot thy armored side instead!" then you need to learn War. All that matters in war is you live, your team lives, and they die. for objectives 1 and 2 to be completed, objective 3 must be completed as safely, and quickly as possible, ergo, I see there to be nothing wrong with taking the "Fast" way to kill someone.

THAT BEING SAID....

I dont feel legs should be any less armored than the torso given how important they are to a bipedal 100 ton machine of death.
Nor do I personally feel that legging = INSTANT DEAD LAWL!
The mech s still intact, its still working, its just lost the ability to walk. you should be able to roll, you should be able to crawl if the mech has the appropriate arms and movable limbs. in the VERY least should be able to prop yourself up and essentially become a turret with a rough 75* or so attack area.

In closing?

When your life is on the line, when the lives of those you care for are dependant on you and your actions, Will you give your enemy time? will you intentionally force yourself to be concerned about honor? Will you be ready to sacrifice the lives of your self and friends, for the "Honor", or perhaps innability, in not being able to quickly deal with an enemy? If you have an opening, take it.

[Januph]

Ahhh legging, my old friend. I remember playin mech2 with a friend back in like 94. we had a "deathmatch" think it was a Puma batlle, I took out his leg he took mine, then i took out his ppc and finished him off beacuse he had no more weapons that would reach me. We laughed about that one for a couple of years. I'll have to mention it to him again. LOL.

[Avtama]

Anyone else remember the cartoon? There was a clan Star Colonel who deliberately used to blow the legs off the IS mechs because they were so weak and easily 'legged'. He didn't see it as dishonourable, as he didn't see the opponents he was facing as having any honour.

Also, looking at the videos, shooting the legs seems to be tricky! I will aim for the legs if it seems to be the best option at the time. But, this would seem unlikely.

[Jukebox1986]

I´d prefer taking out the Enemy´s main Weapon, but sometimes it´s to well Armoured. Than the Leg´s just as fine.

[LancerVI]

What is all this talk about dishonorable? If legging is "dishonorable", so is sniping, artillery, bombing....etc.

"Dishonorable is banging your buddies wife when he deploys. Shooting off the leg of the ******* shooting at you IS combat."
~Lancer VI~
US Army Infantry

..as an infantryman, I'm aiming the M136 AT4 at your tracks!! (What? No Jav? SH#*&!!!)

[Ducks Guts]

Think about it, in real wars, troops would slap sticky bombs to tank treads to immobilize them right? Same thing. Some people think shaving off a leg is unfair. Imagine how a troop felt getting close enough to a tank in WWII to touch it with a bomb. I'm guessing it was hell. The door swings both ways on this one. All is fair in love and WAR.

Edited by Ducks Guts, 22 June 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Adrian Carino]

A weak point is a weak point. Plain and simple. Keep your honor, I'd rather win.

[Armored Yokai]

well i only leg if you run from me so you can repair or get away
and besides legging is not dishonorable
remember that old battletech video series nicholai malthus legged a centurion
so no problem with it

[Argon3]

This is going to be a skill type game
Learn to ruin your enemy quickly
Leg core
If I can see it
I am going to shoot it
If I am in an assualt and I can snap shoot a light
I pull the trigger
When I get good enough
I will take out you legs first
Just like others will
Stay behind cover or move FAST and evasive to not be legged