47 replies to this topic

[tyr rollins]

My crew and I made this mechwarrior inspired short film for a webseries we hope to produce, how you all enjoy.

[Kaemon]

Well done, sir!

[Orcinus]

Looking forward to seeing more!

[Cattra Kell]

Well done sir, well done. Hope to see more.

[Bronsk]

Very nicely done, looking forward to seeing more!

[Tannhauser Gate]

I find it deeply offensive that you'd choose to use actual holocaust footage of real people who were starved to death for your fictitious venture. I don't think you are callous but probably just naive or desensitized to what you are showing.

The first person who says. "Aw lighten up." Is welcome to present this short film in a synagogue or to people who still have prison camp numbers tattooed on their forearms.

This is fiction. There no need to insult the memories of those who died in reality just to make your film look edgy and gritty.

[Kaemon]

LakeDaemon, on 28 February 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

I find it deeply offensive that you'd choose to use actual holocaust footage of real people who were starved to death for your fictitious venture. I don't think you are callous but probably just naive or desensitized to what you are showing.

The first person who says. "Aw lighten up." Is welcome to present this short film in a synagogue or to people who still have prison camp numbers tattooed on their forearms.

This is fiction. There no need to insult the memories of those who died in reality just to make your film look edgy and gritty.

Would you rather no one ever talk about it?

Because then it would be quickly forgotten, and most likely just as quickly repeated...

[Tannhauser Gate]

Kaemon, on 28 February 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Would you rather no one ever talk about it?

Because then it would be quickly forgotten, and most likely just as quickly repeated...

uh this isnt a remembrance or a discussion about the holocaust.. this is a film that is an advertisement for fiction based webseries.. they didnt need to exploit those where tortured and killed in real life for it. This isnt how it should be "remembered".

MWO forum isnt the place for this discussion. if you want to discuss this further anyone is welcome to pm me.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 28 February 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Kaemon]

LakeDaemon, on 28 February 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

uh this isnt a remembrance or a discussion about the holocaust.. this is a film that is an advertisement for fiction based webseries.. they didnt need to exploit those where tortured and killed in real life for it. This isnt how it should be "remembered".

I wont post anymore on this so say what you like. MWO forum isnt the place for this discussion.

Maybe you should give the OP a chance to respond, before you sling vitriol at it and run off.

That's a knee **** reaction, the scene deserves discussion (as it pertains to the movie if nothing else).

That is not breaking the CoC on the boards, nor is it out of line for the thread.

Seriously I ask that you cannot draw the metaphor from this that no matter how much we advance in technology or civilization, it means nothing if we can't keep from ******* killing each other?

[Tannhauser Gate]

Just before you posted I edited my post to invite people to discuss it in IMs. If the mods want to move this topic to someplace appropriate then fine. It can be discussed there.

Imo, and i think many will agree, there is no need to exploit the holocaust or any thing of that nature for the sake of metaphor. In this case, an advertisement for their webseries. I think its in poor taste and would be offensive to many. That you will never convince me of otherwise.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 28 February 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[tyr rollins]

The purpose of the historical footage is to show the parrallels of the real world to the fictitious one. The real history to the hypothetical future. The essential relevancy of the most important war of our worldly history to a story about war and all the horrors there in. Battletech is not a children friendly universe, nor should it ever really be treated as such. To do so would trivialize the innocent victims of every armed conflict. To treat the holocaust as untouchable would cause it to sink into obscurity and the lessons as well. People want a mechwarrior film with depth. Depth requires a dose of reality. The fact that we are talking about what it all means, means to me I'm succeeding in my mission.

[guardian wolf]

Did you guys get a website up yet?

[Tannhauser Gate]

Your mission.... was to raising awareness of your webseries and not to raise awareness of the holocaust or the horrors of war. For someone who considers it untouchable, you touched it. You trivialized it by exploited it for your webseries. Nearly%50 of the film was asking people to subscribe.

You used holocaust footage for your advertisement.. plain and simple. Hardly the thing someone who thinks its untouchable would do.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 28 February 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Orcinus]

He never said that he himself considered the subject untouchable.
Rather, he stated what would happen if people in general would consider it as such.

Specifically:

tyr rollins, on 28 February 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

To treat the holocaust as untouchable would cause it to sink into obscurity and the lessons as well.

EDIT: In other words, what the next post says.

Edited by Orcinus, 28 February 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Cattra Kell]

LakeDaemon, on 28 February 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Your mission.... was to raising awareness of your webseries and not to raise awareness of the holocaust. For someone who considers it untouchable, you touched it. You trivialized it by exploited it for your webseries. Nearly%50 of the film was asking people to subsctibe.

You used holocaust footage for your advertisement.. plain and simple. Hardly the thing someone who thinks its untouchable would do.

He didn't say it was untouchable nor did he say that he thought it was untouchable, he said "To treat the holocaust as untouchable would cause it to sink into obscurity and the lessons as well."

Basically if we do not touch the holocaust then the lessons we have learned from whats considered some the darkest years of war will be forgotten and as such if those lessons are forgotten then we are doomed to repeat.

Also; as I have sent to you already. What is the difference of using this footage when blockbuster films do the same thing, or even any war film at all. The dropping of the atomic bombs, the return of the Japanese PoW's, the bombing of pearl harbor, Operation desert Storm, etc.

How is the holocaust any different from other war films which are used in the same way? (Not trying to be ignorant but its a legitimate point, war film is war film.)

Edited by Cattra Kell, 28 February 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Kaemon]

LakeDaemon, on 28 February 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Your mission.... was to raising awareness of your webseries and not to raise awareness of the holocaust. For someone who considers it untouchable, you touched it. You trivialized it by exploited it for your webseries. Nearly%50 of the film was asking people to subsctibe.

You used holocaust footage for your advertisement.. plain and simple. Hardly the thing someone who thinks its untouchable would do.

I won't drag out the discussion on here as Lake's requested it be moved to PMs, suffice to say we disagree a bit, and that's fine.

***edits***
Damn, Sorry Lake, looks like we all dropped PMs on you at the same time...no disrespect/ganging up on intended.

tyr rollins, on 28 February 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

The purpose of the historical footage is to show the parrallels of the real world to the fictitious one. The real history to the hypothetical future. The essential relevancy of the most important war of our worldly history to a story about war and all the horrors there in. Battletech is not a children friendly universe, nor should it ever really be treated as such. To do so would trivialize the innocent victims of every armed conflict. To treat the holocaust as untouchable would cause it to sink into obscurity and the lessons as well. People want a mechwarrior film with depth. Depth requires a dose of reality. The fact that we are talking about what it all means, means to me I'm succeeding in my mission.

I'll agree with this in theory and I did think in scene it was relevant, as a director you have some responsibility to carefully weigh the social responsibility of your work against the audience it is targeted for, to elicit discussion more than direct outrage (Michael Moore would argue this point I suppose), and to clearly define your intention as I think you did here quite well.

I look forward to more of your work.

Edited by Kaemon, 28 February 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[Opus]

That was stunning, well played, well played

[Vernius Ix]

LakeDaemon, on 28 February 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

I find it deeply offensive that you'd choose to use actual holocaust footage of real people who were starved to death for your fictitious venture. I don't think you are callous but probably just naive or desensitized to what you are showing.

The first person who says. "Aw lighten up." Is welcome to present this short film in a synagogue or to people who still have prison camp numbers tattooed on their forearms.

This is fiction. There no need to insult the memories of those who died in reality just to make your film look edgy and gritty.

Speaking as a Jew, the footage combined with the dialgoue running over gives context to the images and reinforces the horrible nature of what is shown. It is not offensve. Its powerful.

[Tannhauser Gate]

There is discussion, there is remembrance, there is teaching to never repeat the horrors of the past. This is not it. This is simple and graphic exploitation. So.. the aim of this snip is to make this webseries look gritty and edgy and to make people subscribe. (nearly %50 of it just say subscribe to see chapter 2).

Imo, Tyr chose poorly, naively, and then tried to make himself look noble by saying it was his mission to raise awareness of some kind.

[Kaemon]

LakeDaemon, on 28 February 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

There is discussion, there is remembrance, there is teaching to never repeat the horrors of the past. This is not it. This is simple and graphic exploitation. So.. the aim of this snip is to make this webseries look gritty and edgy and to make people subscribe. (nearly %50 of it just say subscribe to see chapter 2).

Imo, Tyr chose poorly, naively, and then tried to make himself look noble by saying it was his mission to raise awareness of some kind.

With respect I totally disagree.

Onto the rest of the movie now...

OP you really need to talk to Ironhawk and Hayden in this thread...they can do some wondrous things with your mech model paints

Edited by Kaemon, 28 February 2012 - 11:24 AM.