31 replies to this topic

[Lorcan Lladd]

Ok, so, I've been running the same machine for some years now, and, as of late, it has failed to keep up with the demand of various applications, especially games.

To be more specific, it freezes, glitches or crashes regularly and consistently at any and all graphics settings, which, as you certainly can imagine, is maddening and makes playing any contemporary titles impossible.

I believe that is to be blamed primarily on insufficient memory - as I'm not really an expert on hardware, though, I'm not sure.

The thing is, on a generally outdated PC like mine, I'm not sure which memory exactly it is lacking on, whether it is graphics card memory or RAM memory.
My configuration:

Processor:
Intel Pentium Dual E2200 at 2.20GHz

Motherboard:
ASRock 945GCM-S

Graphics card:
Nvidia GeForce 8600 GT

RAM Memory:
1GB DDR2

Yes, I know, I should just build a new one from scratch, or at least get a new motherboard; I'm too cheap for that, however, so I'd have to ask you which component is primarily responsible for the issues I'm experiencing so that I might replace it.

Or overclock it, if the processor is the faulty component.

Any help would be appreciated, really!

Edit for some details I missed.

Edit for glory.

OS is Windows XP Professional 32-bit version.
I can run older games for hours and hours straight without encountering any issues, but newer ones with a higher memory demand like Mass Effect 2, The Darkness 2, Fable 3 and Skyrim are all prone to frequent crashing and lagging.

Well, I was already pretty content with the prospect of being forced to do an upgrade, so I'd like to thank you for your advice; at least I know what I've got to do, now.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 26 February 2012 - 06:33 PM.

[Glory in the Highest]

What game(s) are you trying to play? And what OS do you run?

Your processor and ram are both significantly insufficient for any of today's titles. You're likely to see a loadtime and framerate improvement by upping to 4 gb ram or even 2 if your mobo can't handle 4. And even for top end games like Battlefield 3, 8GB ram is ideal.

For most dual core mobos, 4 GB is the maximum it can hold. Ram is very cheap right now, so if that's a possibility and you absolutely can't change out the whole deal, I'd go that way first.


Alternately, if you have $400 to spare (but who does, really...) you can get an AMD FX 8120 8-core, a decent motherboard, and 8GB of ram. Sometimes even for less than $400. That should allow you to play any top of the end games and then some for a couple years, provided your video card is solid. It's not as powerful as an i7 rig but it's affordable and does the job.

Edited by glory, 26 February 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[Frosty Thundertrod]

That looks like a 32 bit syistem so I would not put more the 3gb of ram in to it.
also your vido card is really out dated I would look for a new one

you can get 2gb of ddr2 for less then $30 on newegg add that to your 1 gig for 3 totel.
You can get a 1gb gforce 550ti for $144 3gb of system rams and 1gb of vram gets you to the 4gb max that a 32 bit syistem can use.
you can but more ram in but 32bit only can accesses 4 gb so any over 4gb is a waste.
That will get you running most games for $174 pulse shiping and tax

[Vulpesveritas]

Frosty Thundertrod, on 26 February 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

That looks like a 32 bit syistem so I would not put more the 3gb of ram in to it.
also your vido card is really out dated I would look for a new one

you can get 2gb of ddr2 for less then $30 on newegg add that to your 1 gig for 3 totel.
You can get a 1gb gforce 550ti for $144 3gb of system rams and 1gb of vram gets you to the 4gb max that a 32 bit syistem can use.
you can but more ram in but 32bit only can accesses 4 gb so any over 4gb is a waste.
That will get you running most games for $174 pulse shiping and tax

Why the heck would anyone want to buy a 550ti when the 7750 outperforms it, doesn't require a 6/8 pin connector and uses nearly half as much power, runs cooler, and is cheaper by $20 new for most builds. Even an OC'd 7750 is the same cost as the least expensive 550ti on newegg too http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127665 for an example. then there is the 6800 series and 7770 if he has a bit more money.
That said, if it is upgraded as such, yeah. But if he has $400 as before;
option;
motherboard; http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157280 $85
CPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103962 $150
GPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127665 $120
RAM: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820103007 $28

[guardiandashi]

ok as I see it you have 2 major issues holding the system back
#1 the 1gb ram really doesn't cut it on newer apps, your board nominally supports 4gb ram so you could upgrade that

http://www.newegg.co...28PC2%205300%29

Corsair ram you can get 4gb sticks for ~$26 each plus $1 shipping

depending on if you have 1x 1gb, or 2x 512 I am not sure if I would get the single or dual 2gb kit (if your are the 1x1gb I might go for the single 2gb module as a "patch" and see how it goes,) if you are memory limited or running a 32bit os that should make it a lot happier, if you are running the 2x 512's the $50 4gb kit may be a "better" choice as you can max out the board ram ... unless you are running a 32bit os then it doesn't really matter that much.

now granted your Cpu is ~5 years old its not horrible.... but its definately dated, it does report as a 64bit processor so it would work with a 64 bit os loaded on the system, the real limitation may be its 800 mhz front side bus and the fact that it does not appear to support hyper threading so it can't "double up" and run 4 processes, its limited to 2 (to match its dual core) plus your board uses the LGA775 socket which I believe is mostly obsolete, looking at newegg you CAN get replacement processors for the socket but I don't think I would bother, as the cpu while not great is not worthless either.

the second place where IMO your system really fails is the GPU but all is not lost. your system does have a pci express 16 slot (that your graphics card is plugged into most likely) and you SHOULD be able to use a pci express 1, 2, or 3 card in the slot but pci express 2.1 may not work

so something like http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130625
or a ati equivalant (see other threads) while it might end up being cpu limited (IE the graphics card is capable of more than the cpu will give it meaning the gpu is loaping along and waiting for more data to be handed off...) would be another good interm upgrade, the best part is that when you are ready for the mb and processor replacement you should be able to transfer the gpu to the "new system" without having to spend more.

the bigest question is what your budget is like. the other thing is frankly the http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130610 is realistically probabally a much better video card than the 550

reviews at various sites (toms hardware etc) will help you determine the best value cards IE best performance for the $

for example one reference chart indicated that a 8800 gtx gpu which is SERIOUSLY dated to obsolete still dramatically outperforms a 520 series card something that is ~5-6 generations newer. so sometimes something like a 460 (which was ~last years model may be better than the 550 which is a lower rated card. ) and you can pick up the 460 for ~$150 (or less with rebates) and still pull the system you have up a long way.

[Vulpesveritas]

guardiandashi, on 26 February 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

ok as I see it you have 2 major issues holding the system back
#1 the 1gb ram really doesn't cut it on newer apps, your board nominally supports 4gb ram so you could upgrade that

http://www.newegg.co...28PC2%205300%29

Corsair ram you can get 4gb sticks for ~$26 each plus $1 shipping

depending on if you have 1x 1gb, or 2x 512 I am not sure if I would get the single or dual 2gb kit (if your are the 1x1gb I might go for the single 2gb module as a "patch" and see how it goes,) if you are memory limited or running a 32bit os that should make it a lot happier, if you are running the 2x 512's the $50 4gb kit may be a "better" choice as you can max out the board ram ... unless you are running a 32bit os then it doesn't really matter that much.

now granted your Cpu is ~5 years old its not horrible.... but its definately dated, it does report as a 64bit processor so it would work with a 64 bit os loaded on the system, the real limitation may be its 800 mhz front side bus and the fact that it does not appear to support hyper threading so it can't "double up" and run 4 processes, its limited to 2 (to match its dual core) plus your board uses the LGA775 socket which I believe is mostly obsolete, looking at newegg you CAN get replacement processors for the socket but I don't think I would bother, as the cpu while not great is not worthless either.

the second place where IMO your system really fails is the GPU but all is not lost. your system does have a pci express 16 slot (that your graphics card is plugged into most likely) and you SHOULD be able to use a pci express 1, 2, or 3 card in the slot but pci express 2.1 may not work

so something like http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130625
or a ati equivalant (see other threads) while it might end up being cpu limited (IE the graphics card is capable of more than the cpu will give it meaning the gpu is loaping along and waiting for more data to be handed off...) would be another good interm upgrade, the best part is that when you are ready for the mb and processor replacement you should be able to transfer the gpu to the "new system" without having to spend more.

the bigest question is what your budget is like. the other thing is frankly the http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130610 is realistically probabally a much better video card than the 550

reviews at various sites (toms hardware etc) will help you determine the best value cards IE best performance for the $

for example one reference chart indicated that a 8800 gtx gpu which is SERIOUSLY dated to obsolete still dramatically outperforms a 520 series card something that is ~5-6 generations newer. so sometimes something like a 460 (which was ~last years model may be better than the 550 which is a lower rated card. ) and you can pick up the 460 for ~$150 (or less with rebates) and still pull the system you have up a long way.

Once again, I have only two issues with this;
One, if he expects to play a CryENGINE 3 title like MWO, realistically he will want at least a quad core. And a more modern one, as the game is threadhappy.
two, Nvidea again? By every review out there, unless you are getting a used part deal, AMD(used to be ATI) cards are more powerful at every price point save for the $350ish price point, where the Nvidea GTX 570 lies at the moment. While using less power and creating less heat mind you.

[guardiandashi]

vulp I am not going to argue ati vs nvidia with you. I specifically suggested he do so research as to what the best cards are.

I happen to like nvidia cards personally so they are the 1st ones I look at, and most of my advice was general enough to apply to ANY specific hardware brand.

anyway you have also admitted a strong bias towards ATI/amd in other threads, so please do NOT rip on the GENERAL advice I gave. (and anyway even if the nvidia cards may not be the absolute best options, even a 460 which is last years card and available for ~130 (with rebates) is still going to be such a major upgrade that its not even going to be funny.

myself when I am shopping for gpu's I typically look for whatever is the "best (or pretty good) that is available for my budget" at the time, and personally I have had bad experiences with ATI, in the past, and specifically (as a brand with PNY) so ATI has to have a pretty major advantage for me to look at them, and I will NOT use PNY in fact you could GIVE me a pny part and I still wouldn't use it.

so yes I look at nvidia parts before ATI, but I tried to give general advice not "go buy ***" because it is the flavor of the minute

[Evedro Solais]

Since I've been spending the last week picking and judging lots of PC components based on suggestions I'll add my two cents:

GPUs:

Spoiler

This market is kinda hard to pin down I myself would rate the following cards in terms of raw power from best to worst as my suggested cards (A far as Budget is concerned. Im pretty sure the higest end cards for each brand are pretty comparable but with them being way way WAY out of my price range, I never looked into them):

Radeon HD 5850 (256 bit, 1 GB GDDR5)
Radeon HD 6850 (256 bit, 1GB GDDR5)
Nvidia GTX-550ti (192 bit, 1GB GDDR5)
Radeon HD 7750 (128 bit, 1GB GDDR5)
Radeon HD 6770 (128 bit, 1GB GDDR5)

Now I know there are 2GB version of some card which add about $20 to the price. I would say that brings the total performance up one rank in this list. Next, bench mark sites also place them in this order except for the 7750 which is above the 550ti. The top two are older cards are double profile(What I call them anyways)

The bit rating is the memory bandwidth size for the card. Some cards you can overclock to improve this but thats usually a manufacturer specific option.

RAM

Spoiler

Ok I find that many people make a mistake with RAM, so Ill spell it out in caps to make a point: WHEN INSTALLING NEW RAM, BE SURE TO CHECK THE BIOS/UEFI AND SET THE MEMORY SETTINGS SPCIFICALLY FOR YOUR RAM.

This includes the speed, voltage and timings. If you don't 99.99% of the time your system will be very unstable. That 00.01% is when your mobo's default settings already match your RAM. Other than that, there is nothing special about selecting ram. I've seen some boards come preset to 1600Mhz around, rare, but becoming more common as technology progresses. 1333Mhz is still the standard speed.

Now then, mixing ram speeds is a bad idea. First off, the ram will only run at the lowest speed ram stick, second the timings/voltage may be different adding to system instability and general inefficiency. This used to be acceptable as going from a 1 GB 1033 to a 2.5 GB mixed 1066/1333 was better than nothing but at this point in the game, its not a situation you will often come across.

Motherboards

Spoiler

This is not my strong point. Generally the best thing to do is decide your CPU first, specifically Intel or AMD, then pick your Motherboard. You can generally find a good opinion of a motherboard by looking at both good and bad reviews. Especially the bad ones. If the problem is due to a stupid user mistake you should be fine as long as you don't make that same mistake. If not see if anyone has found a slolution. Worst case a specific model may just be bad and if so you can usually invoke warranty for a refund. or replacement within the brand.

CPU

Spoiler

Ok first off, Intel is kicking the **** out of AMD in the CPU market, but they cost alot more. I heard an apt phrase the other day I will repeat regarding buying AMD over Intel "Get 80% of the power for 60% of the price" and thats pretty accurate. Intel just has a more powerful and efficient archetecture out, especially since the first gen Bulldozer line flopped. Hopefully the second gen line will do better (Sorta like the Phenom and Phenom II)

While I can't recommend one line over the other since its really a matter of budget I will reccomend some things within each line.

Intel

LGA 1155
This line is soon to be discontinued within Intel. THe last processor they have announced is an Ivy Bridge i5 CPU.

In addition the difference between the i5-2400 and the i5-2500K is not that much and would encourage getting the i5-2400 to save money

LGA 2011
From the looks of things this is where Intel plans to focus most of its next line. Of course it may turn out like the LGA 1156 and get a revision soon after (probably into a 2012 socket, heh). Anyways if you are a big spender you should probably go for this socket

AMD

AM3+
This socet also supports the AM3 so that means you can put a Phenom II series CPU on this no problem! This is great news. Going this route you'll want to nab either a Phenom II X4 or X6 Black Edition. The Bulldozer(FX) series is good but not that great. You can over clock a Phenom II X4 better than an FX-4100 and an X6 better than an FX-6100. Once again though this is vs the first gen of the bUlldozer series so hopefull Gen two will set things straight.

There isn't much else to say.

So thats my two cents.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Imo, the cheapest solution with the hardware you have would be to get a 64 bit OS and more RAM closer to 8G. That will at least get you playing without crashing.

If you get around to upgrading your motherboard, CPU, Graphics adapter, HDD etc.. then you already have some good feedback above.

[guardiandashi]

LakeDaemon, on 26 February 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Imo, the cheapest solution with the hardware you have would be to get a 64 bit OS and more RAM closer to 8G. That will at least get you playing without crashing.

If you get around to upgrading your motherboard, CPU, Graphics adapter, HDD etc.. then you already have some good feedback above.

lake there is 1 major issue with your recomendation which is decient advice as far as it goes.

the problem the OP is going to run into is his motherboard while decient (for its time) is flat out obsolete, it has 2 sockets for ddr2 ram, and has noted issues where the HARDWARE may not fully support 4gb ram let alone more and 8gb ram is NOT supported by the board hardware manufacturer.

the socket is basically obsolete as far as I can tell my best guess is it was effectively discontinued prior to the i3/i5/i7 series.

so advising someone to upgrade the os (margional value for the hardware the op has) and recommending he add ram beyond what the hardware will support is IMO just bad advice.

the gist of my advice was to focus on the 2 things that will make a big difference and still be relatively easy /cheap.
1 upgrade ram, ~2gb minimum recommendation
2 replace videocard and put something modern in.
if the OP stops there that is ~200 or less and it should make the computer more usable/stable. unless the root issue is power supply related.

yes replacing the system board and cpu with something more up to date would be a better upgrade in the long run, and instaid of putting ram in a fairly obsolete system, put more better ram into a new system is/might be a better alternative, but depending on the budget it may not be feasable.

[Vincent Vascaul]

I was gonna post a big thing of advice but Evedro seems to have things covered fairly well (nice post man) however I would recommend AMD cards period, I finally just rid my self of my last Nvidia powered PC and man I gotta telly you it was nothing but a pain in my butt (driver issues ironicly enough) AMD's are great cards andas long as you always properly uninstall your old drivers before installing your new ones you should be fine.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Some good advice on here, except the fan boy ism, a 550TI will perform just as well as the 7750 (the 550TI performs better in Crysis 2) which for the record has not had great reviews anywhere other than power consumption.

[Gremlich Johns]

Keep the case, heave the guts, go with a new build as suggested above. You can only be tight-fisted for so long before you will never be able to even use the code that will tell you whether your computer can play "name it" game or not.

[Vulpesveritas]

DV^McKenna, on 27 February 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Some good advice on here, except the fan boy ism, a 550TI will perform just as well as the 7750 (the 550TI performs better in Crysis 2) which for the record has not had great reviews anywhere other than power consumption.

They've already shown it is driver issues with the game that will hopefully be fixed within a couple months. In nearly all other games the 7750 outperforms the 550ti.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Vulpesveritas, on 27 February 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

They've already shown it is driver issues with the game that will hopefully be fixed within a couple months. In nearly all other games the 7750 outperforms the 550ti.

I guess its hard to accept that AMD have not done well with the 7750. From all the reviews i have seen the 550ti beats the 7750 in Crysis 2,Battlefield 3, WoW (lol), Skyrim, Dirt 3.

The only game where the 7750 edges out on top was Metro 2033

So i'd like to see some proof that the 7750 is a better budget buy than the 550ti.

http://www.anandtech...ition-review/11

http://www.tomshardw...ark,3135-6.html

[Scar]

The best advice is to wait until the new generation of CPU and graphics will fill the market in coming summer. Buying the new PC now you're locking yourself in the previous generation and paying the full price for the hardware that will become an obsolete and inferior to the new ones, in the next 2-3 months.

"Don't pay today - for the yesterday." (c) the main law of PC upgrade

[Vulpesveritas]

DV^McKenna, on 28 February 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

I guess its hard to accept that AMD have not done well with the 7750. From all the reviews i have seen the 550ti beats the 7750 in Crysis 2,Battlefield 3, WoW (lol), Skyrim, Dirt 3.

The only game where the 7750 edges out on top was Metro 2033

So i'd like to see some proof that the 7750 is a better budget buy than the 550ti.

http://www.anandtech...ition-review/11

http://www.tomshardw...ark,3135-6.html

http://www.techradar...eview?artc_pg=2
http://www.techspot....7750/page6.html
http://www.techspot....7750/page7.html
http://www.techpower...ossFire/10.html

And lets not forget that it can be overclocked too.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 28 February 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[guardiandashi]

Vulpesveritas, on 28 February 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

http://www.techradar...eview?artc_pg=2
http://www.techspot....7750/page6.html
http://www.techspot....7750/page7.html
http://www.techpower...ossFire/10.html

And lets not forget that it can be overclocked too.

I love it, you keep argueing that the ati 7750 and 7770 are such wonderful cards and that nvidia sucks, and the reviews that you linked to actually specifically say that the cards while they are great on power savings actually SUCK performance wise, and FAIL in a price/performance ratio with the nvidia equivalants.

ok ati fanboy I think I will take your arguements and frankly ignore them until you link some reviews that actually match your conclusions.

{end of line}

Edited by guardiandashi, 28 February 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[Sug]

Didn't see the OP mention what his power supply is rated for but if it's like 5 years old you'll probably have to replace it anyway if you upgrade anything but the ram.

Anything but a low end card will probably require a powersupply upgrade. Most likely yours doesn't have the juice, the rails, or the connectors for powerful card.

Go to the magazine aisle of a grocery store and look in the back of PC Gamer and Maximum PC magazines. They usually have hardware suggestions. I know PC Gamer still does a High End, Midrange, Low End, breakdown of hardware every month.

OP doesn't seem like someone that upgrades every 6 months so my advice if you're doing a major upgrade would be to buy the best things you can and don't worry about what's coming in 2-3 months. There's always something coming in 2-3 months. If you're using hardware from more than 4 years ago you're not going to notice a difference between something that's out now and something that's coming out in may.


That being said I was in a similar situation about 2 months ago, dying graphics card (HD3800....) I bought a low end but still much better than my current HD5670 for 60$ to hold me over til this summer when MWO comes out (hopefully)

By then i'll be ready to drop 200-250ish$ on a midrange card.

[Vulpesveritas]

guardiandashi, on 28 February 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

I love it, you keep argueing that the ati 7750 and 7770 are such wonderful cards and that nvidia sucks, and the reviews that you linked to actually specifically say that the cards while they are great on power savings actually SUCK performance wise, and FAIL in a price/performance ratio with the nvidia equivalants.

ok ati fanboy I think I will take your arguements and frankly ignore them until you link some reviews that actually match your conclusions.

{end of line}

Honestly, I am not such an ATI fanboy, I am an ethical company fanboy, if Nvidea or Intel were ethical companies I would have no qualms with reccomending them, and if Nvidea were more competitive then i could recommend them like I will give Intel options CPU wise. But here is the 3dmark score which more or less measures brute power;
http://www.techspot....7750/page4.html
that Nvidea is 1% faster brute force wise, however;
http://www.techspot....7750/page8.html
it uses 73% more power. And given that the 7950 is $10 cheaper initially, which is the better deal? Also, AMD is in the top 20 ethical fortune 500 companies, and doesn't pay video game makers to cripple it's competition's cards in select games, disable functions of it's cards if anther comapine's cards are used in the same machine, or market multiple cards under the same name.