66 replies to this topic

[Lima Zulu]

Well, people discuss clans realisation alot since forum was opened, but I've mostly seen same ideas and same concerns Let's resume.

Idea One: Clans gonna be NPC faction.
Concerns:
1) Way too many people want to play Clans. It's obvious.
2) AI will never compete players, even with overpowered mechs.
3) AI is quite a work for developers.

Idea Two: Clans gonna be playable faction.
Concerns:
1) Clans gonna be overpowered because:
- Every newbie in clan mech will be stronger than seasoned IS player.
- Noone would play IS house, if they will be able to play Clans, using superior Clan technologies etc.
- If Clans will be one faction, it will have more players than any Great House. Or maybe more than all of them.
2) If Clans will be multiple factions, each of them will have less players than Great Houses.
3) By canon, clans not gonna use merc corps, which are backbone of global warfare.
4) How could faction or merc corps players join Clans? It will be quite weird this way.

So, I have an idea of two parts.

Someone of you guys played WoW I believe. Someone even played enough to know what a "Heroic Class" means. For someone, who completely out of it, I'll explain.

Heroic Class - it's a character you can create after getting some quite high level, around 70-80% of maximum. It's created with high enough level and some good equipment, so it can compete other classes. But while in WoW your Heroic Class character belongs the same faction as your main character does, it could be your own Clanner here in MWO.
So, what's a profit:
- People who want play clans have a chance to play it.
- Clans are real people not any kind of AI, and there is no need to make this AI at all.
- Due only highlevels are able to create clan characters, we're not gonna be overwhelmed by them.
- No problem with transfering IS characters to Clans side - you just don't need anything like this - all clanners will be sort of alt.

There are pro's, but there are contra's too:
- Soon or later all people gonna get high level and make their own clanner, so a chance we will be overwhelmed is still there.
- People will level their IS characters only to get Clanner and then will abandon it completely.

Here comes B part - limitation.
Basically, it means that you'll not be able to play your clanner all the time. Let's say it will be one battle as a clanner per day. Or ten per week, no idea. Thus we'll have people still playing IS and having an opportunity to play Clans aswell.

At every else way Clans will work the same as any Great House - ranks, in-faction units, etc. Maybe another currencies - or do Clans need money at all? They not gonna trade with IS, so there is a place for some unique currency system - maybe honor based, for example.

[Outlaw2]

Give good incentives to stay with IS....and don't make clans a clear upgrade (even if their weapons are).

For instance, player units will probably have to start from scratch to be part of a clan in game. That itself will temp people to stay. Have clan mechs cost more, cost more BV, and balance IS versus Clan matches with BV and/or asymmetric team numbers....like 8v5 or 16v10. The clans many smaller units (compared to the larger centralized houses) is a balancing factor itself. They'll have less players per unit, and Im sure there will be A LOT of infighting in the Clan Invasion corridor (and Kerensky cluster??)...remember we are talking about internet players...not real clanners.
Also the clan equivalent of merc corp can simply be called something else.

But don't punish people or make them suffer grind hell to be a clanner.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 24 February 2012 - 03:00 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

Moving to Clan discussion.

[Kaemon]

You could make it very expensive to run clan tech, so you'd have to spend most of your time in IS or merc corp mechs to fund your clan missions. That might get grindy though.

Or you simply limit the number of total clan players allowed, on a first come, first server basis (that's not good either).

Or you limit it to conquest mode only, and we all run around in clan assaults and min/max each other (bleah).

I really don't see a 'good' way to limit Clan access, especially in this age of 'I want it now'.

Ideally it would be a 'heroic' feat to get to Clan-dom, but if you just use in game stats, the hard core players are the only ones that make it.

Edited by Kaemon, 24 February 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[FACEman Peck]

Ahhh... the wonders killing clan members can do for you...

[Mastr]

I have been toying with an idea, in respect to how the clans do not have a merc corps what if the smaller home clans were treated in a similar way to mercs? Basically it is not uncommon for individual trinaries, even stars to be granted a place from a home clan to an invading clan, the Goliath Scorpions had a force of seekers with Clan Steel Viper if I remember correctly and to a lessser extent the harvest trials could serve as an example as well. This would allow player groups to fight under the banner of a larger clan while still retaining their home clan identity, instead of a merc corps group it would be home clan attachment.

I am not sure if I explained that right.

[Blackfire1]

For every Clan player there will be an FRR player. Because people love PvP.

[renegade mitchell]

Lima Zulu, on 24 February 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Well, people discuss clans realisation alot since forum was opened, but I've mostly seen same ideas and same concerns Let's resume.

Idea One: Clans gonna be NPC faction.
Concerns:
1) Way too many people want to play Clans. It's obvious.
2) AI will never compete players, even with overpowered mechs.
3) AI is quite a work for developers.

Idea Two: Clans gonna be playable faction.
Concerns:
1) Clans gonna be overpowered because:
- Every newbie in clan mech will be stronger than seasoned IS player.
- Noone would play IS house, if they will be able to play Clans, using superior Clan technologies etc.
- If Clans will be one faction, it will have more players than any Great House. Or maybe more than all of them.
2) If Clans will be multiple factions, each of them will have less players than Great Houses.
3) By canon, clans not gonna use merc corps, which are backbone of global warfare.
4) How could faction or merc corps players join Clans? It will be quite weird this way.

So, I have an idea of two parts.

Someone of you guys played WoW I believe. Someone even played enough to know what a "Heroic Class" means. For someone, who completely out of it, I'll explain.

Heroic Class - it's a character you can create after getting some quite high level, around 70-80% of maximum. It's created with high enough level and some good equipment, so it can compete other classes. But while in WoW your Heroic Class character belongs the same faction as your main character does, it could be your own Clanner here in MWO.
So, what's a profit:
- People who want play clans have a chance to play it.
- Clans are real people not any kind of AI, and there is no need to make this AI at all.
- Due only highlevels are able to create clan characters, we're not gonna be overwhelmed by them.
- No problem with transfering IS characters to Clans side - you just don't need anything like this - all clanners will be sort of alt.

There are pro's, but there are contra's too:
- Soon or later all people gonna get high level and make their own clanner, so a chance we will be overwhelmed is still there.
- People will level their IS characters only to get Clanner and then will abandon it completely.

Here comes B part - limitation.
Basically, it means that you'll not be able to play your clanner all the time. Let's say it will be one battle as a clanner per day. Or ten per week, no idea. Thus we'll have people still playing IS and having an opportunity to play Clans aswell.

At every else way Clans will work the same as any Great House - ranks, in-faction units, etc. Maybe another currencies - or do Clans need money at all? They not gonna trade with IS, so there is a place for some unique currency system - maybe honor based, for example.

Nice post.

Make clans playable by established clans from previous games, or new clans coming to this game. Make the invading clans run by NPC, and battles given to multiuple pvt clans that have joined a said invading clan. Make it so Lonewolves would need to join a pvt clan in order to become a Clansman in the invading clans. Make it so each Keshik of said pvt clans, can creat BOs on a practice server to conduct ToEs for new recruits. I explained it in this thread, http://mwomercs.com/...ft/page__st__20

Edited by Renegade Mitchell, 24 February 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I assume each Clan will be a separate faction not just "the Clans"?

[renegade mitchell]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 24 February 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I assume each Clan will be a separate faction not just "the Clans"?

Much like we may see with the houses, multiple pvt clans within one invading clan.

Edited by Renegade Mitchell, 24 February 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[Mastr]

Renegade Mitchell, on 24 February 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Much like we may see with the houses, multiple pvt clans within one invading clan.

By "pvt clans" do you mean just any group of players or the actual battletech use of the term clan?

[BlueDog]

The OP raises a lot of great questions, IMO.

I think the clans should be players, not NPCs, and I think they should stick to canon clans only. Trials of Position, starting with The Blooding might help balance things out and keep Clan Mechwarriors the elite warrior caste they're supposed to be.

Edit: And, I don't think clan mechwarriors should be freebirth, you should create a trueborn character from scratch.

Edited by BlueDog, 24 February 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

You could have continued the discussion of another thread which has already broached the subject. Honestly, how many of the same "who is gonna play the Clans" threads do we need? It is like the "what computer will I need" threads in the hardware section.

Use the search function if you think you have got a new topic to chat about first. If there is no similar postings, thread away.

I posted this days ago in another thread, kinda along the lines of what you propose. IMO, NPC Clans will never work well.

Portraying a segment of an invading clan may be a
good answer to the Khan/saKhan issue and involving a WHOLE
clan. Have a GalCom, Cluster, or a Binary/Trinary
Commander (keeping in mind that only Bloodnamed Warriors
are selected to be GalComs) run the local event as part of the
overall invasion campaign as separate and distinct entities.
This would eliminate the need for a whole Clan coordinating
over the entire route of the invasion. That could be done of
course, but there would be no real need until a planetary
league starts. The separate Clan elements could talk together
and coordinate, but there would be no centralized Clan entity,
just sub-units fighting IS dezgra.
 
Soooo, Research the desired Clan and pick a Canon (or reasonably
within Canon) sub-component to portray (not every unit has been
represented in the literature, TRO, or TTG). Since the size of the
opposing Clan will number in groups of five (I would hope), gaming
that way will negate the need for a Khan/saKhan. Each compoinent
could possess, I should think, a loremaster and oathmaster at almost
every level, the position being assumed by a player who is actually
part of an active star. He would fulfill the role in much the same way
a Clan LM/OM would and proceed as if there were higher level entities
(The DEVS!) providing guidance or such.

and this after that later in the same thread:

The remaining members of the NBT-HC group playing the Clan Blood Spirit
had spoken with CSJ about possibly portraying a cluster or galaxy in their group
during the invasion phase of the game. At some point in the game, we would split
off as CBS if possible. My suggestion above is a variation of that idea and more in
tune with the game, I think..

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 24 February 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[Mastr]

I really am just hoping for the devs to come up with a way for us minor clans to be represented and not just the big four. I fully understand we should not be a primary faction but if we could have some way of playing as our individual clan that would be amazing. Perhaps they could just have one faction being "home clans"?

[Gremlich Johns]

Another example of why we should be using something like RP on// - RP off// tags or writing unambiguously

Mastr, on 24 February 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I really am just hoping for the devs to come up with a way for us minor clans to be represented and not just the big four. I fully understand we should not be a primary faction but if we could have some way of playing as our individual clan that would be amazing. Perhaps they could just have one faction being "home clans"?

Here is the point where you seem as if you are a Clansman vice portraying one, better to have written it this way as an unambiguous point of view:

I really am just hoping for the devs to come up with a way for the minor clans to be represented and not just the big four. I fully understand they should not be a primary faction but if we could have some way of playing as our individual clan that would be amazing. Perhaps they could just have one faction being "home clans"?

But back to your point, I agree and I wish that there can be a Homeworlds server where the Homeworlds Clans could "play" without the pesky IS -oriented players eager for Clan tech. (I posted this POV before)

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 24 February 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Mastr]

Gremlich Johns, on 24 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Another example of why we should be using something like RP on// - RP off// tags or writing unambiguously



Here is the point where you seem as if you are a Clansman vice portraying one, better to have written it this way as an unambiguous point of view:

I really am just hoping for the devs to come up with a way for the minor clans to be represented and not just the big four. I fully understand they should not be a primary faction but if we could have some way of playing as our individual clan that would be amazing. Perhaps they could just have one faction being "home clans"?

Not to further derail a post that was kind of derailed from the start but, while I believe I understand what you are saying about not attributing too much of yourself to a factions persona I think you should understand a certain degree of that is inevitable especially in battletech and possibly more so in Mechwarrior. Mechwarrior is almost an anomaly in that it has been played year after year often in leagues way after the games are considered dead, that right there is fanatical devotion and over time we have come to identify with these units, clans, houses we played in on a very personal level and some degree of attachment to those artificial organizations is going to happen.

Saying I am a clansmen on a battletech related forum means I use clan tech and paint my mechs a certain way and I do not think there is any harm in that. If I use that identity to attack someone else and say I am better than them then I think I should be checked for that behavior, but I have not done that.

Here is an example of what I mean, in relation to battletech I clanner, an Ice Hellion to be specific and that is what people here will learn to know. At a football game I am a Giants fan, and I am going to scream for my team, and at work I do not talk about either of these things. It is just based on the setting.

Edited by Mastr, 24 February 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Mate, fair enough. And I meant no disrespect. My point in making this pitch often is because frequently, players who do NOT hold the Clans near and dear do not tend to understand why we "clansmen" do what we do (refer to ourselves as Clansmen in the present tense or recall gaming events with us as our characters using personal pronouns when recounting the event), just as much as any of us who are Clan-oriented do not understand the vociferous nature of their "dislike" for the Clans and unwillingness to understand (frankly, that IS what they do not want to do - understand what makes us tick as "Clansmen"). We tend to be more rational in our explanations of why we prefer Clans over the IS, something the IS does a poor job at expressing in the converse. Better to be unambiguous and I do understand your pointed response.

And your example of the Giants isn't really the same - You do not scream for your team as a Giant, you scream because you are a fan of the Giants.

[Mastr]

I did not take any personal offense, and I do understand your point.

[Thorn Hallis]

I'm pretty sure the development team knows that introducing the Clans as a playable faction will be quite challenging.

A lot of players will jump over once the Clans are available, some because they see themselves as Clanners, some because they want the tech (or some specific mech design), some because of both. But I think there will be enough players staying in the Inner Sphere to keep it populated.
I don't think balancing will be a problem, I trust the developers to come up with a good solution to make Clan vs IS matches fun and enjoyable for both factions.
And as long as the devs allow inter-Clan matches, there wouldn't even be a problem with IS players who don't want to fight the Clans.

[renegade mitchell]

Mastr, on 24 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

By "pvt clans" do you mean just any group of players or the actual battletech use of the term clan?

Player run clan.