136 replies to this topic

[Solis Obscuri]

I'm ok with new ones if they fit within the timescale and don't go off into stupid directions; something like this would be ok:

But with so many existing I.S. designs that have never made it into any video game, plus the coming Clan Invasion, I think Piranha's resources are going to have plenty to keep them busy without coming up with new 'mechs.

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 17 February 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[Petroff Northrup]

i think, for the moment at least, 515 canon mech chassis is a sufficient number to work with, let's try and get some more mechs in fans already enjoy rather than pulling a mektek and making up more for the hell of it.

http://www.sarna.net...ory:BattleMechs

[Opus]

Stone Profit, on 17 February 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

You didn't get "lynched", you got called out, and that's not why you got called out. It was because you presumed to speak for everyone. Quit crying drama queen.

And the helm memory core brought you improvement likes CASE, ultra ac 5, lb 10 x, artemis IV, streak srms, and xl engines and other components. So you're wrong. Again. Lol

well so much for me joking about it, now your just insulting me for whatever reason. I just offered some ideas I have read about, and you seem to want to fight me at ever turn, I find many of your points dead one, you seem very knowledgeable about the game, good luck

[Sporkosophy]

Opus, on 17 February 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Here is a point NOBODY has mentioned; How many Mechs/Ships/and other equipment did Comstar, and Word of Blake keep Hidden. at the Battle of Tukayyid Comstar unleashed an Army NOBODY knew they had. and they kicked the Clans azz btw...

the more the canonized conversation continues, the more it doesn't make sense....

I don't count a draw as kicking their 'azz', although I do hate the clans so very much.

[Stone Profit]

Of course i know what im talking about, i dont make statements without knowing what im talking about or saying that i dont know. I consider it a point of pride.

Edited by Stone Profit, 17 February 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[Stone Profit]

Sporkosophy, on 17 February 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

I don't count a draw as kicking their 'azz', although I do hate the clans so very much.

Actually, on tukayyid comstar defeated 5 out of 7 clans as i recall, and they did it through combined arms, god tactics and causing the clans to over extend their supply lines. There was no room for a draw, clanners dont give up in a draw, they fight until theywin or lose, thats the clan way. And id say defeating a better armed foe on relatively equal ground over the course of maybe almost a month and winning 5/2 to be kicking "azz" lol

Edited by Stone Profit, 18 February 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Insidious Johnson]

Lol... so much canon intensity. I'd bet half the guys here would vigorously debate star wars canon with George Lucas over the stuff past the movies. All of canon... WAS CREATED WORK. These guys are doing a created work here. Canon has also been "retconned" many many times for various genre's. I'd love to see these devs throw in quad heat sinks and retcon them into history... just to let people know canon is the result of the last word and that canon itself is not THE last word.

P.S. in addition to the quad heatsinks and the TT Human Shield armor, think we need a Canon Fodder Human Shield armor as options for mechs.

Edited by Insidious Johnson, 17 February 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[Tannhauser Gate]

The whole, "new mechs" thing is really an oblique path to "give us the ability to create our own mechs in the mechlab" which I despise in all forms. Its not BT. It would be John's min max mech vs Tom's min max mech..thus franken mechs and mechs with no pedigree or basis in story.

Canon only but this includes canonized later additions like the Daemos.

[Chinook]

Stick with canon only. There are more then enough options at launch. Some of the Star League era mechs are interesting and could be fun to see or play. While they are canon I mention that because they aren't common. But I see no reason to add any non canon mechs. While I may be wrong it is probably very safe to assume that they don't fill any new roles as far as play style goes. Also I'm not picking on OP by using the 2mechs he is linked just didn't look up my own non canon ones.

The Black Heart which was linked on page 1 is a relatively fast 70ton mech (73.22kp/h) mounted with a decent range of weapons The two Light Gauss stand out the most and seem to suggest it should be in a fast moving long range support role but the various SRMs and the Er-meds would push it into a shorter range. Which makes the Light Gausses a somewhat odd choice as their minimum range is longer (3hexes instead of 2). Honestly it really reminds me of the Pillager while attempting to fill the spot already filled by the 70ton variants of the Jagermech.

Trying to recreate the Black Heart in heavymetal Pro with the armament listed on sarna. I end up with what looks like a very disappointing mech especially using IS tech. I managed to use all the tonnage and crit space (i.e. I used endo and ferro for all you nay sayers). I end up with roughly 172points of armor or 70% of the maximum armor a 70ton mech can take.

On a nity-picky note the www.sarna.net page isn't even formatted properly for it. The armament sidebar has errors, someone took the time to add the mech into www.sarna.net but didn't take the time to properly format all the little details.

The other mech linked is the Warthog. Using clan level 3 rules in heavymetal Pro I can get 100% of the max armor for a 95ton mech and 12double heatsinks for it's load out. i.e. this mech overheats like a ****, unless you are willing to strip tons of armor off of it to get the required heatsinks.

2x atm 6 6 heat each
2x LBX 20 4 heat each
(generating 20heat at this point)
4x heavy medium lasers 7 heat each (28 heat)

Total weapon heat: 48 heatsinks 12dbl for 24

On another note CSA had the Dire Wolf as did all clans which is an Omni-Mech they could just put a different load out in the omni-pods. Clans also seemed to favor bird like legs for whatever reason and didn't have very "human" forms which from the description of the Warthog it sounds distinctly humanoid and thus not very clan like. The description on sarna address this by saying it was a rediscovered Star League era design. Sounds like a weak answer. Also Star League era designs as a whole tend to have significantly better heat management then the Warthog.

Both of the mektek mechs seem to be designed with the MW4 online play in mind. They both have strong alpha strikes but lack in heatsinks badly.

TL;DR The 2 non canon examples are duplicates for already filled roles and seem to be quite obviously designed for the alpha strike shutdown nature of a large amount of MW4 online play. Keep them out of the game please.

Edit: I can like my own post. /amused

Edited by Chinook, 17 February 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[Jeager51]

The ugly truth is there will be non-cannon mechs in game. Any custom version of an existing mech a player makes that is not in one of the TT source books is Non-cannon. Especaily in 3049, when custimization of a mech was withheld for the most celebrated pilots, or the most dire circumstances. I.E. "We need a running mech, so use the parts from those 2 to fix that one."
That is just my 2 cents.

[Omigir]

I am not going to like.. I did not expect this to make it 6 pages. : \

[Name140704]

Omigir, on 17 February 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

Once agian I see the silent lurking BTU fans are saying no, but not allot of reason why. Hmmzors

I voted no. Battletech has enough 'mechs, which people already know, and some are quite fond of. It's been fine enough for me for 25 years, and I see no reason to make another clicky-tech nightmare of changed designer name 'mechs and pathetic story lines trying to explain them in.

[Variable]

Man.. I would take an Imp or Highlander and let y'all have the Atlas's all day long!

[Chinook]

Variable, on 17 February 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Man.. I would take an Imp or Highlander and let y'all have the Atlas's all day long!

You would take a highlander? Honestly I can't see the draw of that mech. It looks cool but unless you are looking at variants or the clan IIC model. That loadout :s


Edit: Also both the Imp and Highlander are canon. They don't have the Apocryphal tag on Sarna.net and they both appear in original FASA TROs. Since thread is about canon/non-canon.

Edited by Chinook, 17 February 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[Wyzak]

Firstly I should say that I want as many of the canon mechs introduced as possible, and if they are introduced in a timeline that follows canon that is a bonus. But I voted maybe on this poll because I want the designers to have the freedom to introduce a mech if they need for certain missions. For example, the concept of Agromechs is canonical to the universe but the designs are not... not sure if any mission will ever need an agromech presence.

Also some historical notes: Wolf Trap is a Kuritan design released sometime before the Clan invasion as a foil to the Wolfhound, so there are some Mechs introduced after 3028.

I was not aware that the mech designs in MW4 were not canon; I assumed they had been from books I have not read yet. Uziel is one of my favorite medium mechs. It has achieved canon I think through the depth of involvement in the MW4 and mercs plotlines. However, the visual design of the Uziel was probably "borrowed" from the Liao Blue Heron - I think that is the name.

Mostly I want the designers to most effectively use whatever money they can reap to advance the Battletech community so a solid game with lots of canon designs is a must; I am willing to forego a lot of little details that people keep thinking up for us to achieve that. Even and especially agromechs.

[Brakkyn]

Absolutely, positively, without a doubt, NO non-canon 'Mechs in MechWarrior Online. That's my vote.

Canon 'Mechs are made by the people who create canon as part of their job. Some dude such as myself who likes to make his own designs doesn't need every crazy configuration he built canonized and added into a canon game.

BattleMechs like the Deimos, created by an outside, independent designer, are not canon...except that design was actually canonized. Now it is canon. Now it has a place. Before, it did not. The same goes for every other design.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Wyzak, on 18 February 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Firstly I should say that I want as many of the canon mechs introduced as possible, and if they are introduced in a timeline that follows canon that is a bonus. But I voted maybe on this poll because I want the designers to have the freedom to introduce a mech if they need for certain missions. For example, the concept of Agromechs is canonical to the universe but the designs are not... not sure if any mission will ever need an agromech presence.

Also some historical notes: Wolf Trap is a Kuritan design released sometime before the Clan invasion as a foil to the Wolfhound, so there are some Mechs introduced after 3028.

I was not aware that the mech designs in MW4 were not canon; I assumed they had been from books I have not read yet. Uziel is one of my favorite medium mechs. It has achieved canon I think through the depth of involvement in the MW4 and mercs plotlines. However, the visual design of the Uziel was probably "borrowed" from the Liao Blue Heron - I think that is the name.

Mostly I want the designers to most effectively use whatever money they can reap to advance the Battletech community so a solid game with lots of canon designs is a must; I am willing to forego a lot of little details that people keep thinking up for us to achieve that. Even and especially agromechs.

I'm actually going to go out on a limb and suggest that the MW4 mechs were intended for canonization from either the start, or mid development. MW4 was debuted in very late 2000, knocking on the door of 2001. TRO3067, where the 'MW4' mechs are mostly located, was released in 2002. Realistically, we're talking about a year of writing, development, playtesting, art production, and the very very long road to the printer. That just doesn't read for me. I find it more likely that they started TRO3067 earlier, and the MW4 mechs were meant to be included from the start, or nearly the start.

[Xake]

[EDMW]CSN, on 17 February 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Wrong I always wanted the see the love child between the Atlas and Urbie. Aka the IMP

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .... priceless.

[Razur]

It's an online game, so you have to worry about balance in order to keep the customers happy. Not that I expect it to actually BE balanced, I'm sure something will tip the scales and one sort of mech will be fielded far more often than others because it produces wins (hard to fault people for doing that) but there are easily enough designs out there that nothing non-canon need be introduced. Might they do it just to hook some people? sure. Do I think people would stop playing due to non canon mechs being introduced.... I ono... battletech players on average are an older crowd, a different kind of gamer. Alot of them MIGHT actually just quit playing if they thought the "spirit" of the game were being butchered for profit. Battletech players are the star wars and star trek fans of the gaming world. They like things to mesh with their unrealistic totally illogical world ya know.

[Razur]

Jeager51, on 17 February 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

The ugly truth is there will be non-cannon mechs in game. Any custom version of an existing mech a player makes that is not in one of the TT source books is Non-cannon. Especaily in 3049, when custimization of a mech was withheld for the most celebrated pilots, or the most dire circumstances. I.E. "We need a running mech, so use the parts from those 2 to fix that one."
That is just my 2 cents.

Although, I have to say he basically makes the entire point right here. If you can customize your mech.... and ALL players can customize their mechs.... game isn't canon AT ALL.

Not to mention, the reason you can't customize every mech you field in battletech is because it's the one aspect of battletech that IS realistic. If you could place an entirely new gun on half the tanks rolling around the middle east on a whim well..... then it would make sense that any mech, which is just a big walking tank that rolls of an assembly line same as weapons do in the real world, could easily be customized on a whim and completely retrofitted at the drop of a hat.

*shrug*

MW:O will be anything but canon.

Edited by Razur, 18 February 2012 - 03:50 AM.