72 replies to this topic

[Baphomech]

If truly given the opportunity, would you embrace the Clan way of life, even if it meant living amongst the lower castes?

[Tifalia]

No. That is pretty much asking if anyone would lay down their weapons and live in a Nazi society had they won the second world war. Too many people sacrificed their lives for others to merely surrender to tyranical rulers who treat their subordinates like (literal) second-rate citizens.

I like the Clans and their society, I really do, but never understood how, upon reading so many posts (here and elsewhere) that people say they would jump at the chance to live under Clan rule (of their 'favourite Clan' mostly) - how so many people forget that the Clans think very little and treat badly the freeborns of their society... why then, do people so very much want to live under rule like that? To be shouted at, ordered around, beaten to a bloody pulp - and never have the rights or priveleges they do in whatever society they live in now? (I am talking Inner Sphere for the record, not 2012)

When I fight the Clans as I have in the past, it will be with heat sinks spiking and guns blazing until either every last trashborn before me on the battlefield is dead - or I am.

[SilentObserver]

Tifalia, on 16 February 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

No. That is pretty much asking if anyone would lay down their weapons and live in a Nazi society had they won the second world war. Too many people sacrificed their lives for others to merely surrender to tyranical rulers who treat their subordinates like (literal) second-rate citizens.

I like the Clans and their society, I really do, but never understood how, upon reading so many posts (here and elsewhere) that people say they would jump at the chance to live under Clan rule (of their 'favourite Clan' mostly) - how so many people forget that the Clans think very little and treat badly the freeborns of their society... why then, do people so very much want to live under rule like that? To be shouted at, ordered around, beaten to a bloody pulp - and never have the rights or priveleges they do in whatever society they live in now? (I am talking Inner Sphere for the record, not 2012)

When I fight the Clans as I have in the past, it will be with heat sinks spiking and guns blazing until either every last trashborn before me on the battlefield is dead - or I am.

That's because most envision themselves as being part of the warrior caste. Who doesn't want to be king of the castle.

[Gaius Kerensky]

@ Tifalia,

very well challenge accepted, how do you choose to face your end ? Augmented or Un-augmented ?

Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky 9th Wolf Guard (commanding)

[SilentObserver]

Gaius Kerensky, on 16 February 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

@ Tifalia,

very well challenge accepted, how do you choose to face your end ? Augmented or Un-augmented ?

Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky 9th Wolf Guard (commanding)

Case in point

[Gaius Kerensky]

Through Gameplay (tabletop and Gencon Tournaments) I earned my Bloodname and Rank so I would think I have already embraced the way of my clan and the way of the warrior.....quiaff ?

[Tifalia]

Gaius Kerensky, on 16 February 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

@ Tifalia,

very well challenge accepted, how do you choose to face your end ? Augmented or Un-augmented ?

Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky 9th Wolf Guard (commanding)

I do not believe that I ever formally issued a challenge. Merely voicing my own thoughts on the matter at hand. I see that you assume that I am going to immediately lose in any fight... How very Clan of you!

However, if it is a battle you want, then I shall satiate your bloodlust, as I never back down when challenged.
That being the case, as the challenger, you have the right to choose the location of the battle and what you (hope) to win.

But please, if we are going to do this, then, let us keep this civilised. There is no need for name calling or other personal remark just because we both are on different sides of the border - quiaff?

Edited by Tifalia, 16 February 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[Gaius Kerensky]

Bargained well and done.

[Tifalia]

I am curious however, Star Colonel, as to what I might have said that has made you feel the need for a trial? And to what did I say that you seem to have taken offense at? If we are going to fight, then let it be for all the right reasons and not out of pettiness, agreed?

However upon reading back, I realise I was in error - as you are the challenger and I am the defender, then I get to choose where we will fight. So I choose a world which you should know well - Thun.
As for what I have at my disposal? Well, it certainly does not come close to matching what the Wolf Guards have, nevertheless, I have my trusted CRB - 27b Crab.

[Kenyon Burguess]

hmmm...embrace slavery you say? NTY!

[Fury1]

It is the closed minded line of thought and treatment of the lesser that will cause a Clan to fail.

[Gaius Kerensky]

When I fight the Clans as I have in the past, it will be with heat sinks spiking and guns blazing until either every last trashborn before me on the battlefield is dead - or I am.
When I fight the Clans as I have in the past, it will be with heat sinks spiking and guns blazing until either every last trashborn before me on the battlefield is dead - or I am.

are these NOT your words ?

and as you have chosen the venue for the challenge then it is my right to determine the manner in which it is fought... and I will bring just mysellf, and 1 mech, I seem to remember we captured an Intact Raven around here somewhere..... I do not thing it wise to waste good resources on a singular challenge...

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Gaius Kerensky, on 17 February 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

When I fight the Clans as I have in the past, it will be with heat sinks spiking and guns blazing until either every last trashborn before me on the battlefield is dead - or I am.
When I fight the Clans as I have in the past, it will be with heat sinks spiking and guns blazing until either every last trashborn before me on the battlefield is dead - or I am.

but this is a video game... >.>
<.<
your character doesn't die until you delete your account - unless of course your willing to delete your account right after you experience your first in-game 'death'.

as for living in clan society, the whole fiction was clearly written from the perspective of players being the warriors. In fact its written to this specification so much, that all other castes lack any sort of meaningful background/personality, all seemingly exist to keep the warriors going. Best seen in the Mechwarrior RPG book - there are roughly 10 different life paths for the IS....and only one for clan. Yeah sure you could be a different kind of soldier through the clan path, but its always 'clan trueborn' as if other castes arent worthy to be RP'ed or meaningful :|

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 17 February 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[CoffiNail]

... Umm Go look at your books again perhaps?

MW 2nd ed
- Clan Primary Warrior
- Clan Secondary Warrior
- Clan Elemental
- Clan pilot

MW 2nd ed companion
- Crusader Elemental
- Crusader Mechwarrior
- Dropship/jumpship pilot
- Merchant Caste
- Scientist Caste
- Technician Caste

MW 3rd
- Discragced Elemental

Mw 3rd MW guide to the Clans
- Naval Pilot
- Clan Tanker
- Crusader Elemental
- Disgraced Warrior
- Reservist Trader (CDS)
- Protomech Warrior
- Scientist Ambassador
- Seeker MechWarrior

Also a Cover Ops book with a Clan member of the Watch.

Yes, a lot of these are Warrior Caste, but in a game which is about warriors, how often are you going to play that tech or trader of the IS? Anytime your group goes in to combat you get to sit on the sidelines... not very fun.

You can easily play any caste if you so wanted though, only limitation is your mind.

[GuntherK]

The clan clone troopers can get my freedom from my cold dead hands.
Until then, all this freebirth has to say to them about their decayed barbaric and backwater society is... "Come Get Some" ...

[CoffiNail]

GuntherK, on 17 February 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

about their decayed barbaric and backwater society

HAHAHAHA sorry this is just funny.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

CoffiNail, on 17 February 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

... Umm Go look at your books again perhaps?

Yes, a lot of these are Warrior Caste, but in a game which is about warriors, how often are you going to play that tech or trader of the IS? Anytime your group goes in to combat you get to sit on the sidelines... not very fun.

MW 2nd ed - 1991
-warrior
-warrior
-warrior
-warrior
Note: no other castes

MW 2nd ed companion ~1991
-warrior
-warrior
- Dropship/jumpship pilot
- Merchant Caste
- Scientist Caste
- Technician Caste

Note: I’ll admit, I did not know of this ---^

MW 3^rd - 1999
- warrior

Mw 3rd MW guide to the Clans - 2001
- warrior
- warrior
- warrior
- Disgraced Warrior
- Reservist Trader (CDS)
- Protomech Warrior
- Scientist Ambassador
- Seeker MechWarrior

Notes: again, you’re correct.

However, most of this is locked up in supplements that many people (myself included) either didn’t know existed or would not have purchased for w/e reason. I’m not sure how A Time of War handles this stuff as the current edition, but the version I bought was the Classic Btech RPG book from 2007 and all it had was clan trueborns being the only ‘special’ clan life path.
Also, if techs and traders are sitting on the sidelines during combat then your GM is doing it wrong. Techs play a vital role in combat as a support caster, and traders can use negotiation/bribery or acquire very good equipment for your party. Also, in a game called battletech, if you made a trader with 0 combat skills, well c’mon man ‘battle’ is in the title (or ‘warrior’ in ‘Mechwarrior’ if you prefer ) you are willingly choosing to sit on the sidelines when the guns start blazing.

Also how many trueborn warriors could run a bypass on a door? jam enemy communications outside of their mech? fix their elemental armor? a trueborn RP'ed correctly only knows how to do one thing: fight, and in an RP this can be a liability if the combat situation requires more than fighting.

so if a group is willing to play OOP editions of a game, instead of the current ed; then by all means go play these versions with the clan stuff in them.

CoffiNail, on 17 February 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

You can easily play any caste if you so wanted though, only limitation is your mind.

but it's a little nicer when the game designers have mechanics/skills/stats to demonstrates what makes said character an example of that class or role. Character gen is long enough without having to go through with the GM and kitbash skills etc to make a clan player not-warrior.

second point was that the writing as well for the other castes is generally weaker than IS - just by looking at life path choices alone. A clan trader is just that, a clan trader; a Drac merchant? he may be rolling with the Yakuza, or a double agent, or pissed off some nobility or crime syndicate - see? so much flavor!

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 17 February 2012 - 08:11 AM.

[Fatalis]

CoffiNail, on 17 February 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

You can easily play any caste if you so wanted though, only limitation is your mind.

Completely agree on this point. Sure not all the other castes are fully RP'd out but there is enough info between the game books and the novels that one could easily figure out a way to specifically play a different caste by using those as resources.

[CoffiNail]

You need to realize the archetypers they have are quick fast chars for you to use as a NPC or a new player can use to get in to the game quickly.

*edit*

Plus Aaron, it is a supplement for Battletech the Board Game... which is mostly about wars and such.

The core RPG books are focusing on warriors because 99% of the time that is what the player is going to be. Yeah someone may want to play a tech, but after a few games that Tech is going to go find some piloting skills for a tank, Mech or ASF.. I mean not much fun to be left on the side waiting for a table top game to finish so you can get back to RPing your tech in the game.

Edited by CoffiNail, 17 February 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[guardian wolf]

Yes, and also, freebirths are not, by any means, treated that bad in my Clan (Wolf), which is another reason I liked them. Even during the invasion, when we conquered a planet of the sphere, it was mostly left alone, people kept their same jobs, their same lives, except, now the nobility had to get back to work, and the working class were probably getting fairer, better wages. And also Aaron, I am currently RPing a clan tech, but he tests his creations, and also fights in the field as he is with the Wolf's Dragoons currently. He is also freeborn.

Edited by guardian wolf, 17 February 2012 - 09:16 AM.