18 replies to this topic

[Aidan Kerensky]

Note: I apologize for this possibly being in the wrong forum. It doesn't appear that you can create a poll in the "Clan" forum, however.

Disclaimer: I post these suggestions here openly and give full rights to the owners of the website / PGI to use them or not use them in any way they see fit. I ask for no compensation or recognition.

Yeah, I know it's early but I'm so excited about this that I wanted to put my .02 in now while development is still underway. Personally, I think affecting the clan invasion would be awesome. In an ideal world, I'd say we let our inner fanboys have a bit of free reign and we allow a reboot of the battletech universe (if the IP owners are willing). I'd suggest that when the clans are implemented, we have a month to two month long series of faction battles. Everyone gets to sign up for one clan (17 to choose from because Burrock is still around). These are secondary characters on our same account (i.e. our "clan" character). The 4 winners of the faction wars for that month will be the inner sphere invaders. Yes, I realize that that opens the door for the IS to be invaded by Ice Hellion, Burrock, Fire Mandrill, Cloud Cobra or something. But so what? For purposes of this game, that doesn't really change all that much. Phelan Kell, Lincoln Osis and Ulric Kerensky probably care. But we shouldn't really. This was never going to be a role playing game where we interacted with the characters at that kind of level, right? And the devs still can control our inevitable march towards Tukayyid and a Comstar expansion when that happens. We can still have an epic battle for Luthien, Twycross and Coventry.

This also handles the "mass exodus to the clans" problem. Let EVERYONE who wants to play as the clans play for a month. At the end of that time, rivalries will form and the 13 non-invading clan PLAYERS will be very, very happy to fight tooth and nail as their I-S CHARACTERS against the clans that won. Imagine yourself as a bitter Ghost Bear. Left out of the invasion spot that was rightfully yours. Sure, you could log on as your Ghost Bear character and fight some faction battles against likewise bitter Star Adders back in clan space. OR you could log in as that Free Rasalhague character you have and fight tooth and nail for the rest of the night against the encroaching Coyote forces who stole your rightful invasion spot! And oh, btw, maybe I drop $15 just to go ahead and get that Executioner that I've been proudly piloting for the last month.

If you're looking for a way to get the player base invested in the invasion and invested in the Inner Sphere (and therefore invested in the GAME), I can't think of a better way to do it. And the players ought to feel like they affect things. When the clans fight the I-S, they'll have a huge advantage in technology. So shouldn't the goals for each engagement be altered? Let the I-S mechs have a respawn (allowing a ragtag, slightly disorganized set of "reinforcements" to show up). Maybe the fights are 10 v 12 to start with. Maybe the I-S side only has to defend their base until a timer hits at which point they win (regardless of how few mechs remain standing). There are ways to make it feel like the Clans are constantly "winning" without achieving a game battle "victory" each time. And IF an I-S side is winning against their clan opponent, they should see the results. If the FRR can post victory after victory after victory against the Ghost Bear attackers, they should be treated to a marginally better performance than the FRR in the books. The fight could continue to move on and the tide could continue to push through but maybe the FRR doesn't lose QUITE so many worlds QUITE so fast.

Emotional investment is key to long lasting game play. If this doesn't create it in the player base, I can't imagine what would (I think it also gets TREMENDOUS press in the gaming community too). Lastly, I think it's not particularly ambitious from a coding perspective. Nothing I've proposed is a significant change from existing core game play. Lastly, I can think of few other things that could be done to attract VAST numbers of new players (the lifeblood of an MMO) then to have something as exciting and community driven as this.

None of these should change the really legendary and momentous battles. Luthien, Twycross and especially Tukayyid should absolutely happen. But there's no reason that they should have to occur in exactly the same way. I, for one, have no problem with an Ilkhan from Clan Blood Spirit leading the pack against the Comguards. The Devs should be able to "rig" the system such that the clans still lose, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a loss of 4 to 10 as it was in the books (I think that's right. Wolves got two and jade Falcons and Ghost Bear were awarded ties, IIRC). Tukayyid was a bloody, bloody mess (the Iwajima of Battletech) and it can and should play out similarly again.

[Vhyle]

I know we want to be able to change history, and there will probably be a way to do it within the game, but I think we need to keep the canon timeline, at least for the major events, somewhat intact. Unless Russ wants to change things, since he has the license for Mechwarrior (I'm unsure how much leeway he has) I don't think we'll see any major deviations.

I would love the ability to change the history, but I don't think that's the spirit of the Mechwarrior franchise. They've typically followed the cannon timeline, as far as I can tell. We all pretty much know what's going to happen, especially if you read Sarna.net, but there is quite a lot of room for leeway as I see it.

If Russ and the gang have the leeway to give players the ability to change the timeline, then I'm all for it. That will make the game even more enjoyable for all involved. However, I'll still have great enjoyment if they wish to follow the major events of the timeline, because the history of this universe is pretty fascinating to me. I voted for Yes, keep it cannon.

Edited by Vhyle, 28 August 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[Shortbus]

Probably not the most popular opinion, but i would rather see clan invasion as PvE content. Curious to see how it plays out.

[Aidan Kerensky]

They've already said they'll be playable although I could see them STARTING as NPCs.

My point was that you could keep the history just fine while still allowing a change in invader clans.

[Puschk1n]

Personally I am sick of the Clans. I would be happy if they were not part of MWO at all. That's why I was so excited when the original plan to "reboot" and settle MW5 even before 3025 was announced.

For me, the period around and between the third and fourth succession wars have always been the most interesting parts. Unfortunately, whether ist's the video games, the board game or the books, this period was handled compareably fast. Then we got the Clan invasion and it's Clans all over. But they are bland, Omnimechs are ugly, their advantages are unfair. It's boring in every way.

Even the new concept of MWO got me excited. The concept that each day in real life represents a day ingame and that the game will progress according the time line we know from the books is awesome. However, then I got to know the date we are starting and it's right before the Clan invasion. And I think it's a stupid move. They could have set it one or two years earlier. That would give the game a chance to ripe and the players get used to the factions. THEN the Clan arrive and shake everything up. That would also give the developers time to implement Clan technology.
Maybe the Unseen play a factor in this. Maybe the Unseen are the main reason why the pushed their focus beyond 3025 technology and invented the Clans. If that's true, then I hate Macross and Harmony Gold even more.

[Stormwolf]

Puschk1n, on 28 August 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Personally I am sick of the Clans. I would be happy if they were not part of MWO at all. That's why I was so excited when the original plan to "reboot" and settle MW5 even before 3025 was announced.

For me, the period around and between the third and fourth succession wars have always been the most interesting parts. Unfortunately, whether ist's the video games, the board game or the books, this period was handled compareably fast. Then we got the Clan invasion and it's Clans all over. But they are bland, Omnimechs are ugly, their advantages are unfair. It's boring in every way.

I'm a Clan player from back in the day, I'd personally love to play Clan Wolf in MWO.

But I'm afraid that too many powergamers are going to abuse Clan tech if we don't have zell and bidding built into gameplay. The Clans are pretty fun if you play them the way they are supposed to be played, it all boils down to a quantity vs quality battle if done correctly.

At any rate, I get where you are coming from, some of my favourite novels are set around 3020 ~ 3030. It would be awesome to play in that era.

[Mordakai]

The game's timeline would no longer adhere to canon at this point. And it's something that would likely not be up to PGI to decide whether they could or couldn't do. From various dev posts and responses, it will take a certain level of merit to attain Clanner Scum status. This in itself would be a bottleneck to prevent too many joining the test tube babies.

While your idea is a good one, I wouldn't hope to see it implemented purely. Though you never know some of the ideas might make it. As for the scale of the Faction Warfare, who knows what it is. It could be small scaling from a single planet, a small portion of the Inner Sphere, to the entire Inner Sphere. I honestly think it will be a single planet, but I can hope for a small portion of the Inner Sphere.

I PERSONALLY would love to see PGI make the Clanners adhere to the very rules of engagement that the Clans used. Smart tactics like Kiting, using cover, focus fire etc. go out the window for the clan's ritualistic version of battle. At least for a couple years. Hey I can dream big too.

Edited by Mordakai, 28 August 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[Aidan Kerensky]

I'd also like to see Zellbrigen and Bidding (especially bidding) make an appearance... though implementation is difficult.

As for the canon, look at EVERY successful "nerd" franchise out there right now. Everything from Comics to Star Trek has had a reboot at some point. Marvel doesn't even acknowledge events more than 10 years old as "canon". DC reboots the universe constantly. The Avengers is going to be the most successful movie of all time and it would make a canon obsessed fan boy wretch.

You keep the canon when it's good for you and you violate it when there's a compelling reason. I think getting the community emotionally invested in the game is a pretty compelling reason. And beyond that, can you imagine ANYTHING they could do that would get MORE press in the trade publications? Doing something like this is probably good for 2-3 page articles in every PC Gaming magazine out there right now (as well as other, non-PC based mags as well).

If the war is a slow march to inevitable results, what reason do we have to play? Leveling up your character only gets you so many hours online. Eventually, there has to be a reason to log on. "Wow, my clan needs me. We're going to lose the 2nd objective on Tukayyid if we don't get enough there." would seem to be a good way to get people logged in and buying things.

[Odanan]

There are ways to balance the clans vs. IS mechs. First, the price of the mechs/components. Second, the match making. A Thor vs. an Atlas is a fair fight. But I can't see how to oblige the clan players to play with clan honor. That's simply impossible.

I agree PGI should have started the game at least 1 year before. We could get used with IS before the Clan Invasion. Talking about Clan Invasion, it would be amazing if at least in 3050 they were NPCs. Are you familiar with the Mann vs. Machine Coop content for Team Fortress 2? Now imagine we, IS pilots, fighting waves (of increasing difficulty) of invading AI clan mechs. ("Shut up PGI and take my money!")

About canon, I'm a purist. Don't touch it.

[Elsydeon]

I say keep it canon.

Remember that the Invading Clans got to be that way due to the strength of their toumans.

Clan Coyote picked a fight with the Snow Ravens (dumb move, **** off Khan McKenna enough and she will just blockade your planet with that big navy everyone laughed about) and ended up getting themselves beat up. While the aforementioned Snow Ravens just got smart and got the Jade Falcons to do the work for them while letting them borrow some WarShips.

Clan Ice Hellion are always good for a laugh at their attempts to be badasses in light Mechs.

Clan Blood Spirit probably still has not crawled out from whatever rock they were under.

Clans Cloud Cobra and Goliath Scorpion are wardens, so no invasion for them.

Clans Steel Viper, Diamond Shark, and ****'s Horses got to play with the big boys later, but were not part of the initial invasion forces.

Clan Fire Mandrill is too busy fighting itself to fight anyone else.

Clan Burrock was too busy stealing everything that was not bolted down, and probably things that were.

Clan Star Adder wanted to play, but actually bid enough forces to do the job and so was rejected.

[Mordakai]

Aidan Kerensky, on 28 August 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

If the war is a slow march to inevitable results, what reason do we have to play? Leveling up your character only gets you so many hours online. Eventually, there has to be a reason to log on. "Wow, my clan needs me. We're going to lose the 2nd objective on Tukayyid if we don't get enough there." would seem to be a good way to get people logged in and buying things.

Yes and No. There is this gray area of canon, called things that could've happened, and weren't documented. Whose to say the clans only invaded mainly in the FRR, what if there was extensive fighting in a key periphery nation?

Take Star Wars for example. Most of the novels take place between, before, or after the movies. Even go as far as to take place during the movies, but tell a different story while the main story is going on. It gives the writer a great deal more of freedom when they operate in the gray areas.

Edit: For example, fighting in certain area of The Draconian Drift or the Rift. Places the Clans might need to support the main invasion.
http://www.sarna.net...heryLayout2.jpg

Edited by Mordakai, 28 August 2012 - 07:59 AM.

[Aidan Kerensky]

It's hard to have us fight in a galactic war that is extremely well developed in canon while still allowing us to actually feel relevant.

[Banekane]

in my opinion and this is my opinion alone is that though the clans invading be canon i think the units of the clans can be made non canon by us the players with allegiance to one of the clans simular how the did the mercs with higher affiliation to a specific house than the others as well as maybe have some pve content added (i know allot dont like this idea) prior to and all through the years after added for major events as a way to apease those who want some sort of campaign mode where all participant will receive a campaign ribbon/citation for their unit that participated in the battles of said events in the timeline as a example the battle of the first invasion of clans will be a campaign event and all mercs lonewolfs and house units that participate get a campaign citation saying they was there what this means is any player to come after said event will not have that citation as they wasnt involved in the battle and only those involved get the citation alot like how the real militarys give awards to those units who participate in operations and key battles throughout history

[AntiSqueaker]

I don't hold much of a grudge against a lot of the old school Clan players, but it seems like a lot of the "new blood" are flocking to the clans because they have the shiniest and best toys.

If MWO isn't really careful about how they implement Clantech, and put in some kind of mandatory Honor Rules or Bidding System that IS doesn't have to deal with (the classic example of a Clan challenging an IS to Zellbrigen, and the IS guy accepting and promply NARCing him for LRM boats comes to mind), i'm betting more than half the people who are currently "signed on" to the IS (clarification: I mean they aren't in one of the "Pre-Clan" groups) will go over to the Clans so they can get their hands on all the best gear.

It's a really tough balancing issue, and honestly no MW game has ever gotten it right. But I have high hopes for PGI.

[AlexEss]

i prefer to sticking to canon with the Clans, simply because the story is so intwined at this stage that changing things would be like like pulling a yarn out of a knitting. The whole thing would fall apart. Had the game started before the clans set out, i could have seen it happen but we are pretty much going in full steam now.


Also start messing with one thing and it all comes down... And before you know it Victor and Hohiro are killed at the forntline and all matter of messed up stuff happen.

[Mordakai]

AntiSqueaker, on 28 August 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

I don't hold much of a grudge against a lot of the old school Clan players, but it seems like a lot of the "new blood" are flocking to the clans because they have the shiniest and best toys.

If MWO isn't really careful about how they implement Clantech, and put in some kind of mandatory Honor Rules or Bidding System that IS doesn't have to deal with (the classic example of a Clan challenging an IS to Zellbrigen, and the IS guy accepting and promply NARCing him for LRM boats comes to mind), i'm betting more than half the people who are currently "signed on" to the IS (clarification: I mean they aren't in one of the "Pre-Clan" groups) will go over to the Clans so they can get their hands on all the best gear.

It's a really tough balancing issue, and honestly no MW game has ever gotten it right. But I have high hopes for PGI.

How they handle Clan Tech, the Invasion, and Faction vs. Faction will be interesting. Hopefully they don't mess it all up. I think the possibility that bothers me the most(based on what I've read so far) is the top X% getting all the best gear to dominate more.

[Banekane]

the way i see it is simple charge a penalty for those aligned to a house or merch group that joins a clan and let lone wolfs (unaligned) join the clans with no penalty however to balance tech allow IS to salvage clan tech weapons after so many fights with the clans some weapons must have been reverse engineered

[Aidan Kerensky]

AlexEss, on 28 August 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

i prefer to sticking to canon with the Clans, simply because the story is so intwined at this stage that changing things would be like like pulling a yarn out of a knitting. The whole thing would fall apart. Had the game started before the clans set out, i could have seen it happen but we are pretty much going in full steam now.


Also start messing with one thing and it all comes down... And before you know it Victor and Hohiro are killed at the forntline and all matter of messed up stuff happen.

They can fairly easily manage to keep important characters alive. But I ask you this, do the individual characters matter? This is not a single player game nor is it an RPG. Are we ever going to interact in any real way with Ulric? Will Aidan Pryde actually show up in game? I think the answeer is no. So why keep it?

[Odanan]

You will interact only with other players and a player never dies - only it's mech is destroyed.
Curiously, there is a player named "Prince Victor Steiner-Davion".