2003 replies to this topic

[Agasutin]

Technoviking, on 02 December 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

Give all the Mechs "Problems". Those real, canon fluff problems where sometimes your weapon doesn't work, or your torso gets stuck? Yeah, put those in, then allow me to buy "Upgrades" to the gyro, or that weapon system, where it doesn't jam. You get Canon, Fluff, and hey, you wanna take your ghetto ride with no gyro upgrade and possibly get your torso twist stuck in battle? (Takes a power override to fix) That's your problem, mines pimp for $4.00 and never locks up.

Essentially, that falls under the pay to win category.

[CeeKay Boques]

Why? its real and Battletechy! There's that guy, his torso jammed, and in the back of his mind, (while he's taking 5 seconds to reroute power from the weapons to the engine to rev it up) he's not thinking "Man I should quit this junk game its not fair!" He should be thinking "I really like this Dragon. I should probably put a few bucks into tricking it out and fixing that faulty line."

You don't pay, your mech is what it is. You pay, you can trick it out a bit. Having a torso twist or weapon jam or not jam is not game breaking or pay to win. Maybe it WOULD jam in that game winning shot. And the person with the upgraded gyro didn't have that problem, and won. And you slam your headphones down. And reach for your wallet. Nothing wrong with that.

But that's how it is in the I.S. You wanna rumble around in a trashy ghetto mech? Well you can still win the day. But once in awhile, you'll wish you paid more. I'd like to see F2P mechs be rusty looking too.

You would rather that my pilot has a perk "No jammed Gyros"? Because stuffl like that is coming for your "character". So if I buy XP, I can buy that perk... what does it matter but in your mind where the money goes? If you play long enough, you can earn the Cbills to still get your upgrade on the Dragon. People who pay got it first is all.

[Black Sunder]

Personally I would pay for full and customization of a mech.

[Agasutin]

Technoviking, on 02 December 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

Why? its real and Battletechy! There's that guy, his torso jammed, and in the back of his mind, (while he's taking 5 seconds to reroute power from the weapons to the engine to rev it up) he's not thinking "Man I should quit this junk game its not fair!" He should be thinking "I really like this Dragon. I should probably put a few bucks into tricking it out and fixing that faulty line."

If it isn't available to the free players, it's a paid advantage, and to my knowledge Devs aren't promoting pay to win.

Technoviking, on 02 December 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

You don't pay, your mech is what it is. You pay, you can trick it out a bit. Having a torso twist or weapon jam or not jam is not game breaking or pay to win. Maybe it WOULD jam in that game winning shot. And the person with the upgraded gyro didn't have that problem, and won. And you slam your headphones down. And reach for your wallet. Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with it, except that part where one guy paid for an advantage.

Technoviking, on 02 December 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

You would rather that my pilot has a perk "No jammed Gyros"? Because stuffl like that is coming for your "character". So if I buy XP, I can buy that perk... what does it matter but in your mind where the money goes? If you play long enough, you can earn the Cbills to still get your upgrade on the Dragon. People who pay got it first is all.

If you propose that buying "better parts" isn't pay to win, try to include a statement that It would also be available to non-paid players for playing the game, a little before the second to last sentence in your post. It helps avoid misinterpretation of ones views.

If regular players can obtain it from playing the game, sell it in the store (to an extent).

Black Sunder, on 02 December 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

Personally I would pay for full and customization of a mech.

I'm also hoping the game is allowing full custom.

Edited by Agasutin, 02 December 2011 - 12:37 PM.

[Draco Argentum]

Haeso, on 01 December 2011 - 01:14 AM, said:

If the game intends to have any sense of economy, I'd much rather see Eve's system of buying the special currency then trading that special currency to another player in exchange for C-Bills - this gives the buyer what he wants, gives a player in game something from the shop, and prevents magicking money/'Mechs into the Economy.

This is a terrible idea. Preventing inter player trades goes a long way towards making the game less a target for hackers. The moment you put them in its worthwhile for tools to hack accounts then sell everything off for whatever price the market will bear.

With no trading hacking is far less valuable since they have to sell the whole account and thats a lot easier for the legitimate owner to reclaim, thereby shafting the **** who purchased it.

[WerewolfX]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned an airstrike or an on station Vtol to do an air strike with inferno missiles. Would be awesome to see.

[Halfinax]

/\/\/\ That would also be selling power, or a direct in game advantage, and that should not be on the table/\/\/\

Vanity effects (paint jobs, possibly MechWarrior skins, etc.), game currency, and xp/c-bill per match boosts. Basically similar to what League of Legends offers. Selling anything that provides power should be right out, and would only lead to the game failing in the long run even if it increases revenue in the short term. Nothing more frustrating for a player than only being able to access power through the use of real money. Just leads to bigger wallet equating to better chance of winning.

Edited by Halfinax, 03 December 2011 - 01:21 AM.

[Ran Ito]

If reasonably priced I would pay for just about anything that especially catches my eye in the mwo cash shop. Can't help it, it's mechwarrior!

[TheUncle]

Finally somebody who really knows about F2P and has some realistic views on the money which should be spent.

I agree FULLY with the first post, maybe there should be an option for 3$ or more to make your own paint job, but that can be tricky from a technical standpoint.

Mechs should be buyable with real money as well - that must apply for many people who just want to play their beloved MadCat or Timberwolf ( ), but these things can in no way be exclusive or the system will fail, and everyone MUST be able to buy any mech just by investing play time.

Same thing applies to "Hangar Space". Why should i continue playing if I can't try out new mechs? No reason at all.

However, XP boosts and most importantly Paint Jobs really can be the things that are exclusive for money-investors. I'd do that if they are really creative, and I really don't mind if anyone else has one, because it does not change the gameplay (maybe visibility issues...?)

[Halfinax]

I'm very against selling hangar space, but then I'm assuming they 'Mechs are going to be ala carte akin to League of Legends with rotating free to play 'Mechs with the option to buy with either in game or wallet currency. This seems to make the most sense to me as it gives the players the option of trying out new 'Mechs each week or biweekly, and prevents any kind of disappointment from saving up in game currencies for 2-3 weeks to buy a 'Mech only to discover you disdain it.

[Haeso]

Draco Argentum, on 03 December 2011 - 12:37 AM, said:

This is a terrible idea. Preventing inter player trades goes a long way towards making the game less a target for hackers. The moment you put them in its worthwhile for tools to hack accounts then sell everything off for whatever price the market will bear.

With no trading hacking is far less valuable since they have to sell the whole account and thats a lot easier for the legitimate owner to reclaim, thereby shafting the **** who purchased it.

The terrible idea is basing game design decisions based on such a small issue. Don't be a dumb-*** with your account info and you'll be fine. The overwhelming majority of account comprising is because of people who click links they shouldn't and use the same account/password everywhere.

[IxxxI]

I would willingly pay for:

• XP boost
  
• better Techs for my 'Mechs maintenance - to decrease repair costs and get access to advanced technologies + full customization
  
• additional space on some 'house' planet like Outreach for ammo/weapons/'Mechs/items (Points 2 &3 could be realized like subcontract with one of famous Merc Corp or some War Regiment of Great Houses)
  
• Aesthetic modifications for 'Mech: cockpit modifications, custom decals (template based), custom parts for 'Mechs which doesn't result as in-game advantage
  
• C-Bills for real money - to prevent gold-sellers activity
  
• DLC packs with 'Mechs - that just gives opportunity to get a 'Mech from DLC, but doesn't mean, that you can BUY a 'Mech
  
• Real worlds items like: posters, 'Mech models, T-shirts & so on

List of items I would prefer NOT to have in game:

• 'Mechs or their parts for real money - IMO each item should be available to all players, but could cost different efforts to achieve it
  
• C-Bills income boost - no real mechanic behind that, I'd prefer to level up 'faction standing' for better contracts conditions instead of that
  
• Pilot 'respec' - I prefer no-respec EVE scheme, think on what you are doing
  
• Advanced ammo or any other items (especially 'Mechs themselves, lol) which could result as in-game advantage
  
• Voice packs - IMO 'Mechs produced on different IS factories should have different voice schemes by default

Besides micro-transaction shop I would also like to buy some boxed Special Edition of the game


Let me share few more thoughts on that topic:
IMO mercs in general can not have access to new 'Mechs or technologies, so we get to pilot old pieces of rugged, scratched, burnt, fixed hundreds of times 'Mechs which cockpits soaked with sweat and blood of previous owners. Only most successful mercs could afford best equipment via 'high factions standing' or better salvage rights.
Speaking about 'Mechs for real cash, that leads to broken balance to me. Remember WoT games with 8-10 T59? I hope that I won't see in MWO mass of players piloting iconic Timber Wolf/Mad Cat because they bought it. Clan tech should be damn hard to obtain for mercs and even more tough to maintain it. On second thought, some special/rare IS 'Mechs could be obtained via Corp (guild) missions and require coordinated efforts of group of people as well as some resources for preparation. Solo players could try their skills on Solaris like gladiator games for rare loot. That will motivate players, plus piloting such a 'Mech will be a symbol of status.
I think I'll start some voting polls in Suggestions section in order to help Devs to collect some useful statistics.

Edited by IxxxI, 04 December 2011 - 01:43 AM.

[Draco Argentum]

Haeso, on 03 December 2011 - 05:32 AM, said:

The terrible idea is basing game design decisions based on such a small issue. Don't be a dumb-*** with your account info and you'll be fine. The overwhelming majority of account comprising is because of people who click links they shouldn't and use the same account/password everywhere.

Please, RSA is a major security company and they were compromised and lost critical data. If you think random gamers are less vulnerable you're delusional.

[CeeKay Boques]

I think you're wrong, small advantages aren't "Pay to win" or overcoming a disadvantage isn't "Winning". But I'm sure plenty of people will argue that even the slightest "advantage" is P2W... I guess i"m not against P2W then. In real BattleTech richer Merc companies have better mechs/equipment. No need to post the Dev comment against P2W... I'm talking SLIGHT slight changes, especially to counter Fluff flaws. I give them money, I fix my mech, it works flawlessly. You don't, your mech has it's canon flaws. For those of you that do not want to give them your money, you can have a rust-bucket.

Being afraid of P2W is a good idea. However, I want them to make 6 different versions of the UAC/AC 10 by company though, and then sell the separately. All do the same damage but deliver it and perform their shots in a different way. Someone will scream P2W when they get hit by one of these, just because they died. I don't know how to fix that.

However, I am VERY against power creep, ESPECIALLY in this game. I would hate for the Chimera to never, ever, be used because the Uziel out classes it, or the ShadowCat after that. That breaks the universe to me.


However, if they don't sell mechs or equipment, I hope they sell Toys or posters or miniatures or something outside the game, because I could really care less about my paint job, or any other aesthetic thing, and I desperately want to give them all my money, but I won't do it for hats. I just won't. I won't buy XP. And if you can buy CBills, that's P2W.

[Snark]

I have a deep wallet for this game and i like to shop.

[Major Crash]

Man, This is the scariest topic on the board for the poor. I mean those who just having I-Net is about it. All speculation until we see it, but just listening to this kind of already makes me feel like I will be slotted into the lighest free Mech for a long long time to come. My only defence against those w 20ea $3 upgrades may be speed.
Wonder if they will sell me a Bullseye paintjob? Probably to late to change my handle.

[Blackfire1]

I have to disagree heavily with you TechnoViking. Buying something that clears a disadvantage that everyone else has is like getting buying a flu shot and fighting when everyone else is equally sick. Natural advantages and disadvantages along with player skill is what dictates a level playing field.

Now I could understand if on a separate note taking a damaged mech into battle would put you in a pickle but that's more common sense. Don't fight with broken equipment.

A good cash shop is not items that give obvious amounts of power unless severely minor. And even then to a very small spectrum of options. Ex: The hula girl that costs $5.00 but only give a point of two in a given skill. Almost useless at later levels but a very small advantage in lower ones. Depending on the scale and the skill. However you would only be able to have one equipped.

The only reason Buying different or "rare" mech variants is that they don't dictate a level of power. They only dictate a playing style. If I love my Orion but I hate energy weapons buying an all ammo type of variant wouldn't make my overpowered in the least. It would define my mech to a very specific play style. A play style that if I'm willing to shell out $3-$7 for I probably enjoy greatly.

TiredOne, As I mentioned before technically I'm below the federal poverty line. So if I'm going to shell out money for an item it should be something I'm willing to pay. (Hopefully you can tell what I meant now by the title) Not everyone can or will buy something. However being able to buy things that make you unique, Items that give you a change in play style without making your over powered, And items that give you a temporary boost because you don't have the months of time to put into a game are all F2P stapples. The more options a player has that are not mandatory but cost money the more likely your going to find something someone is welling to spend money one. Even if its $2-$5.

So be honest I don't think you'll have to worry about getting into an assault mech if you want one. Getting a special version that fits your play style will probably cost a metric F-ton of c-bills for specialized customization (which fits into cannon) or spend a few bucks for a mech you like. Win, Win, Win.

Edited by Blackfire1, 04 December 2011 - 01:58 AM.

[Halfinax]

Even a "slight" advantage is selling power. It turns newcomers off if they feel they HAVE to spend money to be better. That is a bad business model. Sell pure vanity items, and instant gratification (i.e, the option to buy that Catapult now rather than waiting to save the C-bills through regular play), and the common and basic grind booster (i.e. 4 match XP bonus). Making any 'Mech, or equipment that isn't vanity available only to paying players is bad. Selling power is bad. Don't do it. If it provides power, and non-paying customers can't get it without paying they leave. If they leave they don't bring their friends, and there is no chance that they will eventually spend money. More players (even if they aren't all paying) attracts more players. The more players you have the more people you have available to spend money and attract new players.

Here's a video explaining what makes microtransactions and the F2P business model work: Please watch.

[Red Beard]

Brakkyn, on 02 December 2011 - 04:16 AM, said:

I am totally against buying experience boosts, as this creates a situation where you pay real money to have an in-game effect i.e. you level faster and more quickly gain the benefits therein.

Using real money to purchase new 'Mechs--also a no. More space in a 'Mech hangar, I'm on the fence about.

Hula Girls, paint jobs, custom logos--fine, they don't affect actual gameplay. Nothing you pay real money for should.

I totally agree with Brakkyn here.

One other thing I WOULD pay real cash for is access to bigger, better maps. The game is F2P, but that does not mean you HAVE to give ALL players access to EVERY map. If they give free players 3 or 4 maps, but make 5 to 6 more unlockable through purchase, then I think they have a very fair way to generate extra revenue.

[Haeso]

Red Beard, on 04 December 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

I totally agree with Brakkyn here.

One other thing I WOULD pay real cash for is access to bigger, better maps. The game is F2P, but that does not mean you HAVE to give ALL players access to EVERY map. If they give free players 3 or 4 maps, but make 5 to 6 more unlockable through purchase, then I think they have a very fair way to generate extra revenue.

Selling maps is a terrible business strategy. It fragments your playerbase, and makes those not playing feel like they've got a worse game. It's not quite selling power, but it's not better.

I've no idea why people fall for that nonsense on Consoles, maybe it's because they don't realize how easy it is to make maps? People have been mapping with SDKs/map editors for years, for free. It's part of why I never bother with console games unless it's exclusive, and even then don't usually. Zero user generated content, and foolish DLC schemes like maps that force everyone to buy or fragments the playerbase.