79 replies to this topic

[Thorn Hallis]

Nighthound, on 03 March 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

The same (but maybe not all Houses can get them) .... If you know the Post-Invasion-IS-Map only Federated Suns, Draconis Combine and the Free Republic of Rasalhague are hit in the Invasion, all other Houses are facing away from the Invasion Corridor.

So if you are playing for the Invaded Houses there will be missions/contracts for you of the Type "get out of there fast" or "hold them of as long as you can", and if you are playing for a Non-Invaded House you could get a "civilian rescue" mission or a "scout/recon" mission. I never saw it stated anywere that we only get "seek and destroy" missions. Would be rather boring after a while.

Just pulling stuff out of my head here, but I bet there could be 100s of Missions were losing would be winning and vice versa, and it would be kind of silly to only give missions to mercs ..... wouldn't it?

I like the idea. Its a bit like Risk, where your opponents never knew what your real objective was.

Though I think it will be to complex to be implemented at release.

[Nighthound]

Feels a bit like us 2 talking all the time, but you are quite right of course it would be to complex at release.

[Thorn Hallis]

Probably because both of us have nothing better to do on saturday evenings.

(Und wir trainieren unsere Englisch-Fähigkeiten!)

[Nighthound]

Thumbs up

[renegade mitchell]

Nighthound, on 03 March 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Ok nice discussion overall but some of you are missing something. At the beginning of the Clan invasion at the end of 3049, most (not all, but most) IS Mechs were still 3025 (=bombed back to Stonage-) Technology. Thus the Clans were able to overrun the IS with nearly no problems. So if the devs introduce Clan players they could leave everything canon and just allow Clan players to rampage through the IS (up to a point) for 2.5 years, thus creating the feeling of dread for all those IS players unfamiliar with the lore, and then introduce a new Faction (ComStar), hold one big (3 Week) game event, which ComStar has to win by default, and declare all remaing IS Planets off limits for Clan players. In the meantime they can introduce new Mechs or old Mechs with upgraded Technology and from this Point forward balancing would be fairly easy with the afore mentioned 10vs.12 Battles (20% is exacty the marigin specified in the rulebooks). Voila, done, no worries at all. For internal Clan combat balancing is no problem at all. All RP related stuff will go out of the window at first sight, because you will never get a casual player invest time and/or brainpower to adhere to a fictional code or lore. For Clan Bloodnames the devs could just hold a once a month tournament in form of a Giant Grand Bloodname Melee and the winner gets the Bloodname that was advertised for this event. And please read up on your lore , there are upto 25 Bloodrights (= Bloodname bearers) per Bloodname of wich there are plenty, so no worries there either. my 5 cents PS: The devs could easily just divide the times stated by 2 or 3. Or cut the 2.5 years to a few days or weeks and advance the ingame timline by 2 years or somesuch. PPS: Sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes, english is not my first language.

Great post if the Devs follow stricly BT lore. Gameplay wise it is a bad idea. When clans come, I say IS gets clan tech as well. But definitely no mixed tech, but puretech only. Clan weapons on clan mechs, and IS weapons on IS mechs only.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Sug, on 15 February 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

The dev's would pretty much have to hire and train people to act like clanners. Otherwise you'd get a small group of players that would just steamroll everyone.

i'll take the job

[Nighthound]

Renegade Mitchell, on 03 March 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Great post if the Devs follow stricly BT lore. Gameplay wise it is a bad idea. When clans come, I say IS gets clan tech as well. But definitely no mixed tech, but puretech only. Clan weapons on clan mechs, and IS weapons on IS mechs only.

I am not realy sure but I think I read somewere that looting and salvage was not possible anyway, and if you stick to canon its just not possible to mix it up anyway. And as far as I know it you can count the IS Pilots piloting ClanMechs rather easily (meaning there are only a very few)

IS would get Lostech (ER-Lasers, Ultra-ACs, CASE and so forth) after the Invasion so that after Tukayyid the 3025-Tech to Lostech ratio would be reversed, meaning only inactive Account would still have 3025-Tech Mechs .... or somesuch.

Dirk Le Daring, on 03 March 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

i'll take the job

Wich one? The steamrolling or the teaching?

Edited by Nighthound, 03 March 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Whetu]

Clans are just boring.

They have better skills, better gear and get all the chicks.

I prefer 3025 and even 3050 IS, but as soon as the Clanners arrive the games loses all balance. The best way to have the Clans that I ever played with was for the Clans to use their same skill levels and just 2750 tech meks. Proved to be a super interesting campaign.

Clan tech is just way overpowered. ER PPCs that hit like Gauss Rifles, ER Large Lasers that hit like PPCs, but with the range of a AC2. Double ranged pulse weapons, targeting computers, ultra and LB cannons and the micro LRMs with no minimum range.

The Clans are fun for those who like to RP, but how many people really RP online?

The Clans attracts the munchkins like bees to honey and I like to play a fun game and the Clans no matter what you say, just aren't balanced and thus just not fun.

What the munchkins do is pretend to be Clans, but as soon as the IS do their standard free for all, the munchkin clanners go all out and prove what great warriors they are with their superior starting skills and tech.

At best Clans play well with other Clans and IS with each other, but they just don't mix well together.

So playing Clans is just boring for me.

[renegade mitchell]

Whetu, on 03 March 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Clans are just boring.

They have better skills, better gear and get all the chicks.

I prefer 3025 and even 3050 IS, but as soon as the Clanners arrive the games loses all balance. The best way to have the Clans that I ever played with was for the Clans to use their same skill levels and just 2750 tech meks. Proved to be a super interesting campaign.

Clan tech is just way overpowered. ER PPCs that hit like Gauss Rifles, ER Large Lasers that hit like PPCs, but with the range of a AC2. Double ranged pulse weapons, targeting computers, ultra and LB cannons and the micro LRMs with no minimum range.

The Clans are fun for those who like to RP, but how many people really RP online?

The Clans attracts the munchkins like bees to honey and I like to play a fun game and the Clans no matter what you say, just aren't balanced and thus just not fun.

What the munchkins do is pretend to be Clans, but as soon as the IS do their standard free for all, the munchkin clanners go all out and prove what great warriors they are with their superior starting skills and tech.

At best Clans play well with other Clans and IS with each other, but they just don't mix well together.

So playing Clans is just boring for me.

Yeah but you forgot to mention the IS Light Gauss which out ranges any clan weapon. Again, team skill and experience comes to play.

[Muscrat]

That and five to a star at the least against four to the lance would either unbalance things or make them inherently difficult to keep with the battletech universe...

[Nighthound]

Whetu, on 03 March 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Clans are just boring.

They have better skills, better gear and get all the chicks.

I prefer 3025 and even 3050 IS, but as soon as the Clanners arrive the games loses all balance. The best way to have the Clans that I ever played with was for the Clans to use their same skill levels and just 2750 tech meks. Proved to be a super interesting campaign.

Clan tech is just way overpowered. ER PPCs that hit like Gauss Rifles, ER Large Lasers that hit like PPCs, but with the range of a AC2. Double ranged pulse weapons, targeting computers, ultra and LB cannons and the micro LRMs with no minimum range.

The Clans are fun for those who like to RP, but how many people really RP online?

The Clans attracts the munchkins like bees to honey and I like to play a fun game and the Clans no matter what you say, just aren't balanced and thus just not fun.

What the munchkins do is pretend to be Clans, but as soon as the IS do their standard free for all, the munchkin clanners go all out and prove what great warriors they are with their superior starting skills and tech.

At best Clans play well with other Clans and IS with each other, but they just don't mix well together.

So playing Clans is just boring for me.

You can't say they have the better skills they are just players like you and me and it would be quite unfair if the devs gave them a superiour pilot-skill-tree.
The better gear is correct but with 3050 aka lostech the IS is not that far behind and if you take into account that IS vs. Clan will most likely be 12 vs. 10 that last bit of gear advantage must compensate for 2 more Mechs.
I play TT for over 13 years now and I find that there is always a possibility to balance things out, and I play 3025, 3050 to 3062 IS and Clan and IS vs. Clan I very rarely see an unfair match. It's just a question of balancing.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Nighthound, on 03 March 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Sorry I may be wrong but that sounds to me like they intend just what I said. (QuiAff?)



And again that sounds to me like they intend just what I said. (QuiAff?)


Please correct me if I am wrong.

Neg so you stand corrected. Core Worlds just means there will be worlds primarily under the control of whatever specific faction weilds military power there but it is still NOT a world that affects the timeline. Which is why the DEVS control it.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 03 March 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Nighthound]

Hum... maybe you are right, but we will see

[Thorn Hallis]

Nighthound, on 03 March 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

You can't say they have the better skills they are just players like you and me and it would be quite unfair if the devs gave them a superiour pilot-skill-tree.

I think he refers to the tabletop, where a regular clan warrior is 3/4 for piloting and gunnery instead of 4/5 for regular IS pilots.

[LackofCertainty]

These sorts of threads are the kind that bug me. You can't really talk about balance or gameplay specifics like this, until you've seen how the game works. Just to take one item from your list, you mentioned that Clan tech/mechs are superior to IS tech/mechs.

Hrm... let me think about how this could be balanced for five seconds. Hey! What if Clan Vs. IS battles were stacked as they would be number wise? Clan mechs are stronger, but the IS get more mechs.

Wow, that was a hard problem to fix. Clearly I must be the first person who thought of this -radical- new idea.

[Terrain]

Good thing we're all just people trying to have fun, clan or inner sphere.

[guardian wolf]

Muscrat, on 03 March 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

That and five to a star at the least against four to the lance would either unbalance things or make them inherently difficult to keep with the battletech universe...

Dude, it is binaries against companies, I am going with Wolf as soon as they arrive, and I can't wait to get that extra challenge of being outnumbered, which IF you guys use correctly could outdo us on all levels, but you have to plan for situations like that. It is like going against a team of 10, when they have fully automatic BB guns, and you have your team of 12, with single shots. It does not look to good at first, but if you plan correctly, you can still out do the enemy.

[Vergial]

I like that this silly thread is even still alive (and by posting, I'm bumping, but there ya go).

Anywho, I'll make the argument that several people right at the start of the thread did that should have ended this discussion right at the get-go, but I'll do it in a much shorter way.

The game isn't even out yet. If this company balances Clans, the Clans will be in the game. If you whine about it, then tough for you. Clanners will ALWAYS be a part of BattleTech, whether you like it or not.

On that note, if they choose to omit the Clans, I won't complain either way.

I've already seen WONDERFUL balancing ideas for the Clans, but I get the feeling most of the fodder replying to this thread are just people who read the first post and are instantly in a mood of "OHMUGUH I NED TU REPLIE".

Read the whole thread guys. Most of your worries have been put to rest 3 pages ago. If the Devs implement Clans, it WILL be balanced. It won't be too hard to balance as it is.

[Zarkan]

The only real issue here I think is the clan tech v. spheroid tech balance issues. Most of the rest is probably ultimately going to come down to weather the player base at the higher levels it will really start appearing in are themselves willing to enforce it.

[Slepnir]

The OPs listis a bit flawed. zellbrigan and clan honor vary from clan to clan so thats not a hard and solid standard. additionally clanners will not make physical attacks period if they follow strict zell not even when all other opportunies are exhuasted. there is more honor in retiring from the field to a superior foe than to denigrate your clans honor by reverting to such tactics.


It's a game when it comes to speach and contractions i think you may be going just a bit over the line with reasonableness if you expect players to roleplay to that extend.