98 replies to this topic

[CyBerkut]

Aegis Kleais™, on 09 March 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

If you talked to a usability/UI expert, they'd have you completely dead to rights.

Eye wander is a VERY important attribute to minimize. Needlessly having to move your eyes all over a screen looking for information that isn't in an optimal location is counter productive to the pilot's need to focus in high stress situations like battle. Whether you know a weapon has a range of 600m or not, you NEED an indicator (preferably near the reticule, to minimize eye wander) that would, in short, tell you "You are/are not in range with the currently selected weapons to hit what's under your reticule.

This would be even more difficult now that we have 2 reticules. To which range would it be indicating (arm or torso?)

+1

It's definitely more important to have dynamic "in range" indication with the reticule than it is to have extra data that doesn't change (weapon min/max ranges).

Spinning the target reticules can be a pretty effective indication that a weapon in the selected group is within effective range of whatever is under the reticule. Of course, if the reticule is a circle, then it needs compass-like hash marks (or some such) in order for it be possible to see that it is rotating. Colors, brightness, or thickness could be further incorporated to convey additional information (ie. *All* weapons in the selected group are within range, all weapons in the selected group have converged, etc.)

Having the min/max range information displayed on a secondary weapons display panel in the cockpit could be helpful. I'd like that, at least as an option... But I'd rather not see static information cluttering up the HUD/HMD. (The pilot should learn/know that any ways.)

[Siilk]

Aegis Kleais™, on 09 March 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

If you talked to a usability/UI expert, they'd have you completely dead to rights.

I'm talking from my experience, and frankly, I never ever felt looking 5cm away from the reticle was a problem fro me.

Aegis Kleais™, on 09 March 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Whether you know a weapon has a range of 600m or not, you NEED an indicator (preferably near the reticule, to minimize eye wander) that would, in short, tell you "You are/are not in range with the currently selected weapons to hit what's under your reticule.

But that was my point: if you know ranges for all weapons, naturally you don't need range info, only the indicator. BUT. Good luck knowing them, all to the exact. I am a veteran MWLL player, I play it for 3 years straight(not to mention past 10 years of, say, more casual MW play), but I do not know the exact ranges for all the weapons out there. Sure, I know some ranges to the exact, I know general scale for the rest of them, but I do not remember all the ranges. Note that I am a dedicated player and a member of a game clan. Do you think weekend-warrior-type pubbers would be able to remember all this? I assure you, they would not. That's why exact range is needed to be displayed for all mounted weapons.

Besides, I cannot understand your hatred towards this suggestion. I don't suggest "in range" indicator should be removed, you will have your "no eye wander" delights. I merely suggest adding another piece of useful info, that wouldn't take significant amount of space while providing a convenient way to be aware of vital mech stats. MWLL has both, and it's working very well for the players. HUD isn't cluttered, because of per-weapon range info(see the image ion my first post here) and the players have a cheat-sheet for the range of all their weapons.

As a side note, weapon ranges could be moved to one of the awesome cockpit monitors, which, as stated here, would hold "[information] of a secondary or tertiary nature". Feels as a perfect place for mounted weapon ranges table, isn't it?

Edited by Siilk, 09 March 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Kyle Dragon Kurita]

keep the hud free from too much clutter. I like pertinent information but make the fonts see through so I can still make out some detail from a distant target or mech.

[Dataman]

did you mean in the HUD

'light MG 600 m'
'ERPPC 900 m'
'ERLRGLSR 800 m'
'CLRM20' 1000 m

no way. takes too many space on HUD

[Celestial]

Dataman, on 10 March 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

did you mean in the HUD

'light MG 600 m'
'ERPPC 900 m'
'ERLRGLSR 800 m'
'CLRM20' 1000 m

no way. takes too many space on HUD

I think MW3 did this perfectly by having colors associated with if a weapon is in range or not.
With 6 weapon groups on the hud, you have the maximum range weapon be the dominant weapon in the group. So lets say that Weapon group 1 is in range, the first dot in the Weapon group hud will be highlighted yellow for in range. green for not in range. or something alike.

[Spooky]

CyBerkut, on 09 March 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

It's definitely more important to have dynamic "in range" indication with the reticule than it is to have extra data that doesn't change (weapon min/max ranges).

You misunderstood. No-one wanted to remove the dynamic "in range" indication and replace it with the range display on the weapons list instead. The point was to have the dynamic indication for min- and max-range near your reticule as well as the weapon range stats on your weapon list, if only optional.

[Aegis Kleais]

Siilk, on 09 March 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

I'm talking from my experience, and frankly, I never ever felt looking 5cm away from the reticle was a problem fro me.



But that was my point: if you know ranges for all weapons, naturally you don't need range info, only the indicator. BUT. Good luck knowing them, all to the exact. I am a veteran MWLL player, I play it for 3 years straight(not to mention past 10 years of, say, more casual MW play), but I do not know the exact ranges for all the weapons out there. Sure, I know some ranges to the exact, I know general scale for the rest of them, but I do not remember all the ranges. Note that I am a dedicated player and a member of a game clan. Do you think weekend-warrior-type pubbers would be able to remember all this? I assure you, they would not. That's why exact range is needed to be displayed for all mounted weapons.

Besides, I cannot understand your hatred towards this suggestion. I don't suggest "in range" indicator should be removed, you will have your "no eye wander" delights. I merely suggest adding another piece of useful info, that wouldn't take significant amount of space while providing a convenient way to be aware of vital mech stats. MWLL has both, and it's working very well for the players. HUD isn't cluttered, because of per-weapon range info(see the image ion my first post here) and the players have a cheat-sheet for the range of all their weapons.

As a side note, weapon ranges could be moved to one of the awesome cockpit monitors, which, as stated here, would hold "[information] of a secondary or tertiary nature". Feels as a perfect place for mounted weapon ranges table, isn't it?

I'm not questioning how dedicated a gamer you are. If, in the end, eye wander isn't as big an issue for you, then that's fine; but it is an issue that a UI expert is ever-aware of and tries to minimize at all times. Besides, I personally have memory issues that prevent me from remembering everything I'd like to; I'd like to hope that the ability to recall information isn't tied directly to my skill level. (To my knowledge I haven't been dropped on my head to account for this bad memory)

And don't get me wrong, I don't hate the suggestion; space for information on screen is at a premium, but indicating maximum weapon range doesn't take up that much room and would probably be accommodated with little issues. I'm just hoping people don't rely on it so constantly for the mechanics of actively knowing whether their weapon is in range, because it's pulling them away from the reticule. Like with the weapon readiness indicators that are completely adjacent to the reticule, we would need a solution in place to quickly indicate to the user whether their weapon was in range.

As for moving weapon range to a different panel, I would think that it would be more preferable to merge it into the weapon/ammo HUD panel as suggested, since at least that information is on screen at all times rather than having to free look to an in-cockpit information panel. (Just another UI suggestion, I guess)

[Soviet Alex]

2 quick ideas: 1) I like the idea of having weapon ranges listed off to the side, with a simple in/out of range colour-coded crosshair. This would fit the descriptions in the novels. But I'd settle for a downloadable crib sheet which I could print off & have on my desk when I'm playing. I'll probably need one for the controls anyway.

2) Weapon groups & fire modes. So far we've seen "fire selected weapon" & "fire selected group". Can we link the same weapon into multiple groups? And can we have chain-fire from MW3 please? It makes heat-management for Awesomes easier.

UPDATE: Having read through Dev-Blog 5 again, it looks like we;ll be doing chain-fire manually, using the number keys to select weapon groups then the arrow keys to select a weapon within that group. Works for me.

Edited by Soviet Alex, 11 March 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Dataman, on 10 March 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

did you mean in the HUD

'light MG 600 m'
'ERPPC 900 m'
'ERLRGLSR 800 m'
'CLRM20' 1000 m

no way. takes too many space on HUD

If you had actually read the Thread, then Post #32 would have answered your question before it could be posted. Why in hell would anyone want that info on the HUD?

The 6 cubes as are, I consider to be way to much clutter and would like that another "cleaner" method should be investigated for sure.

One assumes the 6 cubes array is numbered such that the Top left cube = Weapon Slot 1, then down =#2, =#3 and then over to the top right =#4, then down =#5 =#6 to represent the 6 top down weapons display slots right?

How many Cube Arrays can you remember exactly (actual weapon and range) based on how many Mech variants you may Pilot in any given game session without having to glance at the weapons load-out panel every now and again?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 10 March 2012 - 06:28 AM.

[Outlaw2]

I'd like to have the enemy's damage display on the bottom right, and weapons on the top right instead. OLD SCHOOL

[TataLebuj]

Fecal, on 08 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

I was thinking about this as well. It'd be great if a second monitor could be used for your map/radar or rear view camera.

YES PLEASE!!! I love having two monitors, but none of my games take advantage of this. If we could have some way of using the second monitor for specific things that would be awesome!

Cheers,

[CyBerkut]

Spooky, on 10 March 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

You misunderstood. No-one wanted to remove the dynamic "in range" indication and replace it with the range display on the weapons list instead. The point was to have the dynamic indication for min- and max-range near your reticule as well as the weapon range stats on your weapon list, if only optional.

Check your own understanding, as I never said anyone wanted to remove the dynamic in-range indication from the HUD. My point was that dynamic in-range indication is appropriate and logical in the valuable, limited real estate of the HUD, whereas static min/max data is best left for displaying elsewhere (ie. secondary weapons display panel).

[Spooky]

CyBerkut, on 10 March 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Check your own understanding, as I never said anyone wanted to remove the dynamic in-range indication from the HUD. My point was that dynamic in-range indication is appropriate and logical in the valuable, limited real estate of the HUD, whereas static min/max data is best left for displaying elsewhere (ie. secondary weapons display panel).

Then your post seems pretty pointless. No-one disputes the fact, that the weapon range indicator is important and more important than the ranges in the weapons list. We are simply discussing the addition of adding the weapon ranges to the weapon list as well.

Though I do not think I misunderstood your post, since you specifically "+1"ed Aegis' statement on eye wander, indicating, that a pilot would have to look down to the right in order to check whether a weapon is in range or not and thus implying, that there would be not weapon range indicator near the reticule.


Also this is directed to Aegis as much as you.

Edited by Spooky, 11 March 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[Siilk]

Fecal, on 08 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

I was thinking about this as well. It'd be great if a second monitor could be used for your map/radar or rear view camera.

I would go even further, and suggest that it would be great to have the possibility to add 2-3 Picture-in-Picture-style windows to the HUD, which could toggle between front-, rear- and, maybe, down- facing cameras, in-detail internas damage report/mech status, map, lance status and coordinates etc:

[Volume]

Aegis Kleais™, on 08 March 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

Usually, the HUD elements need to stay the same color.

My only suggestion was to change the Weapon Group Readiness indicators as follows:

Filled in Block = All (non-destroyed) weapons in the group are ready to fire
Hollow Block = One or more (non-destroyed) weapons in the group are ready to fire.
Invisible Block = None of the weapons in the group are ready to fire.

That aside, the HUD looks VERY gorgeous. Minimal but it has all the good information where it is needed.

Hollow as in an outlined box? That sounds good.

I think range on weapons should be optional. Some people might want something like a recharge/cooldown "bar" or something, and the ability to swap that with a second countdown, like a (4.5) next to the weapon. Not necessary at all but maybe hud mods that aren't really "advantages" per se...user modifiable, or something.

[Bloody Moon]

My first and greatest wish is a HUD which is stored in an easily moddable format.
No one can create a HUD which is perfect for everyone.
By the way many issues could be solved even without modding if most items are resizeable and moveable to a certain degree.

For example having the "Damage Readouts" are in the worst possible locations for me as i usually want to compare mine with the current target's in a split second without much eye-movement.

[adin22]

Bloody Moon, on 11 March 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

My first and greatest wish is a HUD which is stored in an easily moddable format.
No one can create a HUD which is perfect for everyone.
By the way many issues could be solved even without modding if most items are resizeable and moveable to a certain degree.

For example having the "Damage Readouts" are in the worst possible locations for me as i usually want to compare mine with the current target's in a split second without much eye-movement.

For me it is all about the ammo and heat, i agree we should be allowed to change how the HUD looks, maybe that could be part of the Mech customization?

[SnowDragon]

I'd like to be able to use a second (or third) monitor to display other information, like other monitors in the cockpit. That'd be nice.

Perhaps an actual display of exact tempurature would be good as well, and a group range indicator like in MW4. The box is lit, at least one weapon in the group can hit that target. Box is dark, no weapons in the group can hit.

Other than that, very pretty.

[Datum]

Do you think we could be able to customize the color scheme or buy new ones (or even new HUDs)?
Hinthint-microtransaction-hinthint

[SnowDragon]

I think the ability to change your cockpit was already confirmed?