16 replies to this topic

[TheBossHammer]

I'm sorry if this has been dealt with already, and I know this is a radical departure from earlier Mechwarrior games, but for balance and realism reasons I'm starting to think that it might be better if getting hit in the side torso or arms would cause your mech to rotate far to one side and have the crosshairs for your weapons to split away from each other, as the mech would do realistically, while getting hit in the legs or center torso should not. I also think that the only hits you can take that would be lethal should be a cored center torso or having both legs cored, while other hits should cause parts of the mech to blow off. (This is completely independent from the thread on whether blowing off the side torso kills the arm, btw.) I know this was visible in the "Mechwarrior 5" trailer that got pulled down in 2009 and I think this was in Mechwarrior 3, but Mech 4 and Mech LL don't have this at all, and in Mech 3 it's not drastic enough to prevent a good pilot from ALWAYS attempting to leg his opposing mech. My thought process is that rewarding players for hitting areas that won't kill the mech will make targeting those areas a much higher priority and raise the skill cap rather significantly. It's more accurate to the lore, if not the TT (maybe it is, I haven't played much of the TT) and it should make the game much more competitive.

What say the rest of you? Am I way the hell off the mark or would this be better for the game?

***CLARIFICATION*** Hitting the cockpit would always be lethal.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 06 March 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[ManDaisy]

blowing things off would be so much a better solution then having damage redirect. I mean if its not there you just miss. Its so much cleaner.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

Say you destroy a side torso's armor, now the skeleton core underneath is exposed...but that doesn't mean the arm should fall off. Now, if you keep hitting that side torso and destroy the internal structure? Be me guest and blow that arm right off after that point. =D

But no, I don't think damage should transfer from a damaged side torso or arm to the CT, it makes no sense except for maybe explosions (i.e. missles).

[wwiiogre]

you left out the lethal version of having your head completely destroyed with the crit on the cockpit area being lethal to the pilot while losing the head is merely lethal to the mech.

chris

[TimberJon]

@BossHammer, AAA+++ and will do biz with again.

I am happy to see that people do exist that agree if the legs go, you are still in the game GD it! Mines might shred only the feet in which case you can't balance very well on stumps (unless you have really boxy legs). But if my weapons are green and game mechanics allow me to prop myself into a crawl position with even limited aiming capability (maybe locked to a field of view with very slow turn rate) you better gut me or I will gut you.

Edited by TimberJon, 25 February 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[TimberJon]

Ah damage to internals.. yes it should bleed. If you are firing at an arm that isnt there any more because one weapon got there first, took the arm off and more projectiles are still on the way, the main torso will take all those hits. If you are firing into a hole in the side, yea of course it is going to wreak havoc on the internals. Take a gyro hit and you should have the option to lock the legs fast so that you can still stay more or less upright, you'd be a turret though. Ahh MW2...

That might be a bit much but I would want the Devs to consider all realistic options. Your mech wireframe should maybe look something like Mech Commander, with a layer for armor damage, and a layer for internal grades of damage. You should still be able to be completely disabled with near perfect armor if a skilled pilot tore a precision hole in a specific spot. Realistically? as a Merc that's how you get great new 'Mechs added to your arsenal. The crew will go without food if it means they have the cash to keep the salvage truck running. Steak dinner or new assault mech... hmmmm... toughie.

Edited by TimberJon, 25 February 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[TheBossHammer]

wwiiogre, on 25 February 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

you left out the lethal version of having your head completely destroyed with the crit on the cockpit area being lethal to the pilot while losing the head is merely lethal to the mech.

chris

TimberJon, on 25 February 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

@BossHammer, AAA+++ and will do biz with again.

I am happy to see that people do exist that agree if the legs go, you are still in the game GD it! Mines might shred only the feet in which case you can't balance very well on stumps (unless you have really boxy legs). But if my weapons are green and game mechanics allow me to prop myself into a crawl position with even limited aiming capability (maybe locked to a field of view with very slow turn rate) you better gut me or I will gut you.

@Timberjon

My sentiments EXACTLY. It would also make an ejection feature quite a bit more usable...and rewards for ejecting quite a bit more doable.

@wwiiogre

I'm facepalming myself right now, you are absolutely right. I'm gonna leave the answers as is, but a heashot is ALWAYS lethal.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 25 February 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

You managed not to get canon damage transfer in there.

Destroying any section should disable it and parts attached to it (so side torso lose the arms)
Extra damage should transfer.
CT destruction or both legs should be considered a kill. If your engine takes 3 hits, or your gyro 2 its a kill.

Only goofy thing from the TT is really the damage transfer, No transfer makes high damage packet weapons change in balance though.

[Maverick Howell]

maybe a side shot on an already destroyed arm could bleed half the damage through to the core of the mech.

[TheBossHammer]

TheRulesLawyer, on 25 February 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

You managed not to get canon damage transfer in there.

Destroying any section should disable it and parts attached to it (so side torso lose the arms)
Extra damage should transfer.
CT destruction or both legs should be considered a kill. If your engine takes 3 hits, or your gyro 2 its a kill.

Only goofy thing from the TT is really the damage transfer, No transfer makes high damage packet weapons change in balance though.

My mistake, it's up now. Thanks for the reminder.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Damage transfer should depend on the angle of fire. If you are at least partially side on to the mech and the shot through the damaged/destroyed side torso would hit the CT then it should be a shot to the internals as it's inside the armour.

[MaddMaxx]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 27 February 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

Damage transfer should depend on the angle of fire. If you are at least partially side on to the mech and the shot through the damaged/destroyed side torso would hit the CT then it should be a shot to the internals as it's inside the armour.

Absolute based on Fire angle. If you are directly in front and your fire is directed to a destroyed section, it passes through, no further harm. Side on, fire goes on until something to hit is found.

Otherwise, all the Physics based Threads can be closed as they simply become moot.

[CeeKay Boques]

Coring= Physics direction. Shouldn't be able to fire through something that's not there and cause damage. I can't answer beyond that because I'm hoping we don't have 12 Damage Panels, but 144 damage Panels, which would have a different "coring" theory.


"Torso Swing" with hits.

Yes, but like a 20pt hit is a possible knockdown, this should be damage based, and I'm leaning towards lasers not having an impact.
In addition there should be "Stabilization timer" where if you get knocked, you cannot get knocked for another 5 seconds. I think you know why.

One of the cool things in Mechwarrior is winning a 3 or 4 on 1. This won't happen if the knock mechanics are out of control, because the pilot will never regain control while fighting a group of mechs purposefully exploiting knock mechanics. This happened all the time in MW4 (which is why its weird for you to say its a huge departure). The knock in MW4 is slight enough that you can compensate. I could not imagine having to deal with the Arrow 4 version of that knock everytime I got hit in the side for more than 10 damage. However, who knows how complex the lab will be, maybe "Advanced Gyro" is something we can throw in there.

[TimberJon]

Advanced gyro SHOULD be one of the many components we can upgrade. But maybe not at launch. Read here for a comprehensive concept: http://mwomercs.com/...onent-upgrades/

As far as angle of penetration physics and deflection.. they should be taken into account. How time consuming the development might be... I dunno. I really hope that this concept is put in the game, even on a basic level. Weapons should be able to be deflected and glance off at the proper angles. Same with tank armor design today.

Edited by TimberJon, 27 February 2012 - 10:54 AM.

[Dagger D]

Hmmm. now what about extra splash damage for inernal ammo explosions and jump jet and flamer fuel??? I think that any internal ammo explosion damage should be transferd to the ajacent section or "AoE" based on the amount, type and size of ammo/fuel remaining.

Just saying in my own opinion.

Edited by Dagger D, 06 March 2012 - 12:24 PM.

[Siilk]

Destroyed parts should fell of the mech with side torsos taking attached arms(and weapon pods) with them, leaving gaping holes in the armour. Engine destruction should be, naturally, lethal to a mech. Engine damage or gyro destruction, on the other hand, should not. It would be crippling, of course, but mech would still have some titanium guts in it to continue fighting. In the same way, destruction of both legs definitely shouldn't be the end. Never underestimate how lethal a legless mech could be, especially, if it has good torso twist angle. BTW, having to deal with one angry torso in green condition shooting at you with all it has is a good way to discourage legging. Besides, you can still provide targeting information to your team, so even if you cannot hit it yourself, your teammates could.

[TheBossHammer]

Dagger D, on 06 March 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Hmmm. now what about extra splash damage for inernal ammo explosions and jump jet and flamer fuel??? I think that any internal ammo explosion damage should be transferd to the ajacent section or "AoE" based on the amount, type and size of ammo/fuel remaining.

Just saying in my own opinion.

Siilk, on 06 March 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Destroyed parts should fell of the mech with side torsos taking attached arms(and weapon pods) with them, leaving gaping holes in the armour. Engine destruction should be, naturally, lethal to a mech. Engine damage or gyro destruction, on the other hand, should not. It would be crippling, of course, but mech would still have some titanium guts in it to continue fighting. In the same way, destruction of both legs definitely shouldn't be the end. Never underestimate how lethal a legless mech could be, especially, if it has good torso twist angle. BTW, having to deal with one angry torso in green condition shooting at you with all it has is a good way to discourage legging. Besides, you can still provide targeting information to your team, so even if you cannot hit it yourself, your teammates could.

TimberJon, on 27 February 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Advanced gyro SHOULD be one of the many components we can upgrade. But maybe not at launch. Read here for a comprehensive concept: http://mwomercs.com/...onent-upgrades/

As far as angle of penetration physics and deflection.. they should be taken into account. How time consuming the development might be... I dunno. I really hope that this concept is put in the game, even on a basic level. Weapons should be able to be deflected and glance off at the proper angles. Same with tank armor design today.

I'm 100% behind Dagger D's idea. That's something that I hadn't thought of, and would lend a lot more realism to the way the mechs function. It would also explain where the heck all that ammo gets stored...

I'm also behind the advanced torso, it's already canon and if implemented properly could prevent some of the goofier loadouts that came up in MW4.

All good stuff guys!

Edited: Also loving the fire angle stuff.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 06 March 2012 - 11:02 PM.