50 replies to this topic

[Murphy7]

Hello,

First I apologize, I am sure in my bones this has been discussed many times, but what wheat I can pull from the chaff in the search has only served to confuse me a bit.

*Background* - I am longtime player of the tabletop game, dating back to when the box set had a Warhammer on the cover, and the 14 mech designs that came with the small rulebook were all later to become the "Unseen", along with a few other designs sharing artwork from Macross. Hell, I was never sure if my ire was more appropriately aimed at Harmony Gold or Palladium games. *enough of that*

What is the current status of the artwork / likeness rights to mechs amongst the Unseen? Has that been resolved to a point where they can appear in this game? If not, is there some way they could be allowed into Mechwarrior Online, or is that too thorny a licensing issue to address?

Can the designs and model names be used, if new artwork / likenesses were in place?

For example: A two legged 20 tonner with a phallic laser mount and more speed than sense that is called a Locust but looks more boxy like a Aztec mounted on Rollie Pollie Ollie legs might be an eyesore, but I think I could I live with it.

Maybe it is easier to answer with specific chassis in mind. What is the status of:

Wolverine (55 ton)
Warhammer (70 ton)
Valkyrie (30 ton) - I recall this from one of the Mechwarrior roleplaying game books, being a Davion design that had more than a passing resemblence to the Wasp (20 ton)

Any and all assistance in clearing this up would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

-Murphy7

[Dragon Lady]

Unfortunately, anything Macross related is still in legal Hell thanks to the efforts of Harmony Gold. Not only the images of 'Mechs acquired legally from the original Japanese artists, but the whole Macross anime franchise as a whole.

So not only can't we get our Warhammers, Marauders, Riflemens, and others, but we can't import Macross 7, Macross Frontier, and all the other Macross anime.

We do have the reseen 'Mechs, but for a lot of us, the "new" designs are just ugly compared to the originals.

[Hollister]

Dragon Lady, on 06 June 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Unfortunately, anything Macross related is still in legal Hell thanks to the efforts of Harmony Gold. Not only the images of 'Mechs acquired legally from the original Japanese artists, but the whole Macross anime franchise as a whole.

So not only can't we get our Warhammers, Marauders, Riflemens, and others, but we can't import Macross 7, Macross Frontier, and all the other Macross anime.

We do have the reseen 'Mechs, but for a lot of us, the "new" designs are just ugly compared to the originals.

Last i heard the Japanese supreme court ruled that Harmony Gold doesnt own anything. They just have north american distribution rights. the reason behind this is that Tatsunoko sold rights to Harmony Gold, they did not have the right to sell these rights in the first place so Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold were both slaped in the face with that. Big West / Studio Nue own the designs of the mechs/ characters ect.

[Redshift2k5]

There was a post recently citing FASA had again lost the Reseen they had formerly regained, lemme see if I can dig it up

[AC]

And the drama continues....

[Murphy7]

Thank you all for your replies so far.

Sadly, it seems the outlook is not great.

[Kobold]

Speaking as someone who only got into the game around the time the CCG came out, I have never been particularly attached to the unseen. There are scores of other great mechs out there to use.

[Randalf Yorgen]

murph, there is an old warhammer in the video trailers. it's getting spanked by an atlas but it's def an old style

[Kobold]

And it was definitely subject to a cease and desist letter.

[Redshift2k5]

Randalf Yorgen, on 06 June 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

murph, there is an old warhammer in the video trailers. it's getting spanked by an atlas but it's def an old style

That trailer is not actually for MWO, it's for the abandoned predecessor project; also i think it predates the more recent news that FASA against lost the rights to the reseen. (still can't find the link, someone else will have to provide the link to the statement if you need further clarification)

[Murphy7]

I recall the trailer with the Atlas and Warhammer, and saw the relationship in the Dev Blog 0.

I will freely admit it kind of had my hopes up.

[DireWolf307]

Hollister, on 06 June 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Last i heard the Japanese supreme court ruled that Harmony Gold doesnt own anything. They just have north american distribution rights. the reason behind this is that Tatsunoko sold rights to Harmony Gold, they did not have the right to sell these rights in the first place so Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold were both slaped in the face with that. Big West / Studio Nue own the designs of the mechs/ characters ect.

This is true, but American courts have upheald Ho-money n' Gold's rights to lord over the designs for some unknown reason, because apparently American courts don't care about Japanese copyrights (what are we, China?). I believe the technicality is that Ho-money 'n Gold bought the rights from Tatsunoko slightly before FASA bought the rights from Big West/Studio Nue, so even though Tatsunoko had no rights to sell the designs to Ho-money 'n Gold, HG introduced them to the US before FASA did, and so in American eyes, have more legal rights to designs they had no right to own in the first place. It's an absolutely screwed up situation, and because Ho-money 'n Gold has nothing better to do than pathetic attempts at cash-grabs (because lord knows they can't do anything worthwhile on their own), the only one who loses is all of us, the fans.

What I don't know is what's going on with the Dougram/Crusher Joe designs (Battlemaster, Goliath, Wolverine, etc.).

[Exploding Boy]

TL;DR Version:

[DireWolf307]

Exploding Boy, on 06 June 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

TL;DR Version:

The really fun part is I'm both a Battletech fan AND a Macross fan, so I get it both ways by HG with no lube.

What's really infuriating is that instead of trying to make things work out so that the fan benefits, HG just cease-and-desists everyone and takes them to court, and refuses to do anything else. It's rediculous.

[BadgerWI]

I know right? It would almost be bearable if they made robotech movie or came out with a new show or rented the rights to FASA but they do nothing... That is very irritating

[Vashts1985]

i wonder whats actually making money at this point?

robotech/macross or battletech....

*looks at harmony gold*

[Carl Wrede]

Kobold, on 06 June 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Speaking as someone who only got into the game around the time the CCG came out, I have never been particularly attached to the unseen. There are scores of other great mechs out there to use.

I dont think you can really understand the (sentimental) attachment we old BT players have towards many of the "unseen". For us they are THE iconic representation of BT and that will never go away.

That is also why many of us have such a hard time to accept any redesign of them, it will just not be the same..

[DireWolf307]

Vashts1985, on 06 June 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

i wonder whats actually making money at this point?

robotech/macross or battletech....

*looks at harmony gold*

Blasphemy! Macross has no more to do with Rowboattech than Battletech does, and it is very profitable in Japan.

However, your point is correct. Ho-money 'n Gold has been nothing but a failure for some time now.

[Xantars]

someone with deep pockets just needs to buy HG anyone friends with bill gates maybe he could help lol

[Carl Wrede]

I wonder if we could get a collection going on "Kickstart" or something? SAVE THE UNSEENS!