66 replies to this topic

[neodym]

I want there to be ATLEST as many clans playable as houses and I want it to be playable from total begining,I had enough of playing Federation to get to Klingons in Star Trek Online,it was so annoying and frustrating,heroic class in wow and clans mw online thats different thing,becose not having playable clans in this game would be like playing wow with only one faction,the aliance

the houses arent much like separate factions their more like different kinds of one faction,the other side is clans,yes,it will be possible to play wow with only aliance races,but it will sucks,it will suck same way like star trek online with its klingons that nobody play becose its unfinished side

this game needs to have playable clans,its essential,I always like clans way more than IS,forcing me to play IS will decrease greatly my enjoyment from game,making it less quality,and believe me ,theres alot people like me that like clans much more

Smoke Jaguars,Jade Falcons,Wolfs,Ghost Bears should be there,I am not sure about the rest,but these four should be there

Edited by neodym, 25 February 2012 - 09:03 AM.

[Lima Zulu]

neodym, on 25 February 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

I want there to be ATLEST as many clans playable as houses and I want it to be playable from total begining,I had enough of playing Federation to get to Klingons in Star Trek Online,it was so annoying and frustrating,

Could you please tell a bit more about how is was relalized in STO? Really curious.

Quote

the houses arent much like separate factions their more like different kinds of one faction,

Really have no idea why do you think so. Fighting each other constantly? Having only half of Houses really fighting clans while other half isn't even touched by invasion? No idea... BT is not about Clans-IS confrontation like World War. Clans invaison is just an episode of BT universe history, not a keynote. And of course clans never had equal number of warriors as all IS had.

=Outlaw=, on 24 February 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

But don't punish people or make them suffer grind hell to be a clanner.

Well... There is still half of year before Clan Invasion at least. And I don't know any MMO where you can't get levelcap for half of year even barely playing. Nolife-grinders got caps in a few first weeks ussualy. So if you gonna play MWO from beginning you'll have more that enough time to get enough exp.

Gremlich Johns, on 24 February 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

You could have continued the discussion of another thread which has already broached the subject. Honestly, how many of the same "who is gonna play the Clans" threads do we need?

Well, I haven't seen anything like my idea before. And that's why I started a new thread and even poll - I'm really interested what people thinks about this idea. I guess I should made a poll like "Do you like this idea - yes or not" probably...

[Nicodemas Pryde]

neodym I understand your point. But the way the game plays out, with one day in real life being one day in game, the clans cannot arrive one whole year before their canonical apperance.

And saying the innersphere houses are all the same and not opposed to each other is like saying the clans themselves are all the same and not opposed to each other. Lets remember that in game, at this point the houses don't even know about the clans, let alone the threat they represent. There is no us and them yet, and even when the clans invade there is no clear cut IS vs Clans. Its more like Kurita, FedCom, and FRR versus the clans. The CC and FWL have no need to worry about the clans. At this point in time its the status quo in the innersphere. Most people are just bracing themselves, and building upto what they would consider the next succession war.

Besides, the devs have their hands full with making sure the houses and mercs system works and is balanced. What do you want, a system that works, and is fun to play from the start, or a system which is half complete and sounds much like the Star Trek online Klingon thing you mentioned. If they add the clans from the beginning they would not have given the clans the time they deserve to fully implement a system that works and does justice to the style of play the clans will want

[Gremlich Johns]

Nicodemas Pryde, on 25 February 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

Besides, the devs have their hands full with making sure the houses and mercs system works and is balanced. What do you want, a system that works, and is fun to play from the start, or a system which is half complete and sounds much like the Star Trek online Klingon thing you mentioned. If they add the clans from the beginning they would not have given the clans the time they deserve to fully implement a system that works and does justice to the style of play the clans will want

Seyla!

[neodym]

Lima Zulu, on 25 February 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

Could you please tell a bit more about how is was relalized in STO? Really curious.


Really have no idea why do you think so. Fighting each other constantly? Having only half of Houses really fighting clans while other half isn't even touched by invasion? No idea... BT is not about Clans-IS confrontation like World War. Clans invaison is just an episode of BT universe history, not a keynote. And of course clans never had equal number of warriors as all IS had.



Well... There is still half of year before Clan Invasion at least. And I don't know any MMO where you can't get levelcap for half of year even barely playing. Nolife-grinders got caps in a few first weeks ussualy. So if you gonna play MWO from beginning you'll have more that enough time to get enough exp.



Well, I haven't seen anything like my idea before. And that's why I started a new thread and even poll - I'm really interested what people thinks about this idea. I guess I should made a poll like "Do you like this idea - yes or not" probably...

the people that made STO relesed the game inclomplete with only one faction,they told us that they gonna finish the second faction,klingons soon,two years passed Klingons are totaly unbalanced unfinished its horrible and they dont give funk,that game is junk,its rotten by the greed of people that think they can squeeze more money from it having less players play it but with not having to spend on developing complete game with second faction,you also have to be lvl 25 to start all over as klingon,thats way long boring grind trust me

your right this game can be without clans,hell this game can be with only one or two houses but then it will be same piece of shmit as STO,this game would be much better with clans,people just want,is that right?! ( yell something you clan lovers )

Edited by neodym, 25 February 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[neodym]

this is what I say

MW:O without clans is like diet coke,a pizza without cheese,like a hamburger without beef,french fries without majo and ketchup,like sex with zombie,like a rave without dance,like having children and not loving them,thats how it is,it CAN be done,but there will be something missing,something you cant replace,something great.

clans and houses,its like day and night

Edited by neodym, 25 February 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Some poeple love shmit. go figure.

The game needs clans, eventually. After they have taken the next year to train up and coordinated invasion planning

[Alan Grant]

neodym, on 25 February 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

the people that made STO relesed the game inclomplete with only one faction,they told us that they gonna finish the second faction,klingons soon,two years passed Klingons are totaly unbalanced unfinished its horrible and they dont give funk,that game is junk,its rotten by the greed of people that think they can squeeze more money from it having less players play it but with not having to spend on developing complete game with second faction,you also have to be lvl 25 to start all over as klingon,thats way long boring grind trust me

Which is why we don't want MWO to be released with anything other than the Great houses completely balanced. Then once we have a playable game based in the 3049 timeframe, the devs can sit back and start making the real decisions which will make the introduction of clans feel more natural and not an after thought or something haphazardly thrown together to milk the clanners, and spheroids. Anything other than that would be a recipe for disaster.

But grinding to a certain level so you can eventually play clans sounds off putting to me. Maybe create a new character which is the same level at your current IS character or something. That way you don't feel cheated if all you really want is to play the clans. The newbies who join the clans fresh would start off lower, the ones who put time into the innersphere waiting for the clans, get a bonus. Maybe half you current level, or something for balances sake. That's I would do, but honestly I'm not a big online player, so I wouldn't know what's really balanced for something this. SWTOR is my first ever MMO, and this would be my second true online gaming experience.

Edited by alan grant, 25 February 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[neodym]

alan grant, on 25 February 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Which is why we don't want MWO to be released with anything other than the Great houses completely balanced. Then once we have a playable game based in the 3049 timeframe, the devs can sit back and start making the real decisions which will make the introduction of clans feel more natural and not an after thought or something haphazardly thrown together to milk the clanners, and spheroids. Anything other than that would be a recipe for disaster.

But grinding to a certain level so you can eventually play clans sounds off putting to me. Maybe create a new character which is the same level at your current IS character or something. That way you don't feel cheated if all you really want is to play the clans. The newbies who join the clans fresh would start off lower, the ones who put time into the innersphere waiting for the clans, get a bonus. Maybe half you current level, or something for balances sake. That's I would do, but honestly I'm not a big online player, so I wouldn't know what's really balanced for something this. SWTOR is my first ever MMO, and this would be my second true online gaming experience.

your right,I dont say I want clans from start of release of this game,*** why my font changed,nevermind,I dont need them to be there from release of game but by having them from start I mean they should be not like this heroic class or whatever,so you grind in faction you dont want to get to them.That grind would kill fun

Edited by neodym, 25 February 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[neodym]

hey,what clans would you like to be in game? I am ghost bear person,and smoke jaguar,jade falcon and wolfs are just classic but some of you like these clans that I never heard before,like cloud cobra so witch one is the must have if the clans will be in MW:O?

Edited by neodym, 25 February 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[CoffiNail]

... MWO is follwing Lore, they have said they intend to mostly stick to lore as it is established and makes their life a lot easier to maintain the lore than to redo it all.

Jade Falcon, Wolf, Ghost Bear and Smoke Jaguar will be in. Possibly they may let some play Steel Vipers but they only garrisoned planets of the other Clans until after IlKhan Ulric Kerensky was elected. Then Steel Vipers become a invading Clan as well as Nova Cat and Diamond Shark became the reserve Clan.

Clans cannot be tossed in at Launch UNLESS the Devs have a 'beta team' who play Clans, rank their characters up to be 'leaders' and then when the actual invasion happens other players can join the Clans factions. But the Clans will not start to invade proper until March 2013. as that corrisponds to March 3050. See I want the Clans to be like the Klingons in STO with the fact you DO need to level to a certain rank to unlock the Clans, the Clan warriors are elite, constantly tested and to have new players who have never ran in a mech before to play the Clans takes away a lot from the universe's fluff. Not only this but the Clans playstyle will differ considerably. This means by having the Clans at launch gives the DEV team extra stuff in addition to all the IS balancing that needs to be done.

So no, for the most Clans as a playabler faction should only be allowed at minimum Janurary 2013. So that players can establish themselves, learn and perfect Clan Honor Dueling known as Zellbrigen and that the DEVs have the time to put it in right, so it does not end up as a incomplete faction like Klingons did in STO.

[Lima Zulu]

neodym, on 25 February 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

like sex with zombie

Mmm... Passive necrophlia...
So all BT before Clan invasion and after 3060 is a fail for you. Got your point...

alan grant, on 25 February 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

But grinding to a certain level so you can eventually play clans sounds off putting to me. Maybe create a new character which is the same level at your current IS character or something. That way you don't feel cheated if all you really want is to play the clans. The newbies who join the clans fresh would start off lower, the ones who put time into the innersphere waiting for the clans, get a bonus. Maybe half you current level, or something for balances sake.

Well, that's a point too.

Quote

That's I would do, but honestly I'm not a big online player, so I wouldn't know what's really balanced for something this

Well, I'd say nobody ever did something like this. There were no-factions-only-guilds systems (Lineage 2, GW), and 2-3 warring factions (WoW, WHO, SWTOR) systems mostly. The only thing with factions and players guilds was only EVE, but those factions didn't do much after all... Noone before haven't introduced one (or four) other factions to 6 presented, completely unbalanced by lore, 1 year after release. The only example of introducing premium class I have - it's DeathKnights in WoW, but they weren't a separate faction.

[IxxxI]

I definitely support the common idea of balancing the Clans population by making Clans' warriors life harder, than their IS counterparts. I would also like to see devoted Clan players instead of newbies rush for advanced Clantech.
What do you say on that:

• Clan character can be created on the same account (maybe once per <some period of time>)
  
• Clan character name should be generated randomly from the built-in pool of names, in order to prevent Bloodnames appropriation and crazy callsigns usage
  
• Clan character can die or get injury in battle (injury should take some time for recovery, 1:1 time scale you said ?)
  
• Clan warriors must pass a Trial of Position to start playing or die if failed (or even fix others' 'Mechs in mechabs )
  
• Clan warriors should follow Zellbrigen codex and should be motivated to achieve something like 'honor points'
  
• Clan warrior should suffer from limited resources of the Clan and should be motivated to save them: i.e. he/she could gain a new OmniMech only in the Trial of Possession (Trial could even happen on IS trash in order to save valuable resources )
  
• Clan warriors should compete with each other (Bloodnames; next Trials of Position; Batchalls)
  
• Clan commander with Bloodname should provide some bonus for the Clan's regiment - forcing Clan players protect their commander (additional airstrike, satellite sweep and so on, not the 'heroic aura of protection')
  
• Some positions like Khan/saKhan maybe even Start Colonel should not be available to players (well, some limits should exist anyway, IMO)
  
• IS warriors should be motivated to kill Clanners (i.e. salvage granted from 'Mechs whose pilots were killed only in case of IS victory over Clan forces)
  
• After one Clan character was killed new one could be generated later (depending on honor gained during 'life' of previous character)

Make life of IS pilot safer, more comfortable and less hardcore - and you will see native players filtration, IS/Clans population should be balanced eventually. From the other side - after all Clan's life difficulties passed - just imagine what a freaking awe and havoc could wreak seasoned Clan Star Captain with Bloodname on the battlefield.

Edited by IxxxI, 25 February 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[BOTA 49]

I'd prefer to see Clans playable. Depending on if they adjust the Clan mechs and weapons to be more in line with the IS mechs, there shouldn't be a balance problem. The downside to this is that you would have more people flocking to the Clans for their "cool" mechs and weaponry (almost like a mass exodus....hmmm.....). Here's what I'd prefer:

-Clan equipment is better overall
-Clan equipment is 3-5x the cost of IS equipment
-Clans can only drop at a ratio of the IS mechs in the drop, ie 3/5 or something (6 Clanners vs 10 IS pilots for example)
-Clans can only salvage Clan equipment (regardless of which side is using it), so your crushed IS mech will stay with you instead of being taken by the Clans
-IS players, however, can salvage Clan equipment, but the IS players get no stat bonuses when piloting a Clan mech, and the cost of a Clan mech for an IS pilot is 5-7x the cost of IS equipment
-Instead of c-bills, the Clan players work with an honor system that promotes Clan gameplay. For example, if you engage more than 1 mech without being provoked, you lose all honor from either of those mechs. If you lose your mech BEFORE any objectives (if present) are completed, you lose honor. If your side loses, you get 0 honor for the round. Make it tough to earn honor points to spend on mechs and customization.

No idea how these would work out, but that's how I always saw something like this going through my mind for the last 12 years (even though I despise the Clans and wish they went with the 3025 route).

Edited by BOTA-49, 25 February 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[daytrader]

I think I have a proposition for middle-ground between being able to operate an OP clan character, and minimal grinding required:

Ideas taken from IxxxI. Permadeath, trials and IS time requirement. The ability to create a clan character should depend on IS playtime. Ex: You can create a clan character for every 20 (active, require point gain to prevent automated grinding) battlefield hours with an IS character. You should be able to stockpile your IS play hours and create a clan character for every 20 active hours you've spent on the battlefield. I think that this 20 hours isn't all that grindy, and if the combat trials are done well and are deadly, then that will work great.

One of the trials should be a non-deadly multiplayer deathmatch that will dictate what clan mech you get to pilot based on end score. Finishing first will give the best heaviest mech, finishing last will give the worst light mech. (good option to charge real money to redo this trial)
*Edit: Or rather, give the first pick on whichever clan mech you'd like to start with, from a sample of randomly chosen ones. With the last person being given the last choice. You should be able to find and use another mech later through some other means, preferably involving multiplayer combat.

Combine that with IS pilots being able to salvage destroyed clan mechs (but with caps on being unable to use any modules/upgrades on them for example) and a deployment ratio would make OP clans feasible.

Edited by daytrader, 25 February 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[Outlaw2]

Lima Zulu, on 25 February 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

Well... There is still half of year before Clan Invasion at least. And I don't know any MMO where you can't get levelcap for half of year even barely playing. Nolife-grinders got caps in a few first weeks ussualy. So if you gonna play MWO from beginning you'll have more that enough time to get enough exp.

Because not everyone will have the game day one, and not everyone plays 20+ hours a week. By requiring players to first grind through IS content to get to Clan content, makes the IS seem as the inferior content. Not good. Many, many gamers are all about progression, and it will create the impression and mindset that being Clan is higher in progression and content tier. In other words, its a higher e-peen status symbol...which means almost everyone will strive to be clan (besides the hardcore IS players). This is NOT an environment you want to create.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 25 February 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[Mastr]

=Outlaw=, on 25 February 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Because not everyone will have the game day one, and not everyone plays 20+ hours a week. By requiring player to first grind through IS content to get to Clan content, makes the IS seem as the inferior content. Not good. Many, many gamers are all about progression, and it will create the impression and mindset that being Clan is higher in progression and content tier. In other words, its a higher e-peen status symbol...which means almost everyone will strive to clan (besides the hardcore IS players).

That is a really good point, and I could definitely see that happening. Something to think about I guess.

[Stripes]

Well - at least we all think what Clans must be ingame Elite. So far, good sir lxxxl have the best, in my honest opinion, suggestion about Clans realisation in game. It is fact, a sad one, but given natural disadvantage of IS vs Clans, they, Clans, will be abused, for tech or mechs - some limitation are in order.
For me, many years ago, Clans have been my introduction to BT in general - famous Aidan Pryde trilogy. And after that, i got my hands on MW2 demo... I think i have enough backbone to try to live like trueborn Clansmen

[Lima Zulu]

IxxxI, on 25 February 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

• Clan character name should be generated randomly from the built-in pool of names, in order to prevent Bloodnames appropriation and crazy callsigns usage
  
• Clan character can die or get injury in battle (injury should take some time for recovery, 1:1 time scale you said ?)
  
• After one Clan character was killed new one could be generated later (depending on honor gained during 'life' of previous character)

Really doubt we'll se something like these... I'm not saying I don't like it, but such kind of hardcore is too much for modern f2p game I believe...

Quote

Clan warriors must pass a Trial of Position to start playing or die if failed (or even fix others' 'Mechs in mechabs )

• Clan warriors should follow Zellbrigen codex and should be motivated to achieve something like 'honor points'
  
• Clan warrior should suffer from limited resources of the Clan and should be motivated to save them: i.e. he/she could gain a new OmniMech only in the Trial of Possession (Trial could even happen on IS trash in order to save valuable resources )
  
• Clan warriors should compete with each other (Bloodnames; next Trials of Position; Batchalls)
  
• Clan commander with Bloodname should provide some bonus for the Clan's regiment - forcing Clan players protect their commander (additional airstrike, satellite sweep and so on, not the 'heroic aura of protection')

Combined with honor currency system instead C-bills it should work just fine, I guess.

Quote

• Some positions like Khan/saKhan maybe even Start Colonel should not be available to players (well, some limits should exist anyway, IMO)
  
• IS warriors should be motivated to kill Clanners (i.e. salvage granted from 'Mechs whose pilots were killed only in case of IS victory over Clan forces)

Make life of IS pilot safer, more comfortable and less hardcore - and you will see native players filtration, IS/Clans population should be balanced eventually. From the other side - after all Clan's life difficulties passed - just imagine what a freaking awe and havoc could wreak seasoned Clan Star Captain with Bloodname on the battlefield.

Sounds quite good and I really hope some of your ideas will be bringed to life, but I'd say, Outlaw made a good notice too:

=Outlaw=, on 25 February 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Many, many gamers are all about progression, and it will create the impression and mindset that being Clan is higher in progression and content tier. In other words, its a higher e-peen status symbol...which means almost everyone will strive to be clan (besides the hardcore IS players). This is NOT an environment you want to create.

Sound like other side of a coin, and it's really not I or anybody else want to achieve with this system.

[Outlaw2]

Lima Zulu, on 25 February 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Sound like other side of a coin, and it's really not I or anybody else want to achieve with this system.

Sorry, but its much more than just another side of a coin...its a huge deal breaker.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 25 February 2012 - 10:19 PM.