39 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

Constant/ non constant throttle can't be remapped, it is core behavior thats why i am bringing it up now.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Sesambrot]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

GAhhhhhhhH!!!!! In moments like this I am glad for all the other things in my life that make me happy that serve to balance the effects of your logic and assumptions sesambrot.

Does that mean you don't have ten fingers anymore?!?
I'm so sorry, I didn't know!

[IceSerpent]

Hmm...to each their own, I guess. I kind of see your point there, but for me that setup would be awkward to the extreme. Then again, I play with a stick, so I am spoiled by being able to control throttle with almost no conscious thought, like driving a car.

[renegade mitchell]

I was never a keyboard/mouse guy in the previous MW games. So no expert on how MWO set up is compared to previous MW. Played with joystick and gamepad. All had throttle control, and previous MW games allowed for keymapping and weapons grouping.

[ManDaisy]

No I luckly still have all 10 fingers thanks for your concern.

[Zyllos]

Everyone in this forum should play MW:Living Legends.

You will understand that having this type of throttle in the game will not be any issue what so ever.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I guess you could always macro it. Have keydown on w hit w, and keyup on w it x. wouldn't be as smoooth, but it'd work.

[IceSerpent]

Zyllos, on 07 March 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Everyone in this forum should play MW:Living Legends.

No can do, sorry. I am not a big fan of MW games that don't feature a mechlab (to say the least). On top of that I trust developers who decided to mount twin PPCs and gauss rifle on an Uziel about as far as I can throw my house.

Quote

You will understand that having this type of throttle in the game will not be any issue what so ever.

I think it will be - with standard setup your left hand freely shifts between throttle adjustments and other controls, with the proposed setup it's "glued" to the area around W key at all times.

[Sesambrot]

IceSerpent, on 07 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

No can do, sorry. I am not a big fan of MW games that don't feature a mechlab (to say the least). On top of that I trust developers who decided to mount twin PPCs and gauss rifle on an Uziel about as far as I can throw my house.

You're being kinda unfair... Well whatever, your loss!

IceSerpent, on 07 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

I think it will be - with standard setup your left hand freely shifts between throttle adjustments and other controls, with the proposed setup it's "glued" to the area around W key at all times.

Since A and D are required to steer your mech, your fingers will be "glued" to that area anyway!
Don't try to make up arguments that don't exist! ;P

[Sp12]

Eh the system they have sounds great for joystick users.

For keyboards I think the proposed system makes much, much more sense.

[Crave]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Lets loose the biggest sigh in the world.

The point is the current system is inefficient in controlling movement in a small area with a keyboard.

1) Fingers are constantly occupies between jamming W and S to reach your desired throttle then immediately hitting X to make you come a a full stop.
2) In the middle of a fire fight this will lead to over moving when one fails to Hit X at the right time.
3) Movement will be awkward and jerky for Faster Mechs as they have more extremes from movement speed.
4) Turning and adjusting speed or trying to stop while turning will be a complete hell as one must with one hand manipulate W,S, D, A , and X in order to move they way they want to.

Why non constant throttle is good.

This gets rid of the need to hit X or C which is in a very unnatural position. Further move it allows exact control of movement and distance traveled.

I agree with you completely.

While constant throttle has a purpose in open plains where it is just much much more comfortable, in a close-quarter setting fire-fight you do very much tend to overcompensate, as the system makes movements such as stepping in and out of cover extremly difficult and far from intuitive.
Everyone who disagrees with this should play the Mechwarrior Living Legends mod for Crysis Wars and actually try this out.
It takes a lot of skill and attention to your movement controls to pull of even an extremly simple manouver like this, which has in my opinion nothing to do with *realism* or necessary movement-controls for a mech-simulation, but rather with a poor choice in game design when having functionality of a feature in mind.

The above of course represents my own opinion and is not without bias.

Both system have certainly an existential entitlement, so having an option to choose according to own preference would be rather welcome.

Edited by Crave, 07 March 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[IceSerpent]

Sesambrot, on 07 March 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Since A and D are required to steer your mech, your fingers will be "glued" to that area anyway!
Don't try to make up arguments that don't exist! ;P

Not quite, as you don't have to steer constantly. Current setup goes sort of like this: hit W/S/X to adjust speed, do something else, hit A/D to adjust course, do something else, etc. New setup requires you to keep hitting W all the time, because as soon as you move your hand away your mech starts to decelerate.

[Sesambrot]

Crave, on 07 March 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

While constant throttle has a purpose in open plains where it is just much much more comfortable, in a close-quarter setting fire-fight you do very much tend to overcompensate, as the system makes movements such as stepping in and out of cover extremly difficult and far from intuitive.
Everyone who disagrees with this should play the Mechwarrior Living Legends mod for Crysis Wars and actually try this out.
It takes a lot of skill and attention to your movement controls to pull of even an extremly simple manouver like this, which has in my opinion nothing to do with *realism* or necessary movement-controls for a mech-simulation, but rather with a poor choice in game design when having functionality of a feature in mind.

Which is in fact, why you have the option to toggle the throttle-behaviour in MWLL, to work pretty much exactly like described in the OP
Don't understand why that's supposedly a problem though, at least I can handle it just fine, the mech doesn't move differently anyway.

Ice, it seems I misunderstood your post then, I thought it was aimed at the current system.

[ManDaisy]

likely wise the old setup requires you to play finger ballerina constantly hitting X for confined spaces. But to the point, as long as a mode switch is keyable there should be no problems either way.

One thing you guys gotta stop assuming, MWO is not MWLL. Unless we specifically say it should be there, odds are it an't.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Sesambrot]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

likely wise the old setup requires you to play finger ballerina constantly hitting X for confined spaces. But to the point, as long as a mode switch is keyable there should be no problems either way.

One thing you guys gotta stop assuming, MWO is not MWLL. Unless we specifically say it should be there, odds are it an't.

No one does, but fact of the matter is, default controlscheme is exactly the same, and what you're asking for is basically the level of customisation, and the ability to toggle the behaviour as is present in MWLL, at least that's why I've been bringing it up over and over again.
Either way it's the best/only example we have to look at how that controlscheme works...

Edited by Sesambrot, 07 March 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[SI The Joker]

Hmmm... if you changed the throttle to be 1 - 0, that would really break their entire dev blog post.

1 - 6 are weapons groupings, remember?

I play with a stick, so I tried to put myself into the shoes of someone who played with KB and mouse.

What about using TAB and the LEFT SHIFT key as throttle up/down respectively? I was using the standard WSAD position that many (I think?) would be familiar with, and it seemed almost natural to use TAB and SHIFT as controls for throttle when I envisioned piloting a mech.

EDIT:

Regardless, I have to say I'm pretty confident that you'll be able to re-map keys... it's pretty standard fair in today's games, no?

Edited by SI The Joker, 07 March 2012 - 08:42 PM.

[ManDaisy]

tab and shift lol. I hit shift 6 times and an annoying keyboard wcommand window config pops up, I hit tab and something accicently and my active window switch or program minimizes.

[SI The Joker]

Ahh crud, forgot about that sticky keys crap, sorry. It can be disabled, but that still doesn't solve it in the long term.

Tab shouldn't do that. ALT+TAB will, but not tab alone.

Was gonna say Q and Z, but either way... it's still not what you want.

*shrug* oh well.

Edited by SI The Joker, 07 March 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[autogyro]

By constantly pressing w, you are locked into keyboard controls centered around the w key. You would not be able to do stuff like toggle navs or jump jets or whatever the case is unless everything is mapped around the w key, unless you're happy to start slowing down. And there will be a lot of commands, I would assume.

Short of providing for both options, we need a feature that allows us to fine tune or exaggerate throttle movement eg by holding shift it moves the throttles a lot more when you press w or s.

[SirDude]

Bind mouse wheel up and down for consent throttle, W/S for non constant, everybody wins.