26 replies to this topic

[agresor]

Please Mr Iglesias that the future Crusader has a misilles launcher on each shoulder of each arm and a misilles launcher in each lateral torso and one of their forearms is a mace without hand and thus to respect their wonderful original design.

Thank you.

Edited by agresor, 09 March 2012 - 04:01 PM.

[Maverick Howell]

cool mech =D

[Aegis Kleais]

I'm not sure whether you're asking or telling Alex to do something...

[Strum Wealh]

CRD-3R Crusader

Quote

Armament:
2 Magna Longbow LRM-15s
2 Harpoon SRM-6s
2 Intek Medium Lasers
2 M100 Machine Guns

-----

The Crusader has a well-deserved reputation as a reliable, versatile 'Mech. Commonly found in command and fire lances, the 'Mech is equally at home alongside Marauders and Thunderbolts in close-assault units. Some versions have even served as scout 'Mechs, but this is rare.

The combination of Longbow LRM and Harpoon SRM launchers proved a potent weapon system, giving the Crusader excellent firepower at both long and short ranges. The Crusader's original Hawk SRMs and Phoenix LRMs have long since been exhausted, replaced by crude unguided missiles produced by the Successor States' munitions factories. These inferior substitutes cannot match the range or accuracy of the old missiles, but they are effective enough to keep the Crusader's opponents at a respectful distance.

The unique location of the Harpoons on the 'Mech's hips gives the Crusader both a stable firing platform and a good field of fire.

The arm-mounted Longbow launchers caused trouble in earlier models, however. The combined stresses produced by missile exhaust and the heat from the arm-mounted lasers placed considerable strain on the arms' actuators and superstructure. The now-familiar collars were placed on the Crusader's arms to compensate for these stresses, and so later models did not experience such difficulties.

Today the Crusader is an impressive vehicle capable of delivering a full spread of 42 missiles at optimum 160-180 meter range, with the potential of crippling or destroying even the mighty BattleMaster. At 65 tons, the 'Mech is also a powerful hand-to-hand fighter. Its heavily armored legs are especially devastating when kicking, and the jump jet-equipped Crusader-L is proficient in the dreaded Death from Above attack.

The basic Crusader's LRM launchers, lasers, and machine guns are located in the arms, and there is no mace.

The one-handed variant pictured in the opening post is the CRD-5M Crusader, which still has no mace (the left arm holds a Medium Laser and a LRM-15).

The red one is MekTek's take on the Crusader, proposed for inclusion in MW4's MekPak 4.

I could see Mr. Iglesias moving the SRM launchers from the legs to the torso (unless MWO is allowing leg-mounted weapons...? ), and changing the design to make it fit with the overall look of MWO and to avoid certain copyright issues since the Crusader is one of the "Unseen" (as its appearance is based on the "Armored VF-1A" from Super Dimension Fortress Macross).

[Victor Morson]

Strum Wealh, on 09 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

I could see Mr. Iglesias moving the SRM launchers from the legs to the torso (unless MWO is allowing leg-mounted weapons...? ), and changing the design to make it fit with the overall look of MWO and to avoid certain copyright issues since the Crusader is one of the "Unseen" (as its appearance is based on the "Armored VF-1A" from Super Dimension Fortress Macross).

Pretty much this. If we're getting a Crusader (Are we? You linked to the MekTek Solaris Arena game for a picture so I have no idea if you're even on the right forum) they're going to have to use the re-seen version or do something radically different with it to prevent issues with unseen stuff.

I'd vastly, vastly prefer that they avoid all unseens, even if they get permission, just because the original copyright holders are known for being irrational as hell and are likely to change their mind abruptly a few months down the line and start lawsuits. Even if they lose, we all do because it hurts the dev's bottom line.

There's plenty of good 'mechs with no risk associated, let's just stick with them.

[Alex Iglesias]

and here i was thinking chicken legs, minigun arms, and giant metal bat wings

[Felicitatem Parco]

... with giant chain saws coming out of the ankles, like spurs, so you can mow down infantry and light vehicles! I like it!

[Dihm]

Alex Iglesias, on 09 March 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

and here i was thinking chicken legs, minigun arms, and giant metal bat wings

Don't forget the dual laser swords.

[Siilk]

Dihm, on 12 March 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

Don't forget the dual laser swords.

Only dual? Ah, I see, you want second set oh hands to hold GIANT TWO-HANDED PLASMA AXE!

[agresor]

Aegis Kleais™, on 09 March 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure whether you're asking or telling Alex to do something...

My request to Mr Iglesias is serious and without sarcasm.

Strum Wealh, on 09 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

The basic Crusader's LRM launchers, lasers, and machine guns are located in the arms, and there is no mace.

But the superb original Crusader has a missiles launcher on the shoulder of each arm as well as it could have a missiles launcher in each lateral torso and in addition at least one to its variants has a forearm without hand and in the form of mace.

Strum Wealh said:

The one-handed variant pictured in the opening post is the CRD-5M Crusader, which still has no mace (the left arm holds a Medium Laser and a LRM-15).

The Laser Medium and the LRM-15 they are encapsulated within a forearm that de facto is a mace.

Strum Wealh said:

I could see Mr. Iglesias moving the SRM launchers from the legs to the torso ... and changing the design to make it fit with the overall look of MWO and to avoid certain copyright issues since the Crusader is one of the "Unseen" (as its appearance is based on the "Armored VF-1A" from Super Dimension Fortress Macross).

I agree totally but I believe that the new design of Mr. Iglesias would have to respect the aesthetic essence of the genuine Crusader like made it Arcadia with its model for Mektek.

Victor Morson, on 09 March 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Pretty much this. If we're getting a Crusader (Are we? You linked to the MekTek Solaris Arena game for a picture so I have no idea if you're even on the right forum) they're going to have to use the re-seen version or do something radically different with it to prevent issues with unseen stuff. I'd vastly, vastly prefer that they avoid all unseens, even if they get permission, just because the original copyright holders are known for being irrational as hell and are likely to change their mind abruptly a few months down the line and start lawsuits. Even if they lose, we all do because it hurts the dev's bottom line. There's plenty of good 'mechs with no risk associated, let's just stick with them.

I am sure that Mr. iglesias has sufficient talent to make a new design of the Crusader that respects the aesthetic typical of the original model avoiding to make a model exactly equal to the original one of Macross.

Alex Iglesias, on 09 March 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

and here i was thinking chicken legs, minigun arms, and giant metal bat wings

It waited for more of you Mr. Iglesias

Prosperity Park, on 09 March 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

... with giant chain saws coming out of the ankles, like spurs, so you can mow down infantry and light vehicles! I like it!

Dihm, on 12 March 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

Don't forget the dual laser swords.

Siilk, on 12 March 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Only dual? Ah, I see, you want second set oh hands to hold GIANT TWO-HANDED PLASMA AXE!

You would like that the aesthetic essence of your favorite mech completely was destroyed?

[GDL Irishwarrior]

Okay, the Crusader has never, ever, ever, ever, in any of its variants had LRMs mounted on its shoulders. The original version has them in the forearms, just without the collar on the forearms. Second, (Double checks Sarne.net) there is not a single variant of the Crusader that mounts a mace. None. At all. The 3050 Crusader -5M is missing the hand, yes, but that is not a mace. If it were, the stats would have to include the mace, since actual BattleMech maces (as stated in the link posted above) take up weight and critical spaces, and so would have to be listed under the speifications - which it is not.

[AkwardArcher]

The Leg-Mounted SRM's made kicking a real pain with the Crusader (though being that closed usually wasn't good for one anyway)

Really hope they do figure out physcial comabt ... Punching/Kicking/Charing will make some 'Mechs useless ...

Most namely the Charger

[Halfinax]

You need to look at that image you initially posted as proof that it had a mace and not a hand. Look at the forearm of the opposing arm, and now note that it is large an bulbous and contains the arm mounted weapons. Now look at the "mace" arm, and note that it is exactly the same as the other arm just without a hand.

That isn't even the primary or original artwork, or even Reseen artwork for that 'Mech either. Regardless I'm sure if it is ever include Fd will do the chassis justice.

[agresor]

GDL Irishwarrior, on 12 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Okay, the Crusader has never, ever, ever, ever, in any of its variants had LRMs mounted on its shoulders...

Of course because the wonderful original Crusader has a missiles launcher ON EACH SHOULDER OF EACH OF ITS ARMS.

GDL Irishwarrior, on 12 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

... The original version has them in the forearms,...

I must suppose that you do not know the stage of FASA occurred in the history of BattleTech therefore you have a problem of aesthetic information.

GDL Irishwarrior, on 12 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

... Second, (Double checks Sarne.net) there is not a single variant of the Crusader that mounts a mace. None. At all. The 3050 Crusader -5M is missing the hand, yes, but that is not a mace. If it were, the stats would have to include the mace, since actual BattleMech maces (as stated in the link posted above) take up weight and critical spaces, and so would have to be listed under the speifications - which it is not.

I have not suggested that the new Crusader has a mace simply has suggested that one of its forearms does not have hand and I have a bulbous form of mace.

Rance Praton said:

The Leg-Mounted SRM's made kicking a real pain with the Crusader (though being that closed usually wasn't good for one anyway)

Really hope they do figure out physcial comabt ... Punching/Kicking/Charing will make some 'Mechs useless ...

Most namely the Charger

I have suggested that a forearm has bulbous form of mace and no has hand so that the Crusader is more elegant but I have not suggested that the aforesaid forearm can be used for physical attacks.

Halfinax said:

You need to look at that image you initially posted as proof that it had a mace and not a hand. Look at the forearm of the opposing arm, and now note that it is large an bulbous and contains the arm mounted weapons. Now look at the "mace" arm, and note that it is exactly the same as the other arm just without a hand.

It is totally certain and that aesthetic style would be ideal for the new Crusader.

Halfinax said:

That isn't even the primary or original artwork ...

The new Crusader could be very majestic with a forearm without hand and a bulbous form of mace like the original Crusader of the first times of FASA in the history of BattleTech.

[zorak ramone]

Its pretty obvious from the mech polls released by the Devs that the "unseen" (which include the crusader) are not going to be included (at least not at the start).

That said, the crusader overlaps pretty hard with the Catapult, which is another strike against it.

[Oswin Aurelius]

Agresor, we (the community) have given you links to the most comprehensive collection of Battletech information proving you wrong on every one of your poorly-worded arguements, and yet you still insist that you are in the right without providing any sources for your information.

And that isn't including the fact that your topic in general is you asking FlyingDebris, a PGI employee who is doing his damnedest to make the best Mechwarrior artwork he possibly can, to drop everything that he's doing and redesign a (Unseen, no less) 'mech for your personal enjoyment.

If the Crusader makes it in game, it will be because the developers have decided to do so, and rest assured, Alex will do it justice. In the meantime, you should try to work on finding sources to back up your arguements instead of refuting what we say without any information.

EDIT: A mace would be a melee weapon, not a missing hand. Look at the Awesome's left arm and you'll see what I mean.

Edited by Oswin Aurelius, 30 March 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Kaemon]

This thread has a bulbous shape to it.

Mr. Debris, from my point of view, please do whatever the hell you want in regards to mech re-designs, and use your best judgement in regards to what you think we want to see.

We trust you, which is earned by your previous work.

Also, we know where you work.


p.s. - please make the warhammer the greatest mech evah, and the timber wolf slightly dumb looking (so everyone cries).
Ha!

[Oswin Aurelius]

To be honest, I just hope FlyingDebris can redesign the Clan mechs so that you can tell which 'mechs are Inner Sphere and which are Clan just by looking at them, regardless of someone's prior knowledge (or lack of) of their origins.

Edited by Oswin Aurelius, 30 March 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[guardiandashi]

actually most crusaders have 2 hands

here is the 3025 image

[GDL Irishwarrior]

agresor, on 30 March 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

Of course because the wonderful original Crusader has a missiles launcher ON EACH SHOULDER OF EACH OF ITS ARMS.




I must suppose that you do not know the stage of FASA occurred in the history of BattleTech therefore you have a problem of aesthetic

The new Crusader could be very majestic with a forearm without hand and a bulbous form of mace like the original Crusader of the first times of FASA in the history of BattleTech.

*Facepalms repeatedly, then bops over to MechGround*
Okay, first off, the post above me (guardiandashi) has the ORIGINAL Crusader art (From TRO: 3025, the VERY FIRST technical readout, which was published by FASA). *Counts hands* One, two. No bulbous forearm, nothing that could be misconstrued as a mace. Wasn't that simple? Now, onto the missile launchers...

So, MechGround essentially uploaded scans of every page of the technical readouts they have access to - including TRO:3025, the first readout to feature the Crusader. So, from the original, FASA-published description of the Crusader, here's a nice little quote for you, with important parts underlined:

"The arm-mounted Longbow missile launchers caused trouble in earlier models, however. The combined stresses produced by missile exhaust and heat from the arm-mounted lasers placed considerable stress on the arms' actuators and superstructure. The now-familiar collars were placed on the Crusader's arms to compensate for these stresses, and so later models did not experience such difficulties."
*Looks up at the Crusader art, straight out of the FASA-published technical readout* Hmm... I don't see any big collars on the shoulders. Do you? Looks like there's a couple around the forearms/wrists, though...