57 replies to this topic

[Durant Carlyle]

I wouldn't mind this as long as the cloud is gone within 2-5 seconds. Shouldn't be a fog of war thing for too long...

[Ravn]

I would think that would also be dependent upon the surrounding terrain. It shouldn't break the game, but just as an example...


That isn't just going away in 2-5 seconds. Killing someones LOS is still advantageous, very much so if they don't have any sensor modules. This is overkill but you could do this as you beat a retreat...

[Durant Carlyle]

But having something like that would mean that extra vision modules would be practically required for every 'Mech -- and that IS game-breaking. Having the jump jet cloud clear out quickly gives both a momentary fog of war and doesn't overly disadvantage those pilots who don't have extra vision modules.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

These "imbalances" are going to be common in the game. Different mechs will have different numbers of slots. What modules you have will depend on how far you have progressed in various trees. Which will generally relate to how long you have been playing the game. It is never going to be "equal" so I don't see why, on a desert map, dust clouds shouldn't be a problem. If you have dry grassland and set it on fire to cover an advance or retreat, surely that is a valid tactic?

[Felicitatem Parco]

This whole game is about Information Warfare and tracking your enemies. I think that creating a massive cloud upon takeoff should depend on the surrounding terrain, of course, but the visual obstruction should be a significant visual hinderance.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 February 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[Dlardrageth]

Prosperity Park, on 16 February 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

This whole game is about Information Warfare and tracking your enemies. I think that creating a massive cloud upon takeoff should depend on the surrounding terrain, of course, but the visual obstruction should be a significant visual hinderance.

I think noone is actually debating that part. Kind of common sense really that a big dust/mud/soil cloud impedes visual sight. The issue I'm still pondering is how much of a technical matter it might become with big particle clouds. If it requires significant system resources and thus makes for lag/performance issues, it becomes more than just a "hinderance". It might become a major balancing issue between players with high-end/low-end computers and better/worse server connections. In particular if you cannot turn it off like has been advocated here already.

Sort of a homegrown "Pay2Win" matter, either you get a top-of-the-line gaming rig at home (which may cost a bit) and pray for a good internet connection or the enemy team will just lag you to hell by exploiting the load of system resources a huge particle cloud or three require. And to me winning by luck of internet connnection or more expensive computer tastes a bit lame. YMMV.

[MaddMaxx]

And remember what "always" comes out of those bloody dust clouds?

Pissed off ATLASES is what. LOL

Edited by MaddMaxx, 16 February 2012 - 09:45 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

MaddMaxx, on 16 February 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

And remember what "always" comes out of those bloody dust clouds?

Pissed off ATLASES is what. LOL

That's a good example for the level of obfuscation the dust causes and for how long it should take before it clears.... to reveal your BEST friend!

[Zakatak]

ALSO!

A jumpjet is basically a tube carrying superheated plasma from the reactor, with the air itself used as the propellant. That means that jumpjets burn at 1.5 MILLION DEGREES Celsius! So I want to see scorch marks in the ground.

[syngyne]

Zakatak, on 30 March 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

A jumpjet is basically a tube carrying superheated plasma from the reactor, with the air itself used as the propellant. That means that jumpjets burn at 1.5 MILLION DEGREES Celsius! So I want to see scorch marks in the ground.

That's two orders of magnitude off... temperatures in test reactors now are over 150 million degrees Celsius.

[Shai tan]

I am ALL for this. It would look totall azz if there wasn`t some kind of visuals enviromental effect of both jet exhaust, and ground wash.

"Too many shooters I find I have to turn down graphics settings to be competitive."

I would hope Dev teams 1 day have the balls to force this kinda stuff so everyone plays the game as the Devs intended. As apposed to glitch/exploit hunt to be.... competitive.

Edited by shai`tan, 30 March 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[Ninja Chef]

Yes! This would be an awesome way to run and gun. Blitzkrieg ambush the enemy, shoot 'em up, jumpjet over them to blind them and land on the other side to blast them into bits.

[Shai tan]

Love to see some subtle screen shake as well when jetting. This way there is a penalty and we can`t take to the air blitzing everyone. SA sort of "The Lord Giveth, and the Lord Taketh away" thing. ;p

[TrentTheWanderer]

shai`tan, on 31 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Love to see some subtle screen shake as well when jetting. This way there is a penalty and we can`t take to the air blitzing everyone. SA sort of "The Lord Giveth, and the Lord Taketh away" thing. ;p

That's a good idea. It doesn't make sense to be firing weapons and doing other inertially-chaotic things anyways when you are yourself a ballistic projectile. XD

Durant Carlyle, on 16 February 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

But having something like that would mean that extra vision modules would be practically required for every 'Mech -- and that IS game-breaking. Having the jump jet cloud clear out quickly gives both a momentary fog of war and doesn't overly disadvantage those pilots who don't have extra vision modules.

I think that vision module handicap is going to be INTENTIONAL, so as to require communication and cooperation, and also to provide some balance amongst mechs which will be naturally more powerful than others without those very serious line-of-sight limitations.

[Long Draw]

How about if you fire any weapons while not firmly on the ground your mech loses balance, plummeting to the ground, potentially causing loss of limb/weapons/armor/etc.

[Ravn]

Unlikely. Even in air, mechs have a robust gyroscopic system to adjust thrust vectoring of Jump Jets to compensate balance issues.

[Long Draw]

Ravn, on 29 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Unlikely. Even in air, mechs have a robust gyroscopic system to adjust thrust vectoring of Jump Jets to compensate balance issues.

Enough to counter the reactionary force of firing an Ultra AC20? lol!

[Attalward]

I would like all effects possible in game, speacially with jumpjets i hope they end up with something as impressive as a spaceshuttle launch.

[Ravn]

Long Draw, on 30 April 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Enough to counter the reactionary force of firing an Ultra AC20? lol!

Even if you packed an AC20 onto a 20 ton light mech, the jump jets are vectoring out at least 40,000 lbs of thrust or Impulse.

An M1A1 Abrams tank shoots a 120mm shell with a muzzle velocity of 5,700 fps to an effective range of 4000 meters. This produces a weapons impulse of 57,630 Newton seconds or about 13,000 pound seconds (lbs of thrust). The actual "felt" recoil will be much less because of muzzle brakes (partial recoil elimination) and dual recoil systems (spreads impulse over time).

Even if your model of AC20 is firing a massive single 200mm round at the same velocity (21,666 pounds of impulse) your jump jets can revector the 50,000 lbs of thrust it is dumping out to keep you upright... but not on target obviously. Isn't physics awesome!?

Edited by Ravn, 30 April 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[Long Draw]

Yes, and I took Advanced Placement Physics in school and the problem I see is your jump jets can only vector so much before you stop producing sufficient thrust to maintain vertical thrust due to your total mass. Which brings an image to mind... Jenner firing two AC20's on a low gravity moon lmao! Would be hilarious if someone went flying out into the depths of space just because they shot a big gun on a moon!!!