137 replies to this topic

[Princess79]

I have had a concern for a long time in regards to MWO, and I decided to put it to the community to either assuage or confirm those concerns.

When I first heard about a new Mechwarrior game, I became really excited, and I was really looking forward to it. As a long time Mechwarrior and battletech fan, I thought a new game that departed from the Mechassault style would be great. However, as I read the forums and perused the site, my excitement has turned into dread. I saw people arguing over minute details, polarization of factions, and a very detailed system of "role warfare."

While these are well and good gameplay features, and sound really interesting on paper, I feel that these features will ultimately serve to alienate potential players from entering the community. By implementing this almost byzantine maze of features and gameplay elements, it seems to me that only the most dedicated of players will be able to derive enjoyment from this game. When all of the weapons and choices of customization become so detailed, it becomes a headache to manage. With so many factions with so much back story, the sheer scale of the universe is enough to overwhelm potential players. The role warfare, while really interesting in theory, I feel in practice will exclude players that do not have the time or desire to join a dedicated team.

My impression has always been that Battletech is not very approachable a hobby. The rules in battletech are extremely complicated and intricate, the universe is detailed in dozens of books that must be read in order, and the community is very close knit.

My final question to you all is, "How is MWO not just more of the same?" In my opinion, MWO will serve the community admirably, but by it's sheer complexity, will alienate many potential players, and ultimately keep the BT community in equilibrium, instead of allowing it to thrive with a new generation of Battletech enthusiasts.

I invite everyone to discuss this topic. Prove to me that MWO will be inviting to new players, or tell me why it is important to maintain complexity over accesibilty.
森小熊

[Adridos]

First of all, I am one of the "newcomers" and see how far I got? Everyone can jump in if he wants.

And then for the "complexity". It is just talk of a proffesional.

As an example. If you talk to a scientist, he will talk with you for good 5 minutes, using terms you do not understand and you will end up just approving to all of his questions. Then, because you are confused, you will ask someone else about the thing that the scientist told you, he will say just, that you should take a bath, because you stink (yeah, there are better examples).

Simply, they make simple things look complex, for them to look wiser. Simple human behavior.

[Helmer]

Prove to you? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Try it, for free. If it's too complex, Don't play.

It's not nearly as complex as some simulations out there. (Basing this of off the DEV blogs, and hours of gameplay with DCS and ARMA2)


This is Battletech/Mechwarrior. Resource management in terms of heat, ammo, etc is PART of the game. There are other "mech" type games coming out that would be more suitable for others if MWO is too complex.

There's MENT to be a certain level of complexity.



If the Original post was "Do you think MWO it TOO complex for your average gamer" I can understand the post. But "How is MWO not more of the same" gameplay , complexity, elements is a redundant question. It is more of the same because its SUPPOSED to be more of them same. But better.
And you needn't get bogged down in the fiction in order to jump in and play a few rounds. You can concentrate simply on the Pew Pew gameplay if you wish.

No disrespect intended to the OP. But why do you want to change the thing that you are trying to emulate?

Edited by Helmer, 05 March 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[Scar]

You can't be or become an enthusiast if you're not interesting in details. Such people called "casuals" - don't mix them up with enthusiasts.

And no - we don't need another stupid console game for casuals. It may be not a canonical in every detail, such as a mech's exterior, but it can't be simplified to the level of console games.

[metro]

森小熊, on 05 March 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

I have had a concern for a long time in regards to MWO, and I decided to put it to the community to either assuage or confirm those concerns.

When I first heard about a new Mechwarrior game, I became really excited, and I was really looking forward to it. As a long time Mechwarrior and battletech fan, I thought a new game that departed from the Mechassault style would be great. However, as I read the forums and perused the site, my excitement has turned into dread. I saw people arguing over minute details, polarization of factions, and a very detailed system of "role warfare."

While these are well and good gameplay features, and sound really interesting on paper, I feel that these features will ultimately serve to alienate potential players from entering the community. By implementing this almost byzantine maze of features and gameplay elements, it seems to me that only the most dedicated of players will be able to derive enjoyment from this game. When all of the weapons and choices of customization become so detailed, it becomes a headache to manage. With so many factions with so much back story, the sheer scale of the universe is enough to overwhelm potential players. The role warfare, while really interesting in theory, I feel in practice will exclude players that do not have the time or desire to join a dedicated team.

My impression has always been that Battletech is not very approachable a hobby. The rules in battletech are extremely complicated and intricate, the universe is detailed in dozens of books that must be read in order, and the community is very close knit.

My final question to you all is, "How is MWO not just more of the same?" In my opinion, MWO will serve the community admirably, but by it's sheer complexity, will alienate many potential players, and ultimately keep the BT community in equilibrium, instead of allowing it to thrive with a new generation of Battletech enthusiasts.

I invite everyone to discuss this topic. Prove to me that MWO will be inviting to new players, or tell me why it is important to maintain complexity over accesibilty.
森小熊

Easliy answered.

MWO is being developed by Battletech/Mechwarrior fans. It will be done right.

I suggest you go to the thread, "New Players start here"

It will get you up to speed, and put some of your concerns to rest.

Welcome to MWO

[Steadfast]

Just asking, whats complicated in rolling 2 D6 and looking the result up in a table?
Thats about it regarding game mechanics for the boardgame IIRC. I expect nothing less from the Online Game though, you sit in your mech, you walk him out of your garage/ dropship/ etc, you shoot other 'mechs.
The complicated stuff all comes if you want to go to a deeper level. Which means you start to read/ view videos etc.

I don't fear for this game as long as the basics are simple enough.
~S~
Daniel

[Sears]

I'm a newcomer to the franchise, and I've made some gaff comments through ignorance and been referred to as 'cannon fodder' by another member of the forum. I mean there's a big history to battletech and fans of the various iterations know their stuff, and it's interesting to look up mechs people mention on the battletech wiki. I suspect the game we will see will be the best compromise between fan service and playability from a newcomer fresh to the world of Battletech and Mechwarrior.

[metro]

森小熊 is this symbol, Korean , Japenese or Chinese??


it translates differently in all 3 languages.

[Tryg]

Much of the complexity being discussed over a great many of the polls, won't greatly impact the playability of the game by new players. It's more a desire for certain aspects of the game to fit the timeline the fan-base knows and loves. There's also a lot of push to fix some of the severe flaws that existed in earlier mechwarrior releases. I am quite certain a player with zero knowledge of the battletech universe will be able to hop in and start wreaking havoc.

As for role warfare, the gaming community as a whole is starting to lean more towards team-based games, and shying away from the simplistic everyone runs around spraying rounds left and right like a lunatic style. The role system does not /lock/ new players into unfamiliar styles of play, merely sets up a system to reward playing as a team. And as with all games like this, a team of folks working together to complete their objective will defeat a disorganized group each out to do their own thing.

So yes, there are a lot of intricate details to the game, many of which can wind up being outright ignored by a new player, while catering nicely to the more die-hards among us. Heat-management for example, sounds complex and scary...really all heat management means is not leaning into the trigger for the duration of the match. If you can successfully play any number of modern titles, I don't see this being a troublesome game to learn, even without any knowledge of battletech.

[Sears]

I'm sure the game will have a training mode to show players controls and the usual, i also hope it has a run down of the different weight categories. It would be good to get a flavour of a mech and see which fits with my particular play style before buying one for matches.

[Colorfinger]

The things that are complex are, in general, optional parts of the game. You don't have to delve into the history of BT to pilot the mech in front of you. You don't have to understand why a design is there or who designed it... what house built it, and why you should hate that house etc. If you don't want that detail, you'll log in, select your mech, and stomp around. If you wan that detail you will hover around the Messageboard, join a unit or faction, discuss the details over the com, and full immerse yourself.

The game play and controls won't make it too difficult for someone to play and enjoy the game. The message board, on the other hand, I can see being intimidating, but that shouldn't hold back the game play for the casual gamers.

[DaZur]

I liken the BT universe and Mechwarrior in specific to air-combat simulations...

They both are steeped in historical canon, have a zealot member base are both very tech-heavy from a pure war-equipment standpoint and both have relatively steep learning-curves if one it to effectively be proficient in the craft of being a Pilot.

While I understand the desire to core the genre to make it more accessible to the casual gamer, the base community that will ultimaly support and sustain the game will not sacrifice the genre-specific nuances to gain what would amount to a very small increase of players that do not have the patience to learn to finer details and mechanics.

[Mordhar]

森小熊, on 05 March 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

...

You want MWO to be another FPS, I want to see a good simulator, someone else wants ponies/little rabbits/purple wookies.
Unfortunately to us (and fortunately to majority of players) MWO appears to be something in-between. Reasonably dumbed down to allow casual gamers to play it and proudly call themselves “hardcore simulator players”. And complex enough to not make very angry people, who actually knows what a true simulator looks like.

[Sears]

I think all the backstory is half the fun of it. And why i am intrigued to see how the persistent world and events will unfold. It's definitely going to be a team based game and the team that works well together will be the team that more often than not will come out on top. What i hope doesn't happen is builds like on other online multiplayer builds when someone discovers the best build for an Atlas and from then on everyone uses an Atlas with a specific build because using any other armaments gives you a disadvantage. It's the experimentation with different loadouts that is a part of the game i will be looking forward to.


Have the Devs said that it's going to be a hardcore simulator? I've looked over the faqs and such and i can't quite tell how they are pitching the game.

[AlanEsh]

MWO isn't going to be that complex. Sure, the forums are a bit daunting right now, because the only thing to do here is speculate crazily about a thousand unknowns.
Piranha isn't going to make this game as inaccessible as you fear.

[Princess79]

I probably presented my concern to broadly to capture the exact nature of my concern. The problem does not necessarily lie with mechanical elements of piloting the mech. As several people have stated, it is a process of learning them overtime, and looking for the appropriate information. I can agree that a level of simulation and complexity on this level is interesting, and will be a lot of fun.

However, it is not these mechanical issues I am worried about, it is the "TEAM" dynamic present. This is not necessarily a question of complexity in terms of heat, ammo, and customization. Rather, it is the complexity of the community. When a new player approaches this game, the only way for them to be effective will be to simply work in a team, and this is reasonable. Here is where my concerns stem from. Instead of being freely able to join a team, in the context of MWO, players will be expected to know the complexities, rather than being allowed to learn amongst a team.

I used to play project reality and forgotten hope 2. Both have a focus on team dynamics (Project Reality more so than Forgotten Hope). However, it was also an inviting atmosphere. when I was a new player, I could count on more experienced players to give me a helping hand and accommodate me. However, from what I have observed concerning MWO, players that do not immediately pick up the or have prior knowledge have the strong possibility of being shunned.

A good example of this is this topic. Only the 5th post in provided a constructive response that suggested where a new player should begin, and this was by a mod. A few members posted derisive comments regarding console gaming. many of the responses to this topic simply stated that such complexity is what make the game good, not answering my question of how MWO is not going to be just more of the same.

I do realize that wording my question as such was vague, so I will propose it again. "How will MWO make the battletech universe inviting?" How will MWO nurture new players and allow them to enjoy this game? As one person stated, a tutorial will probably be present. However, a tutorial is not enough for a universe as detailed as battletech. Will you, as members of the community welcome new players, hold their hands and mentor them? or will you shun them until they have the requisite knowledge and skills to become immersed in the universe.

In the middle of a match, if a new player is running and gunning, and not serving the team well, will you shout at them, or will you offer them a helping hand?

From what I have seen, the more probably situation is the former, and that is what concerns me.
森小熊

P.S. The name is supposed to be Japanese, but it not an actual name

Edited by 森小熊, 05 March 2012 - 07:38 AM.

[Cochise]

I've played Mechwarrior since the first pc game came out and I have played Eve Online since beta. The same concerns were voiced about Eve Online. It is an incredibly complex game. The thing is, just as there are a group of players that just want to jump in the action. There is a large group that loves the details and views them as immersive.

With Eve Online, you don't have to get into the details to play, but you will only be scratching the surface of the game if you don't. I think MWO will be the same type of thing. Some people will never delve into the details and still play, others will be turned off, others will become engrossed by all the possibilities. That last group is what made Eve Online grow into such a compelling game. The people that really got into it helped create a community that newbies wanted to get involved with because it was fun and interesting.

There was always a group that basically just wanted quake 3 with ships in space. Always will be. There are other games for that but hopefully MWO will be much much more. I say bring it on. One thing is evident from Eve though, the developers have to constantly change the game landscape to keep it balanced and interesting. It is an ongoing thing, it never stops. The moment it stops, someone discovers the magic bullet and everyone gravitates towards that. So new things and game balancing are an ongoing challenge.

[Krubarax]

When reading your post, Battlefield (3) emidiantly comes to my mind.
Role Warfare - check (Medics, Supportgunners, Engineers or AT-soldiers, and Recon players)
Many Weapon choices and customization - check (there are over 80 differebnt weapons, most of them have 10 different attachments to combine. Also, there are 30 vehicles, each vehicle class with about 13 different add-ons to customize with)

And I do not see nobody "scared away" from that.
All it means is that players can play the game the way and style that they prefer.

This is going to be so sweeet. Trust me

[Sinitron]

It depends. Personally, I tell people they suck when they are so bad it's just frustrating. Sure, you could have lousy aim, or dumbfire missiles or something, that's not a big deal as long as you at the very least try to synergize with the team. If someone runs around solo into clusters of enemies and dies over and over while refusing to listen to their squadmates' pleas to stick to the team because they're 'trying to learn the game', they're probably too ignorant to learn anything. That's not someone I would want on my team, and neither would you - it gets even worse if they speak languages other than English, making it impossible to communicate with them.

If someone new sticks to the team, is polite and asks questions, tries to follow the plan and shoots in the general direction of the enemy, they'd probably be more than welcome by just about anyone.

[Sears]

I've not been on the forums long but i would say in terms of community spirit and guiding new players it's best to check out a few of the recruitment pages. I've looked in some of them and most are reaching out to new players and i would say those would be the best to go for. I like the idea of being a lone wolf pilot to begin with, but it is tempting to throw my hat in with people who i know would show me the ropes.