181 replies to this topic

[Sideways]

Go both, stop crying over balance issues, in Mech 4 is was a simple button click, if you like 1st fine, if you like 3rd fine, but the given the option a good player is going to juggle every option he has to gain the advantage, stop crying because you refuse to do this and are getting beat. keep in mind this is based off of a game where you had a constand birds eye veiw. Is it really that big a difference if you like Halo and someone else likes Gears of War? more options = more players happy = more players stick around to support the F2P set up = the game sticking around longer and more updates.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Sideways, on 04 November 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

more options = more players happy = more players stick around to support the F2P set up = the game sticking around longer and more updates.

You forgot how MWO aims to be a skillbased pvp mech simulation.

Tabletop is a tabletop wargame, you could look at the table from under it (like it actually happens in a good company) for all anyone cares as it doesn't affect the dice.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 05 November 2011 - 12:32 AM.

[Adridos]

I think 1st person is better. People using 3rd person even just to observe get a big advantage over those, who stick with realism and a very good mech feel (as long as they do cockpits as good as those presented in the video). So you choose advantage over atmosphere and that isnt the kind of choice I think is prosperous for MW games, because there will be no one playing 1st person anymore.

[Brixx]

As it looks as this game is designed for First Person view I think there is no need for another view. Track IR... useable cockpit view, monitoring everything, detailed cockpit. MW4 cockpits were just so plain and without detail that it did not give the feeling of being in the mech. But I think they won´t make the same mistake.

[Tyrant]

FFP

But with good situational awareness tools, like radar, etc

Edited by tyrant, 05 November 2011 - 05:43 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Definatly player choice.. I know many players get motion sickness in first person mode.

I dont know exactly why it happens, But when you can focus on an avatar in the middle of the screen, it helps you stablize and not get motion sickness. Its actually a much bigger problem than most people thing, and has stoped many of gamers from playing what could of been a fun game if it wasnt for being stuck in first person.

[Gremlich Johns]

JC Daxion, on 05 November 2011 - 06:28 AM, said:

Definatly player choice.. I know many players get motion sickness in first person mode.

How do these people drive cars?

[Silent]

JC Daxion, on 05 November 2011 - 06:28 AM, said:

I dont know exactly why it happens, But when you can focus on an avatar in the middle of the screen, it helps you stablize and not get motion sickness. Its actually a much bigger problem than most people thing, and has stoped many of gamers from playing what could of been a fun game if it wasnt for being stuck in first person.

It usually has to do with a narrow field of view. I got terrible motion sickness when I'd play early first-person shooters like DOOM for long periods of time. Just the combination of fast movement and having that cramped view made me sick. It'd be nice if we could set field of view in the display options somewhere, that way people that do get motion sickness from first-person games can dial the fov range a bit higher and hopefully not have problems.

Edited by Silent, 05 November 2011 - 07:50 AM.

[Rzhanov]

Maybe it was voised earlier.
Clans do have 3rd person view. Image enchanments. It can be used as perk with all minuses to the character this tech could bear.

[Gremlich Johns]

Rzhanov, on 05 November 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

Maybe it was voised earlier.
Clans do have 3rd person view. Image enchanments. It can be used as perk with all minuses to the character this tech could bear.

the external view is not stand alone, it it is a supplement information source. All pilots rely primarily on what they see from the cockpit.

[Kell Aset]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

You probably haven't played M&M: The Dark Messiah. Let me save you 10 seconds of googling it.

Yeah it is 5 times faster.
Basically it's a matter of practice as you can reliably tell the distance between you and the other mech in close quarters.

Actually I have DM heh, finished sp campaign and played some multi(gameplay from in sp campagin made me motion sick for the first time that I can remember btw.) but game had really fun gameplay.
Better exaple would be probably Mount & Blade tho, way way waaaay more weapons of different types and it offers TPP along with FPP view. But I have no idea how hit detection works in both those games really and how reliable it is.

Edited by Kell Aset, 05 November 2011 - 08:10 AM.

[Neutron IX]

Gremlich Johns, on 05 November 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

How do these people drive cars?

As one of the people in question, I have to speak to this,

This type of motion sickness is about what the senses perceive being disproportionate to what the body feels. It is not a problem while driving a car because the senses perceive visual motion, and a physical "bouncing/swaying sensation" that is natural and relative to what the visual perception is, at the same time.

This is why 1PV video games can be a problem for so many, because the point of 1PV is to make it seem as though you are the avatar, by giving you the visual sensation, but it cannot provide the physical sensation of expected, natural, relative motion to match.

3PV does not give this same problem (though for me, even some poorly executed 3PV camera controls have also triggered reactions), in that, an on screen avatar can bounce and shake all it wants in reaction to what happens to hit, and that sensation does not transfer to the player, as well as the fact the camera often moves in relation to the perspective of the avatar on the screen, and therefore feels naturally oriented.

Now, for myself, not all 1PV games have caused this same reaction, but in every case where a 1PV game has not caused this, I have had to turn the look sensitivity of my control to the lowest setting, and it only works on roughly 50% of the games I've tried.

I'd hope that those who are so adamantly against 3PV being allowed can please keep in mind, that a 1PV that is not very specifically developed or perfectly executed to meet the needs of people like myself, risks making the game completely unplayable for us. I myself would prefer to play primarily from the 1PV, but if the 1PV does not suit my specific needs, I'd like to know that there's a 3PV available, so that I can still play this game that I've been waiting soooooo dang long and eagerly for.

[Reod]

Players should have ability to chose 1p or 3p viev.If u force only 1p (my fav~ viev) a lot of ppls wont play and fp2 game wont succed without hordes of players since only small % of them will pay.Also gamers like to see their toys. If there wont be 3p viev players wont buy from store skins/customized parts that only look diffrent (why if i cant see it?) so game will change automaticly from f2p to pay to win...as player will buy only toys that will give them advantage on field.Pay to win game = less players...

Edited by Reod, 05 November 2011 - 08:45 AM.

[FireBlood]

You can see your toys in the mechlab, I know how awesome my mech looks that's why I'm inside it.

Wow jumping to conclusions already with forced 1st person instantly making the game pay to win.. I don't see the connection. You get skins and parts to show off to others not yourself.

[Reod]

This game was mean to be reboot , and also appeal to all players that didnt played MW games yet , so if this game will be to "hardcore" , it will just bomb.If you say that you dont care about those younger players think not all are grown on all battletech and mechwarrior games , there arent such many battletech fans to keep f2p MW online alive if there would why there arent ANY MW games nowdays?

Think realistic not as fanboy. <- i love battletech universe but i want also have MORE games not just one that will bomb just because fanboys are too narrowminded and want it to be "hardcore".

Edited by Reod, 05 November 2011 - 12:47 PM.

[Pht]

First person view will be cool, if they manage to find a way to get the 'Mech's sensor readouts visible and easy to comprhend (including the camera views).

Third person can be done well and fairly - you do not render (normally) anything on the screen that the pilot cannot see from either his viewports or from his mechs cameras. Anything that is a sensor but non visible contact will probably do best being rendered as a simple wireframe shape, depending on how "sure" the sensors are about what they're looking at (think mechcommander 2). That way, 3p view doesn't have an unfair advantage over 1p view, while allowing the players to see their mechs and the surrounding area.

[Colaessus]

Sideways, on 04 November 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

Go both, stop crying over balance issues, in Mech 4 is was a simple button click, if you like 1st fine, if you like 3rd fine, but the given the option a good player is going to juggle every option he has to gain the advantage, stop crying because you refuse to do this and are getting beat. keep in mind this is based off of a game where you had a constand birds eye veiw. Is it really that big a difference if you like Halo and someone else likes Gears of War? more options = more players happy = more players stick around to support the F2P set up = the game sticking around longer and more updates.

Yea what he said.

Also battlefield 3 allows 1st person and 3rd person well in vehicles. Mechs are vehicles last i checked.

[OnLashoc]

Just to clarify, nobody is saying to allow 3PV in 1st Person games, we are saying allow there to be 3rd Person View servers where everyone will be in 3rd Person view and allow there to be 1st Person Servers where everyone will be restricted to 1st Person View.

I think the message is getting lost and people are saying to combine the two, which is incorrect.

[spottedmau]

OnLashoc, on 05 November 2011 - 09:53 PM, said:

Just to clarify, nobody is saying to allow 3PV in 1st Person games, we are saying allow there to be 3rd Person View servers where everyone will be in 3rd Person view and allow there to be 1st Person Servers where everyone will be restricted to 1st Person View.

Seems pretty reasonable. Also allows those who get pukey playing ffp to spend less time vomiting. Hard to argue with that.

[mechsae]

Having played the MechWarrior series since MW2, I have only gone into Third-Person View for two reasons:
1)To look at my 'mech
2)To visually gauge the battlefield without exposing myself

The first reason is innocent enough, the second one... that's a balance issue. If you suck at reading radar, it's going to be the difference in a well planned ambush and a premature one.

Everyone remember that, radar? Anyone ever sat in passive or shutdown in third person view to be hidden yet know where the enemy are?

Anyone who's played campaign in MW4:Mercs, sided Lyrian and played their one stealth mission against the Davionist Templar facility probably has done this.

Now, the combat replays, that sounds like a really neat idea. Honestly, someone should go make a thread for that if there isn't one already.