63 replies to this topic

[Maris]

Morkani, on 02 March 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I think the dev's have thicker skin than we give them credit for....I was on that bandwaggon about the all systems nominal, but I was "upset" about it all in fun. and I think the dev's knew that. It showed the dev's they were working on a project that a lot of us have passion for along with them. I'd almost guarentee there was a discussion before hand, "do you think we'd get a reaction if we said all systems "online" instead of "nominal"?, I'm certain it didn't accidently get put in like that. Basically, all this "attention to detail" that I see, I take it as a love for the game, & i'm willing to bet the dev's do too. On the other hand, accusing the dev's of creating vaporware, or working too slow & such i think is unconstructive & i'll agree with you on these points, give the dev's a break!

This, particularly the bolded parts.

There will always be the negative nancys and usually they are just trolls or "I'm on the internetz and I"m being cool by being overly negative and skeptical". But so far its been rather infrequent, the majority of the posts here are rather decent, peaceful and at worst, mildly heated.

Also, I still find it hard to believe that some actually thought the "uproar" regarding the Nominal thingie as serious. It was obvious that its all in good fun. If anything, it only highlights how passionate the community is regarding the game.

[Mchawkeye]

FinnMcKool, on 02 March 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Are you sayin only Brits should get that ,,boy am I gonna start a Flammen thread now.

Uh, why would only 'Brits' get that?

We Scottish use pound sterling, like the rest of the UK. For how much longer, well, that's a question...

[Spooky]

Mchawkeye, on 02 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Spooky, I feel like you read, maybe, every third line of my posts.

Why do you think that?

Mchawkeye, on 02 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

All I'm suggesting, in the plainest possible terms, is that we consider that there are people, working very hard, for something great.

Yes, and that consideration should lead to constructive, friendly criticism and discussion, not self-censorism. If something is important to you, you'll want to discuss it. You should not omit something from being discussed, that is important to you, because someone else might think it is not important. The devs will then decide, whether it is something that should be changed, implemented, etc. or, as Garth points out, the Community Manager will be the first filter of these things.

Mchawkeye, on 02 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

And perhaps, nitpicking at such things (whether you agree to my examples or otherwise) might possibly not be very nice for them.

That is your view on the matter, but don't try to impose that view on others. Also, it does not make a difference if it's "nitpicking" or another, seemingly important matter. In both cases it "might possibly not be very nice for them". So this cannot be criteria.

Mchawkeye, on 02 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

I am not saying do not criticise. I am not saying do not discuss. I am simply saying be nice, be conscientious.

That's not what you said so far, but if that is the only thing you want to convey to people, then say just that . That's reasonable of course and, hell, it should be a given for anyone anyway (but sadly it isn't).

Edited by Spooky, 03 March 2012 - 01:50 AM.

[Miles Tails Prower]

Starting to cross the line when it is suggested that Battlech(or any other science fiction series) is better than Warhammer 40,000. Competitive is an acceptable description.

In other news.

Don't forget that the point of the fan base is to nit pick and break everything down into its most base elements and argue about it. That is part of being human, every fan base has it, and it is still valuable input to the video game producers. This forum's decorum is normal.

Edited by Miles Tails Prower, 03 March 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[Mchawkeye]

Spooky, on 03 March 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Why do you think that?

Because of this:

Quote

That's not what you said so far, but if that is the only thing you want to convey to people, then say just that . That's reasonable of course and, hell, it should be a given for anyone anyway (but sadly it isn't).

That is exactly what I said...many other people seemed to have got the point Spooky. I am making an honest suggestion to be nice to the people who are making this game, and based on what Garth said, some people can be a little too...terse, on occasion.

Miles Tails Prower, on 03 March 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Starting to cross the line when it is suggested that Battlech(or any other science fiction series) is better than Warhammer 40,000. Competitive is an acceptable description.

In other news.

Don't forget that the point of the fan base is to nit pick and break everything down into its most base elements and argue about it. That is part of being human, every fan base has it, and it is still valuable input to the video game producers. This forum's decorum is normal.

I'll bite..why is stating a preference a line to cross?

Also that is absolutely not the point of a fan base. fan bases should discuss and appreciate, not destroy and aggressively pick things. apart.
Of course, they do. Which is a terribly sad state of affairs, and one that I am humbly suggesting we at least try to avoid here...

[Spooky]

Mchawkeye, on 03 March 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

That is exactly what I said...many other people seemed to have got the point Spooky. I am making an honest suggestion to be nice to the people who are making this game, and based on what Garth said, some people can be a little too...terse, on occasion.

Sorry, but that does not come across at all in your posts that way, at least not solely. In fact, in your original post you specifically say:

Mchawkeye, on 02 March 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

All I am saying is, whilst the detail matter (and you know what? I want the computer to say nominal too...) I just feel we have to take stock of what is really important. Like game play. Seeing the HUD matters. Seeing the graphical fidelity matters, game play concepts like the (potentially) brilliant dual reticules matter.
In the long term, what a computer announces really doesn't.
So am I out of place asking us all to go easy on the devs on some of the less...game breaking...issues, and lets concentrate on the elements that really make a difference to the game.

i.e. pointing out, that those little things are not important, should not have been discussed in the first place. You are not conveying, to simply be nice and reasonable and do constructive criticism. Instead you are saying, that "unimportant" things should not be discussed, because in your view that is not a nice thing to do and you declare what is "unimportant" by giving examples.

[Mchawkeye]

yes, Spooky, and you didn't really get that, which is fine, questioned it, which is fine, and I explained it.

In fact,I believe I put it as simply as I could at one point.

You want it simpler?

Nitpicking bad. Make game making people feel less good. So go easier on nitpicking. Be nicer people. Spread happiness. Spread joy. Sleep better. Lead better lives. Be better people. Buy fish and other foods rich in omega 3.

But that is simply terrible English, and I do not condone it's use.

my opinion has not changed, I have simply expanded upon it.

[Spooky]

Good job at getting condescending, Mchawkeye. I don't really think that level of conversation suits you, or so I thought...

Mchawkeye, on 03 March 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Nitpicking bad.

That is simply your view on the matter. Since you want people to

Mchawkeye, on 02 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

be nice, be conscientious.

and you think that "nitpicking" is "bad" or not "nice", you also want people to refrain from doing that. I am simply pointing out, that not everyone will view it the same way as you and that they still might care about these things a great deal, so that they want to discuss is in a nice and conscientious manner.

[FinnMcKool]

OK here it is , The DEVs read this stuff, and thats absolutely Awesome,
and WE who want to give our ideas and stuff (and we havent all been
Here as long as some) to the DEVs

I think its to the DEVs credit that we can Opine.

I dont expect all my ideas or even any (dropship-multicolored HUD) to be adapted
But nun will if I/we dont say anything, and then who would be to blame?

I think its clear that they need any info if nothing else they might get a good laugh
out of it. Info in any way shape or form has value, not to say we should abuse The
opportunity (ok maybe for a good laugh now and then) or the DEVs.

I just want to Say to the DEVs you are GREAT !

[Insidious Johnson]

@ OP, they like to tease us. It is all by design. What you see now is not necessarily what you get later. That being said, I'd pay money in the online store for videos of Paul getting beaten like a rented mule by all his ex-girlfriends. Ahem, PGI, take note.

[Mchawkeye]

Spooky, on 03 March 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Good job at getting condescending, Mchawkeye. I don't really think that level of conversation suits you, or so I thought...


That is simply your view on the matter. Since you want people to

and you think that "nitpicking" is "bad" or not "nice", you also want people to refrain from doing that. I am simply pointing out, that not everyone will view it the same way as you and that they still might care about these things a great deal, so that they want to discuss is in a nice and conscientious manner.

That is my view on the matter, "simply" isn't a part of it.
You are of course correct. Not everyone will view it the same way. Which is perhaps why this thread is here, so that those people, whom ever they may be, might consider what they write and that it might have a negative impact on the emotions of the people working hard on the game they have decided to rip apart.
And even though, EVEN THOUGH! you care about those things, maybe you should, just this once, let them slide...so as to be "nice"... to the people working hard on the game they have decided to rip apart.
You must, on some level realise that some of the things people are complaining about have very little impact of the success of the game as a whole. The computer could say "All Systems: Fish" at the end of the start up sequence and it would not change the ballistics profile of an a/c 20, which arguably has more impact (heh) on how well the game plays and how much fun it is. This, in my view, makes it more important and thus more relevant to extended discourse.

And you are probably going to tell me that it more "important" to "me" as the computer is more "important" to "somebody else" and yes, again I could not argue. But import can have standards, and it might help for people to think about that before they complain about the fact that the pilot isn't, apparently, wearing shorts and a vest.

But you are right. And nothing I say here will change the whole forum. People have their views and will insist that they are relevant and important, but that is not the point. Their message of pernikitiness carries as much philosophical weight as this one. Only my message is happier. And I happen to think gaiety is a more positive atmosphere.

You know that freedom of speech thing? It's equally a freedom to say nothing, to think before you speak.

[Spooky]

Mchawkeye, on 04 March 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

You must, on some level realise that some of the things people are complaining about have very little impact of the success of the game as a whole. The computer could say "All Systems: Fish" at the end of the start up sequence and it would not change the ballistics profile of an a/c 20, which arguably has more impact (heh) on how well the game plays and how much fun it is. This, in my view, makes it more important and thus more relevant to extended discourse.

Oh sure, but where do you draw the line? Technically, many things related to BattleTech are just cosmetics and "not important". You could name the A/C 20 Bananahamic 124 instead, the Atlas will be named Umlüx and look like a twisted Optimus Prime, the, renamed, Kitty Cat Class Dropship could look like an A380... none of that is really important for actual gameplay.

What would be the point of making a franchise game, if we would not point out little, non-gameplay related things in the game as well.


Do you actually think, the developers were hurt in some way, when the community simply asked or pointed out, why it said "online" instead of "nominal"? Or when we discussed the bottom door bays of the Leopard drop ship? Etc.
None of these discussions had any raging BattleTech fans that shout down the developers for what they did or did not do. These questions and discussions were made in a nice and civil manner (for the most part anyway, may be I overlooked any "bad" posts here or there).

In fact, most of the negative posts related to the trailer had nothing to do with any of these 'nitpickings'.

[LackofCertainty]

The only threads that actively annoy me on these boards are the threads that specifically "address" how certain gameplay elements are broken/unbalanced in MechWarrior: Online, despite the fact that the creators of said threads have never played the game, nor even seen someone else play a build of the game.

That is silly.

It is one thing to say "I think that arm's shouldn't pop when my LT/RT gets destroyed." That's feedback, and it's something for the devs to consider. It's another to say, "MW:O will be unbalanced, because you can take out a person's LT/RT easily and get a free arm."

(Not to pick on the people who want to keep their arms, but it was the most recent thread I could think of where someone made bold, "this is broken, fix it!" claims about a game they have never played nor seen played.)


Edit: The devs need to hurry up and release their GDC footage already! Then the trolls can nitpick the gameplay apart and claim that they are justified in doing so because they watched said footage.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 04 March 2012 - 01:54 AM.

[Mchawkeye]

Can I just point out that the whole systems nominal debate is a small one, but it seems to be the one we are focusing on here. I am using this as the example at hand, not the be all and end all of my argument.

Hurt? no.

Annoyed? Perhaps. AGAIN it isn't discussion that bothers me. One or two people saying "it should say nominal" is one thing. The devs coming right back and say "it will, we didn't have time"" is great...but then the following twenty posts saying "it should say nominal" are arguably unnecessary and pointless. They already have their answer. If those twenty people had just thought,

"well, I want to voice my opinion, but I already have an answer too it...maybe I'll just leave it this time; I'm sure the devs don't need their mistakes or whatever pointed out over and over and over again..."

Can you not just see the Devs behind the scenes as yet another person suggests that the computer should have said nominal screaming at their monitor "But we already told you! Read the thread! How many times! AAARRRRGGGHHHH" <throws monitor, computer, desk chair and self out of window>

There were whole threads started in honour of systems nominal. days after everything had been settled.

Is this not too much, I ask? Do we not think this would make anyone want to bang there heads of a desk?

Or is it that I expect too much, my standards are too high?

[Spooky]

Mchawkeye, on 04 March 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Annoyed? Perhaps. AGAIN it isn't discussion that bothers me. One or two people saying "it should say nominal" is one thing. The devs coming right back and say "it will, we didn't have time"" is great...but then the following twenty posts saying "it should say nominal" are arguably unnecessary and pointless. They already have their answer. If those twenty people had just thought,

Of course most follow up posts were completely unnecessary and pointless. They happen because people either did not know, that this has been brought up before, or they didn't know that it was already answered by the devs. That is a different issue and has nothing to do with nitpicking, which you think is bad.

Mchawkeye, on 04 March 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

"well, I want to voice my opinion, but I already have an answer too it...maybe I'll just leave it this time; I'm sure the devs don't need their mistakes or whatever pointed out over and over and over again..."

While there may be people who deliberately point it out again, even though they know it has been discussed and addressed by the devs before, I'd say most people are just too lazy to search for such an answer by the devs. You also cannot blame them for that, because it is difficult to be on top of every post happening anywhere on the forum. The devs later on posted answers to the frequently asked questions in a separate, pinned thread. But a pinned thread does not guarantee, that everyone will read it.

Mchawkeye, on 04 March 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Can you not just see the Devs behind the scenes as yet another person suggests that the computer should have said nominal screaming at their monitor "But we already told you! Read the thread! How many times! AAARRRRGGGHHHH" <throws monitor, computer, desk chair and self out of window>

There were whole threads started in honour of systems nominal. days after everything had been settled.

Is this not too much, I ask? Do we not think this would make anyone want to bang there heads of a desk?

It's not too much to ask, but such things can happen regardless of the issue at hand. It doesn't matter if it's an unimportant nitpick or a much more important gameplay discussion.

Mchawkeye, on 04 March 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Or is it that I expect too much, my standards are too high?

No, your standards are not too high, at least not to me. I just find your distinction between 'important' and 'not-important' discussion aggravating . Again, the issues you bring up here can happen with any discussion.

[Mchawkeye]

I have made my opinion clear, expanding on and refining my point. You can't seem to understand that it goes beyond nitpicking and is as much about being thoughtful of others (especially the devs) and maintaining a positive atmosphere.
I do not believe you have caught on to what I was saying in the fullest sense.

If you don't agree with me that is just dandy, probably 90% of the forum who have come here to pull things apart with out the where with all to consider what they are saying and who you are saying it too, never mind using the search function.

I fully admit what I am trying to put across is a utopian ideal, where people don't complain about the niggly small things that annoy them but instead discuss the big issues that impact us all, all the time moving conversation forward, remaining educated generally and about the topic at hand, listening to others and realising that it is a game, something fun and entertaining and nothing to get wound up about, really.

I know this is sadly somewhat anathema to the current state of fandom in general. I recognise this, But I dare to dream.

I am sorry that I aggravate you, Spooky. I cannot say you aggravate me. I was not put on this earth to annoy anyone other than my sisters, so I take back everything I have said, It was obviously all bobbins.

My apologies.

Edited by Mchawkeye, 04 March 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[Spooky]

Mchawkeye, on 04 March 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

I have made my opinion clear, expanding on and refining my point. You can't seem to understand that it goes beyond nitpicking and is as much about being thoughtful of others (especially the devs) and maintaining a positive atmosphere.
I do not believe you have caught on to what I was saying in the fullest sense.

That is simply no true. You say that you only want to convey to others, to be thoughtful etc., that it goes beyond nitpicking etc., yet, even in the same post, you revert back to nitpicking as a thing of un-thoughtful ness:

Mchawkeye, on 04 March 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

I fully admit what I am trying to put across is a utopian ideal, where people don't complain about the niggly small things that annoy them but instead discuss the big issues that impact us all, all the time moving conversation forward, remaining educated generally and about the topic at hand, listening to others and realising that it is a game, something fun and entertaining and nothing to get wound up about, really.

To me it seems you only try to disguise your issues with these "nitpicking" threads by making a statement of how you should be thoughtful, think before you post, etc. At least that what it looks like partially.


I of course do not disagree with the notion about discussing things in a civil manner, thinking before posting, being nice to each other. It's just the fact that you seem to throw "uncivil, not nice discussions" and "nitpicking discussions" into the same bin. Even though discussions, which might consider as valuable ant not "nitpicking" may also turn into uncivil, idiotic, rage-filled threads.

It does not matter what you discuss, these values should apply to every discussion equally and certain discussions should not be considered "bad" beforehand.

[GDL Germ]

You two have really taken over this thread. Maybe argue in pm's or somewhere else?

[Sug]

I've got the "All systems nominal" sound clip in My Documents if you need it. Yep.

Edited by Sug, 04 March 2012 - 10:43 AM.

[Mchawkeye]

Yes Spooks. I agree with you.

GDL Germ, on 04 March 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

You two have really taken over this thread. Maybe argue in pm's or somewhere else?

Or you could join in, perhaps?