42 replies to this topic

[JD White]

Just an observation, but...

While PUG playing today, (after yet another quick death), I started cycling through all the survivors on my team. Guess what? ALL ECM Mechs. And I also know, from past experience, that its USUALLY an ECM equipped mech that is the last mech standing in any PUG match.

So, lets say that a new player is in my seat, watching through to the end of a match.

If all they ever see is that ECM Mechs last the longest, then guess what they just might start to believe? Perhaps, that ECM Mechs are better than any other mech, because they last the longest.

The lighter ECM Mechs are far cheaper than Heavy's or Assault's, so you can twink out that mech with your Cadet Bonus to your hearts content, and also always live through to the end, nearly every match!

So as a new player, why would you play anything else? If your goal is just to play the game and have fun, that means you want to LIVE through a match. Even if you are the last man standing in a Mech as fast as the wind, and with one small laser as a weapon...

Until, of course, you save up to get that "Uber" ECM Atlas...

Just what is the incentive for a new player to play anything else? Any wonder there is so much ECM in nearly every match?

Just my few cents worth...

[Voridan Atreides]

PGI is biased towards lights .

[Protoculture]

Voridan Atreides, on 17 January 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

PGI is biased towards lights .

This. Also ECM is ridiculously OP, even if it had a real counter; and right now it doesn't.

[Commander Binz]

I exclusively play solo... and my two main mechs are ECM-Raven and ECM-Atlas. In fact, those are my only two mechs.

Because i dont play that much, when I do play I want to have fun, and last till the end...

Due to that fact, I love my ECM mechs for a simple reason -

There are three main damage types, ballistics, lasers, and missiles.

ECM gives you a 33% damage reduction (most of the time) for a neglibile amount of tonnage and space. Sure, i get killed a lot by lasers or ballistics (or SRM6s, but those are basically ballistics), but I almost never get hit by LRM volleys.

Because of that, my "Brawler" atlas with 3SRM4+A, 2 LL and 2 AC2 only has to worry about whats right in front of him.. and not the LRM boat 1000m away.

Its a fun way to play, and thats why I play it. Im not an expert, but i still do very well just about every game (even losing ones) and I mostly attribute it to ECM.

[Chunkylad]

But they ARE better. Less detection radius, prevents LRM lock, prevents streak lock, prevents enemy LRMs and streaks from locking... what isn't good about it? Hence why the Commando and Raven with ECM are so popular. Support, disruption, stealth.

[MrPenguin]

Commander Binz, on 17 January 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

ECM gives you a 33% damage reduction

Since when?

[Mercules]

Here is why ECM mechs survive longer.

If I flank out to the left in PUG with no voice chat and spot an ECM mech at 300 meters... no one knows. Instead of the 7 coming and joining me in focus firing down the lone mech they go trundling off towards those 3-4 they can sense at 700+ meters. So ECM mechs often end up in 1 on 1 fights... if they hide a couple friends in their ECM field..... you see where this is going.

[Commander Binz]

MrPenguin, on 17 January 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Since when?

What I am referring to here is 1/3 chance that the enemy weapon system is ineffective, giving you an "effective" 33% reduction.

Lasers and Ballistics will still hurt you obviously, less so in my LagRaven, but it allows me to concentrate on brawling in my atlas and be *mostly* immune to LRM fire.

[JD White]

My point is less about how OP ECM is, but that a whole new crop of players see it as OP, and in fact it is the only FUN way to play the game. What incentive is there for a new player to play ANY Mech that does not have ECM? Sorry, but I can not think of any. I'm concerned that at SOME point, people will only be playing ECM equipped Mechs OR Trial Mechs. That will lead to a VERY bland game folks.

There should be, no, NEEDS to be some sort of incentive to play the other mech types. Right now as it stands, it is just not in game.

[Serapth]

ECM is easy mode. It basically makes you LRM proof for the beginning of the round and invisible to radar once the dancing starts. On top of that, it costs basically nothing ( 400K, 2 crits and 1.5 tons.... sames as AMS ).


I don't play ECM much until the evening rolls around and it becomes a lot more ecm/premade heavy, at which point I play my ECM Atlas almost exclusively.

I never played the ECM Raven though, that's too cheese on too many levels.

[Fabian Wrede]

MM needs to balance ecm for each side to equal numbers, but that will never happen since devs don't care about forum and there customers. Until they do something about that, game will be bleeding users as more and more become frustraded about lack of response from devs about issues with ecm and it's affect on game balance and fun factor

Edited by Wrede, 17 January 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Ryokens leap]

Observation by an old guy. The current generation needs instant gratification and ECM/ lag shield easy mode is the best way for players to dislocate their own shoulders patting themselves on the back in self congratulatory celebration of inflated k/d. K/d is a bs stat for team game, only team win/loss should matter until Solaris type mode is enabled where personal scores matter. On another note, fed up with light scouts that find the elusive lrm boat raining death, tell everyone where it is and isn't on the ball enough to hit it from behind to keep it from targeting team mates! Love this game even with headaches. Okay proceed to pile on, I can take it.

[Protoculture]

Ryokens leap, on 17 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Observation by an old guy. The current generation needs instant gratification and ECM/ lag shield easy mode is the best way for players to dislocate their own shoulders patting themselves on the back in self congratulatory celebration of inflated k/d. K/d is a bs stat for team game, only team win/loss should matter until Solaris type mode is enabled where personal scores matter. On another note, fed up with light scouts that find the elusive lrm boat raining death, tell everyone where it is and isn't on the ball enough to hit it from behind to keep it from targeting team mates! Love this game even with headaches. Okay proceed to pile on, I can take it.

<3 QFT

[Havyek]

Not enough people in LRM boats are using all of the tools they have available.

They load up on LRMs, try and target an ECM equipped 'Mech 700m away and can't, then complain about ECM being OP.

Use TAG.
Except for the Catapult A1, any missile boat has an energy hardpoint that can be used to mount a TAG.
Hell my Stalker LRM build has 5 LRM15s and still mounts a TAG. If I can see you before you get to 180m, you're going to have a bad time.

[Taizan]

The fun thing is, many ECM mech pilots forget that LRMs can still be targetted manually. They stand still on a ridge and think they can pew pew everyone without getthing hit by LRMs. You still can force them to take cover with Artillery, just not that efficient, even if they are OOR for TAG.

[Grraarrgghh]

Ryokens leap, on 17 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Observation by an old guy. The current generation needs instant gratification and ECM/ lag shield easy mode is the best way for players to dislocate their own shoulders patting themselves on the back in self congratulatory celebration of inflated k/d. K/d is a bs stat for team game, only team win/loss should matter until Solaris type mode is enabled where personal scores matter. On another note, fed up with light scouts that find the elusive lrm boat raining death, tell everyone where it is and isn't on the ball enough to hit it from behind to keep it from targeting team mates! Love this game even with headaches. Okay proceed to pile on, I can take it.

That's great old man. Now tell me how this matters in a competitive match in any way, shape, or form since you rightfully acknowledge that this is a team game.

Edited by Grraarrgghh, 17 January 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[Lykaon]

Serapth, on 17 January 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

ECM is easy mode. It basically makes you LRM proof for the beginning of the round and invisible to radar once the dancing starts. On top of that, it costs basically nothing ( 400K, 2 crits and 1.5 tons.... sames as AMS ).


I don't play ECM much until the evening rolls around and it becomes a lot more ecm/premade heavy, at which point I play my ECM Atlas almost exclusively.

I never played the ECM Raven though, that's too cheese on too many levels.

That's odd I play my Raven 3L in pugs for exactally the same reason.The enemy will have them so my team should also have them and they gain the added advantage of me piloting their Raven 3L while most of the time the enemy Raven is an ECM noob warrior who can't hit a moving light with lasers or figure out how counter mode works.

I know how to use ECM when to counter when to recon when to regroup with the rest of my pug team.
My Raven isn't even the "optimal" 3 laser 2 streak launcher 295XL so common with noob warriors these days.

I run a 280XL,TAG,AMS,ECM and BAP with every imaginable sensor enhancing moduel.I pilot a solid recon platform that has the added bonus of having 1.5 tons of utter cheese in the right torso.

If you are on my team and have LRMs guess what? you will have targets TAGed and Locked with my 360 target retention moduel allowing me to run top speed circles around the target and retain the lock.

If the other team has ECM I hunt them down and kill them.I TAG their heavy and assault mechs harrass their missile boats counter their ECM I am a one mech force multiplyer from hell.

If you see my Raven out on the feild and you are also in a light mech stick to me we are going places.

[Jakob Knight]

BDU Havoc, on 17 January 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Not enough people in LRM boats are using all of the tools they have available.

They load up on LRMs, try and target an ECM equipped 'Mech 700m away and can't, then complain about ECM being OP.

Use TAG.
Except for the Catapult A1, any missile boat has an energy hardpoint that can be used to mount a TAG.
Hell my Stalker LRM build has 5 LRM15s and still mounts a TAG. If I can see you before you get to 180m, you're going to have a bad time.

Which is why they made ECM to block detection outside of 200m, and block TAG inside 180m. Also, TAG does you no good if you can't hold it on target LOS long enough to get a lock, fire your missiles, and have those missiles hit before you lose TAG hit....which terrain designed to promote close-in fighting under 250 m makes almost a certainty.

And of course, the idea of making LRMs the only weapon system able to indirectly support your team is ignored because people only think combat should be direct-fire. Combined with the minimum range that only LRMs have, and which was the price they paid for being able to fire indirectly, the easy ability of enemy units to move behind cover to stop missiles you launched from hitting, fast speed to make sure that missiles that somehow manage to reach their target explode behind them, and anti-missile systems to degrade damage output on anything that gets through all that, andthe end result is that using TAG is a non-solution for LRM support users.

[Serapth]

Lykaon, on 17 January 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

That's odd I play my Raven 3L in pugs for exactally the same reason.The enemy will have them so my team should also have them and they gain the added advantage of me piloting their Raven 3L while most of the time the enemy Raven is an ECM noob warrior who can't hit a moving light with lasers or figure out how counter mode works.

I know how to use ECM when to counter when to recon when to regroup with the rest of my pug team.
My Raven isn't even the "optimal" 3 laser 2 streak launcher 295XL so common with noob warriors these days.

I run a 280XL,TAG,AMS,ECM and BAP with every imaginable sensor enhancing moduel.I pilot a solid recon platform that has the added bonus of having 1.5 tons of utter cheese in the right torso.

If you are on my team and have LRMs guess what? you will have targets TAGed and Locked with my 360 target retention moduel allowing me to run top speed circles around the target and retain the lock.

If the other team has ECM I hunt them down and kill them.I TAG their heavy and assault mechs harrass their missile boats counter their ECM I am a one mech force multiplyer from hell.

If you see my Raven out on the feild and you are also in a light mech stick to me we are going places.

The reason I think the 3l is too cheese isn't specifically ECM ( I dont find the Cicada ECM or Spider ECM cheese ), but the fact the model is so broken. I actually think the mech should be pulled from the game, like the patch threatened to do with the spider, until it can be reliably shot at. It seems to be taking 2-3 times the damage it should require to kill them. At this point playing the Raven 3l is pretty damned close to exploiting an ingame bug.

[Jakob Knight]

Taizan, on 17 January 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

The fun thing is, many ECM mech pilots forget that LRMs can still be targetted manually. They stand still on a ridge and think they can pew pew everyone without getthing hit by LRMs. You still can force them to take cover with Artillery, just not that efficient, even if they are OOR for TAG.

Fun thing is that, if it is within 200m, you won't do any damage. And while you are trying to get hits on a target that can just walk a few meters and be immune, you are taking fire from every enemy mech that can see you because you had to sit in the open yourself to line up the shots.

It's not artillery. Artillery is indirect fire. This is just a really, really slow gun which can't do any damage at the range they might actually hit anything.

Very astute suggestion if the enemy is sitting absolutely still, isn't looking at you to see the blazing missiles arcing toward them, and continues to do so after your first volley hits (which won't do significant damage due to low missile damage and high spread of the volley without lock). In my experience, this only happens with mechs that don't have pilots in them anymore.