156 replies to this topic

[slide]

Ok so according to Q&A 4 we now know this,

"Mechs can never fully be destroyed. (shot up but not destroyed)"

So where does this leave salvage? A major part of this universe is built about salvage. If your mech cannot be destroyed and is consequently returned to you after every mission what happens to the salvage for the victors.

In this universe to date you have had 3 possible scenarios with salvage.

1. Win the battle take your mech home and maybe get some salvage.
2. Lose the battle, but retreat and take your mech home.
3. Lose the battle, lose your mech, go home disposesed.

The victor has always had the choice of battlefield salvage, many a famous merc company has been built around this (think Grey Death Legion)

If you always take your mech home what salvage is left for the victors, discarded arms with the odd weapon.

Does the game duplicate downed mechs to give to the victor, this would lead to eventually everyone owning 100 mechs (definitely against the feel of the universe where mechs are supposed to be a rare thing) or ridiculously wealthy players from all the sales.

Does the player have to pay a bounty to get his mech back from the victors?? Not enough c-bills, bad luck maybe?

One way to get better equipment in this universe has been to capture/recover a downed mech if you remove that dynamic I will be severely disappointed.

[Fresh Meat]

I don't think there will be a classical salvage system where the victor has free range over the remains. I bet that you can play that way on Solaris if you wish. but it seems that battles will be isolated events where "land", c-bill, and exp are the only thing really at stake. Maybe they can implement hidden caches to claim... i dunno

[Namwons]

I have also been thinking how salvage is going to be handled with said anouncement. Good points

[verybad]

In general, over 50% of mechs die in a lot of fights.

Obviously you can't run a multiplayer game the same as you can run a singleplayer game with a campain. In a single player game, the player is the "hero" and reaps the benefits. In a multiplayer game, at least 50% of the players will be in destroyed mechs. If you're an avrage player skill wise, you soon wouldn't be able to play the game, because your mech got shot out from under you, and you can no longer afford the game. Soon the better players start losing their rides, and eventually, nobody can play, because salvage is based on a shrinking pool of technology.

"Realistically" losing mechs would result in "realistically" not being able to play about a day after the game was realeased.

They never said salvage was in the game, but getting pay bonuses from winning is the equivalent.

Edited by verybad, 15 February 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[nubnub]

This seems like the biggest 'issue' in the game IMHO. I think if the mech is all shot up then there wont be much to salvage but if you blow the cockpit then heaps of weapons and tech are up for the taking. I think you should be able to totally loose your mech, especially if the mech is lost of foreign turf or the planet is totally overrun during the battle.

Also the issue of persistence of the physical wreck in the game, discussed elsewhere.

[verybad]

If you lose your mech, then you can't play any longer. That's not fun. In general, in past mechwarriro games, all of one side, adn some of the otehr is killed.

Don't you notice that you just MIGHT have diminishing returns...

[CPUuser123]

Good topic that needs to be addressed. Salvage and repairs could easily be the consistent money sink of which all games need. If your arm gets blown off, you should have to repurchase the weapon + repair in my opinion. However, if you killed someone with a perfectly good arm and same weapon, why not open roll it or give players the chance to salvage it?
BT: no salvage, just exp
MW3-4: salvage was now you replensished weapons and obtained new ones
MechCom 1-2: More less same as MW.

Would be a bummer to not see salvage implemented in some form.

[slide]

True they haven't said salvage would be in the game, but IMO it won't be a proper BT games without it.

Every game from the TT version through to MW4:mercs and the mech commander games, the novels, even clan lore involve salvage. It has got to be in there somehow.

I agree you could go broke quick if you keep losing, but thats the risk when you go to war. You can lose everything. Maybe you can pay for mech insurance.

[Fresh Meat]

maybe the loosing team could loose 5% of their weapon load, randomly from destroyed chassis. 5% percent is not so high that a person would find themselves unable to play given they have approximately 50% chance of winning/loosing, but it would add a greater sense of importance and a lasting effect to the battles.

[verybad]

It simply doesn't work as an economic system in a MP game. Mechs are too expensive, any game would cost more than the pay could make up for for over 50% (more if damage is taken into account)

There has not been salvage in any multiplayer mechwarrior game in any case. MP is fine without it. That we're getting any economic system is cool however.

[nubnub]

I think you should be able to loose everything. You then have to go into gladiator type fights to earn money and freedom, or someone gives you a mech which you have to do missions for, then you will value your mech. Makes everything more valuable and more realistic.

Salvage works will in other games, especially diablo, dungeon siege and the like.

[verybad]

Salvage requires the target to be destroyed. Those games like Diablo require you to KILL the enemy. You don't lose as much in Diablo however if you die.

Why call it salvage if it's not? That would be a farce. A bonus after a win is the exact same thing economically.

[Fresh Meat]

nubnub, on 15 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I think you should be able to loose everything. You then have to go into gladiator type fights to earn money and freedom, or someone gives you a mech which you have to do missions for, then you will value your mech. Makes everything more valuable and more realistic.

Salvage works will in other games, especially diablo, dungeon siege and the like.

I think that is too extreme and would drive most people away, especially inexperienced pilots new to the game. A more viable approach is taking a small percentage of the defeated players gear, randomly.

Edited by Fresh_Meat, 15 February 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[Namwons]

At the minimum I would like to see weapons and possibly modules being salvageable, given they didn't get blown up.

[Halfinax]

nubnub, on 15 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I think you should be able to loose everything. You then have to go into gladiator type fights to earn money and freedom, or someone gives you a mech which you have to do missions for, then you will value your mech. Makes everything more valuable and more realistic.

Salvage works will in other games, especially diablo, dungeon siege and the like.

And then what do you do the first time you get DCed or Lagout and lose your 'Mech? What about the first time you get hit with a lucky shot? Old hats might pick up the pieces and just say "well that happened", but the casual players that the game will thrive on the business or population of just walks away and says "forget this nonesense" and the game fails within 6 months.

[Ian MacLeary]

Okay. I get that people want salvage in the game, it's a traditional thing in the MechWarrior and BattleTech franchises. But put it to yourself this way:

How would I feel about playing this game if I were to become dispossessed?

(And don't say 'It can't happen to me, I'm too good.' There's always someone better, or you fail to pay attention to that cliff edge while running away from the Atlas, or even just being in the wrong place when the LRM barrage lands.)

Now - multiply that feeling by, oh, several thousand or so, and you have the idea of the outrage that would be generated on the first day of live play alone. Because if you have a permanent salvage system, then approximately half of all new MechWarriors are going to lose their 'mech on their very first outing.

So stop asking for salvage. Even trying to make it a 'random lost weapons' kind of thing will cause a large backlash from the players who are not BT/MW fans, and even among some of them. I can just see the threads about 'Unfair randomizer always takes my biggest weapon' and 'But my side won, why did I lose stuff?'

We'll get bonuses for objectives and possibly for kills and assists. Let that be your salvage, because honestly, most times you'd just want to trade the salvage in for cash anyway. "Hmm, I seem to have scraped up a half-dozen SRM-2 launchers I have no use for. Where's the nearest junkyard?"

[Fresh Meat]

Its not so much the material reward its the matter of raising the stakes a little and adding a more personal attraction to the game.

It all come down to cognitive dissonance, it's why mmo's are so successful.

Edited by Fresh_Meat, 15 February 2012 - 09:40 PM.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

maybe there is a debt system where you owe money back to the game for repairing your mech after a battle. The idea of salvage is can we stock more than 1 mech in our hangar ? or do we need to earn credits for housing mechs. Then again if i loose all my mechs & owe a debt i just bring out the credit card & punch in my paypal digits.

[nubnub]

Okay I see now that I was wrong. If you were to weigh up the potential benifits vs disadvantages of salvage then it would be better to go less exteme rather than loose players to rage quit; slight loss of realism but big gains in gameplay/users/etc.

Maybe there could still be special stage fights where it is battle to the death - but big rewards!

[Fresh Meat]

Xenois Shalashaska, on 15 February 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

maybe there is a debt system where you owe money back to the game for repairing your mech after a battle. The idea of salvage is can we stock more than 1 mech in our hangar ? or do we need to earn credits for housing mechs. Then again if i loose all my mechs & owe a debt i just bring out the credit card & punch in my paypal digits.

They have stated that we will not loose our mechs. We will surely need to buy storage space for additional mechs (they need to make money)