33 replies to this topic

[Dr Killinger]

Hey guys

I can't help but feel that one-shot kills have no place in Mechwarrior. Battletech weapons such as the Arrow IV and Long Tom arevery powerful, but when you're killed in one shot, not knowing where your death came from, only to respawn and have it happen again, is very frustrating.

Of course, walking into the face of an Atlas with a Jenner is stupid and will result in a swift death, but even the Jenner will last a second or two of sustained fire, it won't suddenly "POOF!", and you're dead from over 1km away.

So, will this game have these weapons of mass destruction? I, for one, hope not. It detracts from the feeling of driving a huge armoured death machine.

For this same reason, air strikes and artillery worry me. We probably won't see it coming, and next thing an entire lance is dead. I guess everyone will just spread out to reduce casualties, but losing 2 guys every game to an invisible foe within the first few seconds will be very, very irritating.

[Brenden]

Trust me, they will be in the game but either incredibly rare, expensive or inaccurate to the point of becoming useless.
The thing you should worry about is MY Shadow Hawk and his PPC of doom, which will blow your cockpit right off your mech,
Or take it and use it to beat you into submission.

[Havoc2]

I have mixed feelings about this.

1 shot kills should be a skill thing, not clicking on this area and dropping death from the sky.

1 shot kills should also not be from a single weapon. Maybe 1 salvo kills possible.
In the example given, if the Atlas has enough weapons, there is no reason that he can't destroy a Jenner in 1 salvo (a salvo being either 1) an alpha strike or 2) a single cycle of all available weapons or 3) a cycle of all available weapon groups).

[ManDaisy]

love it or leave it, ac 20 will always be the 1 shot kill weapon. Although I don't think we have to worry about 1 shot kills so much if lasers are DOT.

Edited by ManDaisy, 16 February 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

To be true...at the very beginning of my battletech (about 18 years ago) i thought that the sunglow typ 2 of the Thunderbolt is a one shoot killer. Can you imagin how disapointed i was when i saw that it deal only 8 points of damage...
to have perks and quirks for weapons would be nice (for example a longer beam duration or higher energy output creating)

[Opus]

ManDaisy, on 16 February 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

love it or leave it, ac 20 will always be the 1 shot kill weapon. Although I don't think we have to worry about 1 shot kills so much if lasers are DOT.

True, but you miss, and it's no longer a one shot wonder, Once any pilot hears that thing light up their going to stay 300 meters from you, keep you away from your max damage range...

[SilentObserver]

Dr.Killinger, on 16 February 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Hey guys

I can't help but feel that one-shot kills have no place in Mechwarrior. Battletech weapons such as the Arrow IV and Long Tom arevery powerful, but when you're killed in one shot, not knowing where your death came from, only to respawn and have it happen again, is very frustrating.

Hopefully there won't be respawn. that will save you some frustration.

Dr.Killinger, on 16 February 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Of course, walking into the face of an Atlas with a Jenner is stupid and will result in a swift death, but even the Jenner will last a second or two of sustained fire, it won't suddenly "POOF!", and you're dead from over 1km away.

So, will this game have these weapons of mass destruction? I, for one, hope not. It detracts from the feeling of driving a huge armoured death machine.

For this same reason, air strikes and artillery worry me. We probably won't see it coming, and next thing an entire lance is dead. I guess everyone will just spread out to reduce casualties, but losing 2 guys every game to an invisible foe within the first few seconds will be very, very irritating.

I don't think artillery or airstrikes will have enough punch to one shot a mech unless its already heavily damaged. In which case them's the breaks.

[Aegis Kleais]

Dr.Killinger, on 16 February 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Hey guys

I can't help but feel that one-shot kills have no place in Mechwarrior. Battletech weapons such as the Arrow IV and Long Tom arevery powerful, but when you're killed in one shot, not knowing where your death came from, only to respawn and have it happen again, is very frustrating.

Of course, walking into the face of an Atlas with a Jenner is stupid and will result in a swift death, but even the Jenner will last a second or two of sustained fire, it won't suddenly "POOF!", and you're dead from over 1km away.

So, will this game have these weapons of mass destruction? I, for one, hope not. It detracts from the feeling of driving a huge armoured death machine.

For this same reason, air strikes and artillery worry me. We probably won't see it coming, and next thing an entire lance is dead. I guess everyone will just spread out to reduce casualties, but losing 2 guys every game to an invisible foe within the first few seconds will be very, very irritating.

I agree. In the VERY VERY VERY rare chance you got a headshot that cracked the cockpit AND hit the pilot, sure, 1 shot kill. But it needs to be the EPITOME of rare. Even more rare than reactors going critical.

RARE!!!

[Felix Dante]

Mech's are supposed to be TOUGH.
I say down with One-Shot kills...however they occur.

I also think an "Airstrike" might be too powerful or overused (or abused).
Mechs should be too manuverable to get hit often by such things.

However, I can see it being used to flush enemies from a particularly (good) hiding place.
But other than that...

[TheRulesLawyer]

SilentObserver, on 16 February 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Hopefully there won't be respawn. that will save you some frustration.

Meh. It'll make for a very stale game if there isn't IMHO.

[Alexander Becker]

TheRulesLawyer, on 16 February 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Meh. It'll make for a very stale game if there isn't IMHO.

Seeing how they said we will have to repair our mechs after battle, there wont be a respawn (thank god for that).
Respawning in a mechwarrior game seems like a pretty bad game play mechanic.

[nubnub]

Alexander Becker, on 16 February 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Seeing how they said we will have to repair our mechs after battle, there wont be a respawn (thank god for that).
Respawning in a mechwarrior game seems like a pretty bad game play mechanic.

It's an exceptionally good game play mechanic which *most* games these days use, otherwise you have to wait... and wait... and wait... I remember MW4 games going for 45min+ - imagine dying in the first 5 and then waiting at least 40min before playing again. I don't know how the devs will do this - possibly owning multiple mechs so if one is *incapacitated* in a match then you can leave and have fun elsewhere.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Alexander Becker, on 16 February 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Seeing how they said we will have to repair our mechs after battle, there wont be a respawn (thank god for that).
Respawning in a mechwarrior game seems like a pretty bad game play mechanic.

That doesn't exclude respawn. You could use another mech in your stable for example if you want to be very strict to what they've said. Or it could just mean you increase the repair cost each time you die if you interpret it a little liberally.

I'd argue the opposite, that no-spawn is bad mechanic. It leads to lots of downtime and makes it hard to keep a group of friends together if the matches are as long as suggested. In a sub-5 minute match I could just shrug and say fine, but longer matches... ugh. I mean do people actually think sitting around an waiting is *fun*? More realistic- maybe. You can bring in reinforcements in a way that makes sense too. I just get that many people here are all like "I am the god of mechwarrior. All others should just learn to play and suffer in pain and torment for their failure." Its not really a helpful attitude for making a popular game.

[MaddMaxx]

Game Modes. Some with and some without re-spawn. Want to play one or the other, click the appropriate button. Stating why you would click A versus B matters not really.

We even know for a fact that MWO has at least 2 game modes so far. Yeehaaa. Click A or Click B. Hopefully one of them will provide you what you seek.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 17 February 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Alexander Becker]

TheRulesLawyer, on 17 February 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

That doesn't exclude respawn. You could use another mech in your stable for example if you want to be very strict to what they've said. Or it could just mean you increase the repair cost each time you die if you interpret it a little liberally.

I'd argue the opposite, that no-spawn is bad mechanic. It leads to lots of downtime and makes it hard to keep a group of friends together if the matches are as long as suggested. In a sub-5 minute match I could just shrug and say fine, but longer matches... ugh. I mean do people actually think sitting around an waiting is *fun*? More realistic- maybe. You can bring in reinforcements in a way that makes sense too. I just get that many people here are all like "I am the god of mechwarrior. All others should just learn to play and suffer in pain and torment for their failure." Its not really a helpful attitude for making a popular game.

If respawn would be included how many respawns would people have? Would they be limited to the number of mechs they own?
That would be unfair to the people who only have one or less than others. If respawns are infinite would there be a time limit? If it is an objective battle it would be pretty unfair if the attckers could respawn infinte times untill they captured the objective and won and a time limit I am sure many people are against.

World of tanks seems pretty popular even though it doesn't allow respawns and groups of friends don't complain about it.

Edited by Alexander Becker, 17 February 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[Yeach]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/One-Shot

Quote

A one-shot weapon is one that has only one shot to fire. All short- and long-range missiles can be modified in this way. Rather than being linked to one or more one-ton ammunition bins, a one-shot weapon weighs an extra half-ton to represent the round inside it. One-shot missiles are rare, and becoming rarer with the propagation of the 'Mech-sized Rocket Launcher.

I'll agree with the OP saying that they should not have a place in Mechwarrior (and they haven't so far).

Any TT players ever use mechs that have OS SRMs or OS LRMs?

[SilentObserver]

Yeach, on 17 February 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/One-Shot



I'll agree with the OP saying that they should not have a place in Mechwarrior (and they haven't so far).

Any TT players ever use mechs that have OS SRMs or OS LRMs?

I never understood why anyone would mount OS missile systems. You just lost so much in missing reloads and it still wieghed .5 tons more. Never seen them used in TT

[jbone]

Let's list the weapons capable of one shot kills.

I do not include weapons that roll damage in groups of 5, 3, or 2 (LRMs, ATM/HE, & SRMs)

This list is compiled on anything that can in a single hit do 12 or more points of damage. I am probably missing stuff but this covers the basics. (9 for head armor and 3 Internal)

AC/20 (You can include Hypervelocity, Ultra, and non cluster LB-X)
Gauss Rifle
Heavy Gauss
Heavy Large Laser
Clan ER PPC
Heavy PPC
IS ER PPC with capacitor (including non ER version as well if it has a capacitor)
Bombast Laser
Binary (Blazer) Laser
LRM Thunderbolt 15 & 20
Long Tom Using a "Copperhead" round
If you believe Stackpole, jump jets (I am Jade Falcon bs)
A hatchet on any mech 65 tons and heavier (35 tons and Heavier with TSM)
A punch on any mech with TSM that is 60 tons or more (Even an atlas can't one shot the head of a max armor mech with a single punch)
A kick from any mech 60 tons or heaver that somehow managed to get to a level 1 hex wit the target being on a level 0

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Nice list jbone, which leaves us in this time frame with just the AC20 and Gauss Rifle. Alternatively perhaps the OP was referring to Alpha strikes. If you look at the CT rather than the head there are very few mechs which can do that by taking out all armour and IS so it would depend on how/if they impliment crits. The obvious mech for doing such damage is the Awesome, which isn't in yet. Mind you if you cripple a mech on the first salvo, you have a fair chance of killing it on the second. All mechs shown so far have ammo, so the obvious would be to go for the appropriate side torso and hope for an ammo explosion. If CASE is not implimented then I think that this is how most mechs will go in game. As usual much depends on what we are allowed to do in the mechlab.

[Strum Wealh]

To throw in a couple of c-bills:

I disagree with the OP, in that I think that there is a place for "Potential One-Hit KO/Kill (POHK) weapons" (a title to distinguish from actual "One-Shot weapons", which also have a place).

They are typically the "main weapon" that lighter 'Mechs like the Hollander and Panther and Shadow Cat and vehicles like the Hetzer and Yellow Jacket are built around.

Larger 'Mechs like the Thunder Hawk and Awesome and Supernova and ANH-1E (quad-PPC Annihilator), and vehicles like the Schrek and Alacorn, tend to pack them in multiples (usually sets of three), usually for fire-support roles.
Bring hit by an alpha-strike or volley-fire from any one of those 'Mechs or vehicles can and should cause substantial damage to heavier 'Mechs and vehicles, and have a good chance of outright dismembering or destroying lighter 'Mechs and vehicles - I wouldn't want to be in a Jenner having to face down a Thunder Hawk or an ANH-1E (or anything with comparable armament) with a clear line-of-sight down a long street.

They also serve as "headhunter" weapons (typically the source of their POHK capability).
I vaguely remember there being a story where one force defeated another and the commander(?) of the victorious force would go to the disabled, defeated 'Mechs and fire a Gauss slug(?) into each cockpit, execution-style (evidently, the psychological effect was deemed more important than the salvaging of said 'Mechs).

Your thoughts?