74 replies to this topic

[CobraFive]

I know it wasn't mechwarrior online, and I know it wasn't actual gameplay (just in-engine animation on the unreal engine) but the old trailer for Mechwarrior 5 showed the mech walking in full 360 degree freedom. It made the fight look a lot better, a lot more fluid and mobile- he stopped, backed up, walked behind the building, then popped forward diagonally out of cover while walking diagonally forward and backward, sideways, all while keeping his guns facing the atlas.

A lot is capable with a rotating torso, and I do like the feeling of being in control of a huge, awkward machine, but I think if we add a few degrees of movement it would really increase the potential of mech battles.

In an ideal situation I'd like to see some kind of control system where, once activated, you can control your mech in 360 freedom, but only at a very slow speed (For example when you hit the button, now WASD or your joystick or whatever controls the legs like a FPS, with sidstep/forward/reverse, with little time needed for acceleration/deceleration). Something specifically for close combat, and to show that these are humanoid machines and not vehicles. I don't think we'll be seeing something so in-depth though.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I agree with the above posters. Sidestepping should be possible, even if only when the mech is at a standstill or moving very slowly. I don't think it should be possible at any great speed. Actual speed should be dependant on mech weight ie smaller mechs are more agile.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Pht, on 06 February 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

'Mechs are capable of sidestepping; but green pilots have a hard time doing it. The foot pedal controls in a 'Mech have some extended movement modes that they are capable of.

Some people may have a stroke to see someone post this, but 'Mechs can even skip ... in the hands of a supremely capable pilot. Which is not the same as saying they're gundam style gymnast mechs.

This reminds me a whole lot of QWOP
http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html

[DaZur]

TheRulesLawyer, on 07 February 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

This reminds me a whole lot of QWOP
http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html

Excuse me sir... Where do I send the bill to have my keyboard replaced as a result of involuntary spitting of ones beverage upon said keyboard as a result of your post referencing QWOP?

The mere visage of an Atlas stumbling around is epic!

[GhostRider 02D]

new bubba to the whole Mech warrior world... but based on what Im reading and all the art I've been viewing we should have side stepping capability...
...and since this is a new game "MWO" it shouldn't be an issue.

just my two bits (or is it c-bills)

[Mechteric]

Ranger207, on 07 February 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Second, in the 2009 trailer, that Warhammer did sidestep, implying that the devs are/have been thinking about this.

Watch the trailer again, it never sidesteps, it just very smoothly turns its legs while keeping the torso pointed towards the atlas. But it doesn't prove much anyway because it was scripted, not actually piloted by a real person.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 07 February 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

If they allow it, the Mechs legs should not be able to cross over in front or behind eaach other as part of a side-step. Right leg out, left leg follows, ankles meet. Mech steps to the right. Repeat to move farther.

Reverse the process to return to point of origin or move to the Left. No side skipping allowed. Please Please Please Please

Edited by MaddMaxx, 07 February 2012 - 10:08 AM.

[DaZur]

MaddMaxx, on 07 February 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

If they allow it, the Mechs legs should not be able to cross over in front or behind eaach other as part of a side-step. Right leg out, left leg follows, ankles meet. Mech steps to the right. Repeat to move farther.

Reverse the process to return to point of origin or move to the Left. No side skipping allowed. Please Please Please Please

Exactly as I envision it...

I think a better description would be a "side-shuffle" rather than a side-step.

I mean really... we are talking 35 to 100 ton Mechs. Fred Astaire they are not...

Edited by DaZur, 07 February 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[Ranek Blackstone]

Small side shuffles are fine IMO. Just as long as they don't clear too much space too quickly. A mech's main method of lateral movement in combat should be the torso twist, but a little side shuffle to get into/out of cover isn't too game breaking.

[Liam]

people what do you mean by shuffle? slide side step?
One step to the side (or other side) is okay in my opinion. I don't want see any slides in MW game (as in Steel battalion), because all Mechs in Mw have no wheels etc. they will tilt over.

It would be fun to see people crushing the mech by trying to side step at full speed.
At low speed (1/3 of max) there will be probably a very small heat spike to engine due to higher myomer stress.

Edited by Liam, 07 February 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[Pht]

Ranger207, on 07 February 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

First, like Capper said, how would you actually do it? I don't like the idea of a switch. If you lag and the game misses you pressing the button, bad things can happen. Second, in the 2009 trailer, that Warhammer did sidestep, implying that the devs are/have been thinking about this.

Press shift on your joystick and push the stick left or right and control speed with the throttle;. Substitute mouse axies and keyboard stroke for those weirdos who like to use one instead of a joystick

[Insidious Johnson]

SilentObserver, on 06 February 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

You could perform the manuver faster with a 90 degree torso twist and forward/reversing.

Mechs should definitely be able to turn in place if you zero the throttle. Don't know how i feel about lateral movement. That was usually reserved for quads.

Textbook Urban Thor ambush tactics from many a player on the MS zone. The mech could already deliver on that range of motion and was often employed well to do so.

[Outlaw2]

Honestly Im trying to evision using this in game and Im simply not seeing it as useful as you may think.

You are assuming that you'll use the side step when your mech's torso is aligned with its feet, which in a middle of a fire fight is more often not the case. If you side step while misaligned, you'll sidestep into a direction thats not exactly useful...or at least not for what it was intended for. That means before using it, you'll need to twist the torso, align it to the feet and then do the sidestep. At this point you might as well just twist 90 degree and acel/decel which is second nature to do after awhile.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 07 February 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[VYCanis]

it's useful if you are popping out to the side of vertical cover. Waiting for your mech to turn and twist 90 degrees, accelerate, decelerate, reverse, accelerate, decelerate just to achieve the mech equivalent of leaning around a corner once, simply takes too long to the point where you may as well be out in the open.

conversely

sidestep left, sidestep right

bingo bango, no muss no fuss, and your mech actually ends up driven like a bipedal vehicle rather than a tank.
Though of course if you want to torso twist 90 degrees and accelerate, decelerate, reverse, accelerate, decelerate, there's nothing stopping you.

Edited by VYCanis, 07 February 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[DaZur]

=Outlaw=, on 07 February 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Honestly Im trying to evision using this in game and Im simply not seeing it as useful as you may think.

You are assuming that you'll use the side step when your mech's torso is aligned with its feet, which in a middle of a fire fight is more often not the case. If you side step while misaligned, you'll sidestep into a direction thats not exactly useful...or at least not for what it was intended for. That means before using it, you'll need to twist the torso, align it to the feet and then do the sidestep. At this point you might as well just twist 90 degree and acel/decel which is second nature to do after awhile.

Agreeably this maneuver is not particularly useful in the open field... In urban or other close-confines type environments it would be most useful.

[Outlaw2]

DaZur, on 07 February 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Agreeably this maneuver is not particularly useful in the open field... In urban or other close-confines type environments it would be most useful.

No, urban and areas with a lot of cover is exactly where i was imaging this. My point still stands

However, having said that. Its something that wouldn't hurt, even if its usefulness is not as great as you think it is. The only downside is the extra dev time needed to add it.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 07 February 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[DaZur]

From my perspective there is no right or wrong answer to this... Clearly it's a personal preference.

That said, in my opinion, (and I've played them all) previous MW games have conditioned us to accept that Mechs only only move in a linear motion. That said, as several posters eluded to, these by-in-large are bipedal war machines, design to, mimic human ambulation. Having said that, it seem silly to arbitrarily limit what amounts to a fundamental aspect of bipedal ambulation...

While this is a fundamentally silly example, let's shift gears, ignoring combat scenarios for a moment and imagine a Mech pilot walking along to a point at which they and their Mech are confronted with a sizable bolder partially blocking their forward progress. Does the Mech pilot?:

a.) Approach the bolder, rotate 45 to 90 degrees, walk forward a few steps, rotate back 45 to 90 degrees and proceed on their merry way.
b.) Approach the boulder, side-step (or slide-step) and keep on trucking?

okay.. only because I know some of you are thinking it...

c.) Jump-jet over the stupid rock thereby neutering my entire argument.
d.) Alpha-striking the boulder into smithereens achieving the same "in-your face!" negation.

A and B are no more right or wrong... One is just logically more practical from a functional stand-point.

In a nutshell... Both have tactical maneuvering advantages and disadvantages. What's the saying... Right tool for the right job?

All I'm saying is it doesn't make sense to limit my toolbox to super glue and a set of pliers when I have a perfectly good wrench and a fresh roll of duct tape!

Edited by DaZur, 07 February 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[SilentObserver]

DaZur, on 07 February 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

From my perspective there is no right or wrong answer to this... Clearly it's a personal preference.

That said, in my opinion, (and I've played them all) previous MW games have conditioned us to accept that Mechs only only move in a linear motion. That said, as several posters eluded to, these by-in-large are bipedal war machines, design to, mimic human ambulation. Having said that, it seem silly to arbitrarily limit what amounts to a fundamental aspect of bipedal ambulation...

While this is a fundamentally silly example, let's shift gears, ignoring combat scenarios for a moment and imagine a Mech pilot walking along to a point at which they and their Mech are confronted with a sizable bolder partially blocking their forward progress. Does the Mech pilot?:

a.) Approach the bolder, rotate 45 to 90 degrees, walk forward a few steps, rotate back 45 to 90 degrees and proceed on their merry way.
b.) Approach the boulder, side-step (or slide-step) and keep on trucking?

okay.. only because I know some of you are thinking it...

c.) Jump-jet over the stupid rock thereby neutering my entire argument.
d.) Alpha-striking the boulder into smithereens achieving the same "in-your face!" negation.

A and B are no more right or wrong... One is just logically more practical from a functional stand-point.

In a nutshell... Both have tactical maneuvering advantages and disadvantages. What's the saying... Right tool for the right job?

All I'm saying is it doesn't make sense to limit my toolbox to super glue and a set of pliers when I have a perfectly good wrench and a fresh roll of duct tape!

Both A and B require you to slow down. I think it would be more like:

E: approach boulder at full run,
Tilt joystick to the left, rotate stick to the right in one fluid motion. (or hit the A key to turn left and move your mouse to the right to rotate torso).
Tilt joystick to the right, rotate stick to the left to recenter torso with legs after i'm past the boulder.
Go screaming past your lancemate who decided to slow down so they could sidestep. (and will now be destroyed by the hunchback you where running from).

[Mims]

STRAFING would be a complete waste of time.

1. Your slower.
2. Moving in a straight line at quarter speed is a bad idea.
3. Trying to strafe, turn, and twisting the torso at the same time would be a pain.
4. A full acceleration then a sudden strafe would cause the mech to tumble in any real life situation, never deccelerating to gain mobility doesn't exist.
5. It would be more viable if you couldn't twist the torso... but you can.
6. Because of design not all mech legs could do this.
7. Try to strafe around me, i will simple walk forward at full speed with my torso twisted 90 degrees while turning a few degrees per step, making me the one circling you, who is traveling straight at quater speed.

In a game with torso twist you dont need strafe. to many cons not enough pros... Soooo, you can jimmy your mech between two buildings, OOOOOOOO who cares.

Edited by Mims, 08 February 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[DaZur]

Mims, on 08 February 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

STRAFING would be a complete waste of time.

1. Your slower.
2. Moving in a straight line at quarter speed is a bad idea.
3. Trying to strafe, turn, and twisting the torso at the same time would be a pain.
4. A full acceleration then a sudden strafe would cause the mech to tumble in any real life situation, never deccelerating to gain mobility doesn't exist.
5. It would be more viable if you couldn't twist the torso... but you can.
6. Because of design not all mech legs could do this.
7. Try to strafe around me, i will simple walk forward at full speed with my torso twisted 90 degrees while turning a few degrees per step, making me the one circling you, who is traveling straight at quater speed.

In a game with torso twist you dont need strafe. to many cons not enough pros... Soooo, you can jimmy your mech between two buildings, OOOOOOOO who cares.

You may want to read back a ways... at no point did I say Mechs should strafe... I'm 110% agreeing that this would be silly by anyone's standards...

for simplicity purposes, I proposed this maneuver could not be carried out at any speed greater than 1/3rd the Mechs tops speed... The movement is nothing more than a lateral step away from center with one foot, and a recovery back to center with the other foot. Hardly a strafe by any stretch of the imagination...

Why do this instead of the previously proposed equivalent of rotating torso 45 to 90 degrees and doing the Mechwarrior Cha-Cha? I postulate that do to acceleration, inertia and deceleration this maneuver is actually less efficient and counter intuitive than the slide-step.

Where would one use it? Simple... Anywhere the pilot has full or partial cover (urban areas... hills, mountains, jungles...) and wishes to at least partially shield their Mech from direct fire and or if they are just being sneaky and peeking around corners in a recon role.

and you.... OOOOOOOOOOh... jimmy'ing between two building would be pretty keen.