73 replies to this topic

[Dlardrageth]

Rastan, on 29 February 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

I think this is very sensible way to go about it.
Perhaps you could have contingent contracts that automaticly go out to merc's.[...]

Let's take a quick look at the backgrund lore, it might be helpful here. First off, no average Merc outfit "owns" a planet. At best they take up some sort of governorship for the house/faction the planet belongs to. Might make no big difference in-game who is the actual owner of a given planet, except when it comes to who "runs" the planet.

Say, Merc Unit A managed to have a defensive contract for a planet, and is doing well so far. Now as it happens a landing is (pre-scheduled) at a time when due to RL commitments most of that Merc unit cannot or will not show up. So what's plan B? Is the actual owner of the planet, aformentioned House/Faction just going to shrug and write off a whole planet/system? You bet they won't! They will call in the militia.

Which means in in-game terms, there's a good chance a short time prior to the battle the players present from the house/faction in question might get a heads-up/holo newsfeed that a planetary defense is upcoming. Admittedly you might this way getting some sort of ragtag bunch... or not. Luck might have it you get a bunch of serious hard*** players who kick the living **** out of any invader, just for archon, flag and country (or whatever), just because they can. Granted, it would be somewhat relying on chance, but even this dicey contingency, if you want to call it that, is better than having no fallback plan/defence at all, isn't it?

And it would fit the lore, it would fit in-game mechanics somewhat and even be practical to implement. Of course said Merc unit might have to (virtually) buy the beers for the next few days for these house MechWarriors/players, for saving "their" bacon/planet. But sure as hell would make a nice community benefit to have ties grow over time that way. Might even lead to a house warrior taking a tour of duty with the Mercs, or vice versa.

[EDMW]CSN, on 01 March 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

[...] You can have a very very competent core group of players but they all will need sleep, hence you will suffer some where else. Of course if your Corp have excellent players for every timezone and pretty much dominate every single planetary encounter. Then the devs might step in.

In that case they hopefully would, unless they find a way to prevent that straight from the start. The meta-/strategic level devolving into "timezone wars" where in the end the "success" of a unit is measured by how many people they can field in the most inconvenient timezones can't be good for the game. Just leads to total dominance by a very few huge units which try to "win" the game "by numbers". And makes for a less dynamic, less interesting warfare setup.

You mentioned EVE-Online, we had something similar happen in nullsec space there. You had the big powerblocks and not much else. And that basically led to a big part (a fair majority I'd actually say) not bothering, caring or straightaway ignoring said nullsec space. Because it was becoming static and ultimately boring (used to "live" there long enough in one "powerblock", I know what I'm talking about). To keep the "conquest part" of MWO, the meta-level, attractive and dynamic enough, you might have to dig rather deep into that box of ideas one keeps hidden under the desk. Because it has been tried (or so I'd believe) often enough in many games, and it has failed most of the time sadly. There are a few noteable exceptions, but here is neither place nor time to start discussing that one, I reckon.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 01 March 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[Polymorphyne]

World of Tanks had a system where, as I understand it, each day a clan could place chips down to invade adjacent territories or attack landing zones, at which point a battle would automatically be scheduled for primetime the next day between the two clans involved. Territories were split up across the map into a few hours on either side of that time (in a similar way to real timezones) to allow for a bit of variation and for different timezones to stand a chance. Of course, over here in australia we all ended up fighting the battles at 6/7/8/9 am in the morning (though we still kicked ***)

This system did work fairly well.

At first, a massive clan (well it was a group of clans, as clan member numbers are restricted) called the Iron Raiders did control the entirety of russia (it was split into IR-1, IR-2, IR-3, IR-4.... I think they even got to IR-5 and 6). Similar to the situation with Band of Brothers in eve, alot of clans chose to ally with the Iron Raiders rather than have to fight them, creating a huge power bloc controlling a large chunk of territory.

However, when they came across the clan me and Dlardrageth belonged to (Panzacs, which was 3 clans strong, PANZA, PANZR and PANZX) the Panzacs decided not to ally with them and resisted them (its just more fun to fight!). We held out against their allies for a long time (the largely incompetent AoD clan) eventually taking them out, then after I stopped playing (so what I say from here is sketchy/secondhand info), from what I have heard the Panzacs, allied with Marder she Wrote, MLP, and a few other clans actually turned the tables in an alliance to counter IR......... this alliance eventually conquered the entire world map, then having actually WON clan wars, the alliance broke up so they could fight each other for fun.



So it does kind of rely on the players to resist the temptation to just roll over and join larger power blocs- but remember that Mechwarrior has immutable factions (davion, steiner, liao, draconis, etc) that wont merge into larger power blocs. There is a risk that an alliance of mercinary regiments will conquer much of the outer worlds, but the core/faction worlds wont ever be dominated by just a single power bloc- as for a power bloc to form multiple factions would have to somehow ally together. I dont see enough factions banding together to dominate all of the others.

Even if a group does form a dominating power bloc, while these power blocs do snowball as meeker groups join them, it also galvanizes those who have some fight in them to resist. These groups usually end up putting aside their differences to bring down the big "evil empire" (like the alliance that Panzacs joined, or the alliances that formed around Goonswarm to take out BoB in eve)

Edited by Longsword, 01 March 2012 - 03:07 AM.

[Kael Tropheus]

I am hoping its a system where merc units take contracts to hold or attack a planet and it is instanced. I hate scheduled events for something as petty as this, my schedule is erratic enough as it is. A unit that attacks and takes a planet gets benefits until someone else retakes it. Any unit bids on its defense however. I really do not want to wait a day twiddling my thumbs for a battle to commence. I log on, see who is around, jump into a battle.

Like the guy above said, in 99% of the cases a merc unit doesnt own a planet and simply takes contracts to defend it.

[GDL Germ]

Gray death legion is prepared to take on contracts such as this with a full company =) and also with a uk company in the making so day/night.

[Maris]

Kael Tropheus, on 01 March 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

I am hoping its a system where merc units take contracts to hold or attack a planet and it is instanced. I hate scheduled events for something as petty as this, my schedule is erratic enough as it is. A unit that attacks and takes a planet gets benefits until someone else retakes it. Any unit bids on its defense however. I really do not want to wait a day twiddling my thumbs for a battle to commence. I log on, see who is around, jump into a battle. Like the guy above said, in 99% of the cases a merc unit doesnt own a planet and simply takes contracts to defend it.

This.

In fact, it may be that multiple merc units can take "defend" contracts for a single planet, as long as the units are in good relations with the House Faction that really owns the planet. Of course, it may also be that there has to be a certain threshold for every planet on how many can actually defend a certain planet at any one time. And of course, there should also be a certain limit on how many planets/contracts a single merc unit can undertake, which should be scalable with the unit size and/or standings, until it hits a fixed hardcap.

[Rastan]

I really doubt there will be a long warning period.

I've played games where there was NO warning and had only base defenses to hold attackers at bay while you arrived to defend.


we wont really know til it's out, But I think at best you might get 15mins.. from what i've read this game is going to be very action orianted and doubt there will be much idle time.

[Big Willie]

Here is some speculation:

You are a Merc company and you look down at your star-map. There is are several boarder worlds nearby that you may want to attack. Each of these world has a resoruce or benefit for holding. Each of these also shows the current owner (Merc company).

You pick one of the world that offers resources you want, and bid for a contract to attack. Cost of bid is proabably based on the Number of Mechs/Lance you want to attack with and value of the planet. Once the Contract is settled the resident Merc company is notified (highest ranking member online).

Once notified the defender can opt to defend or retreat. If the Merc company opts to defend, they muchs match the size of the opposing force, if they do not have enough players online, then Lone Wolf players are queued to assist.

This is all just guesswork, but the system must be fast and efficient otherwise everyone will spend all their time in the lobby instead of the battlefield.

[Rastan]

Now that's a thought.. say it's 12v12 limit and you bring 8 mechs.. Im only allowed to defend with 8?

If I had to guess (and hope) I should be able to bring the entire 12.. sucks that you only brought 8 but maybe you should'nt have attacked in the 1st place.

[Colorfinger]

My guess is it will be a pretty straight forward system. Larger or more populated planets will be harder to control than smaller or empty planets. Each planet will be separated into zones. You have to control a majority (or a given % which could be 70 or even 100%) of said planet to own it. That would mean as a small unit we would have to go in and fight a bunch of battles to gain control of the planet. If we are a small group, that will be an up hill battle because unit Z is also assaulting the planet and gaining ground. We may face off or we may not, depending on the instances. Now lets say Z logs off and we fend off X and Y thus gaining the planet before going to bed. Z, though, is huge and another group from their unit assaults the planet while we are unable to defend. Now they own the required % and they have control of the planet but have never fought us.

This gives a huge advantage to people who fight for a larger unit because they will be able to occupy more easily. Which, of course, is more realistic. I'm sure the benefits, however, will make it more rewarding to do it in a small group and easier to do it in a large group. In addition, just because Merc group Z owns the planet now doesn't mean all of Z get the benefit. The devs may set it up so your company has to have been involved to gain the benefit or perhaps a staggered benefit system based on your units location and involvement in the conquest.

The key being, though, that it is zone control and not direct X vs Z battles that determined planet control. That kind of system makes it much easier for casual gamers to keep interested. Some people can't leave work at 6 just because there is a scheduled BT game at 7:00.

(Admittedly I missed a few posts handing RL while waiting to type this so if this has already been addressed, sorry about that.)

[Big Willie]

Rastan, on 01 March 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Now that's a thought.. say it's 12v12 limit and you bring 8 mechs.. Im only allowed to defend with 8?

If I had to guess (and hope) I should be able to bring the entire 12.. sucks that you only brought 8 but maybe you should'nt have attacked in the 1st place.

It is entirely possible that we wont get to choose the battle size. All battles will be 12v12. Doing so will probably greatly benefit the Lone Wolf contingent, who may otherwise have nothing to do a lot of the time.

It would actually be even more interesting if you could attack with a lot more than 12 mechs. Obviously the limit per side will be 12, but you could have 3 simultanious battles with 12 each. This would give a huge advantage to a large and well organized Merc unit. who would generally have sufficient teammates on hand for the attack, while a defender may be forced to rely heavily on a PUG (pick up group) of Lone Wolf, who probably wont have a voice channel ready to go.

(although I suspect in most cases the advantage will be to the attacker who gets to plan his battles)

Edited by Big Willie, 01 March 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[Thom Frankfurt]

Totally. I'd hate to go to bed with the CapCon flag flying, only to wake up with the Sunburst of the Fed Suns flying over my head...

But being that I'm from the Confederation, I've grown used to that.

Edited by Thom Frankfurt, 01 March 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[Rastan]

well If I have it my way

1. Wont be instanced.. all territory unique.
2. you fight with what you brought, no cutting up battles.
3. defenders will be given the advantage via stationary defenses, auto guns and perhaps light tanks/heli/infantry.

I hope they do not make it a "me too" kind of thing.. you should have to fight for it, and it should have rewards to match the effort.

lone wolfs and small squads maybe can contract their services out or merge into a larger force, small groups can hire others to help attack as well as to defend.


No one's gonna like to hear this but if you're small group and you can't afford to hire others to help then perhaps you don't deserve territory of your own, They need to be prized.

[Kenyon Burguess]

12 people shouldnt be hard for a merc company to find to defend themselves. maybe a planet militia option would be made available to fill in the holes with lone wolf/pugs