18 replies to this topic

[DFDelta]

So, just a quick suggestion on how LRMs could work with indirect and direct fire.

Direct fire:
Since we don't know how long the range of LRMs will be exactly I'll asuma a 1000m range here.
LRMs are launched in a "safe" state, so they won't explode if they hit anything on their first 100m of flight, dealing only very low and insignificant damage to anything in that range (10% or so from their normal damage).
Their fins and other control gear are also locked for the first 200m, disallowing them from correcting their flight path if anything is so close (to put more emphasis on the long range missile).
After they passed the 200m mark they are able to correct their flight path and home in on their locked target.

Clan LRMs are hot loaded, so they damage any target immediately after exiting their launcher, but their fins and control gear is locked for 100m.


Indirect fire:
If you target an enemy unit and your mech has LRMs equipped you will see a small indicator (e.g. a small triangle) above the target bracets surrounding it.
You can gain a LRM-lock on the enemy by either targeting him directly (firing them in direct fire mode), or by targeting the indicator over it. (firing them in indirect fire mode)
If you do that the missiles will launch normally, but start climbing upwards (~60°) after 50m, bringing them to a heigh of roughly 500m. After that they'll fly towards the target and drop on them from above in a very steep angle (70°-80°).
The disadvantage of this would be that the missiles have already exhausted all their fuel by the time they reach the target, and thus have very bad accuracy, being merely able to drop down, doing minor corrections with their control gear. (and thus make them easiely dodgeable by fast mehs, and allow big ones to avoid most of the missiles if they were already walking before the missiles started dropping.)

[Azmodan]

indirect fire mode should be a system used by 2 players. one with the LRMs and one with a TAG weapon.

[MaddMaxx]

Complementary systems like LRM's Streaks and TAG would be great. It adds greatly to Mech Teams synergy and allows both Small and Large Mechs to act independently while still providing a need for each other.

[DFDelta]

Azmodan, on 02 November 2011 - 07:08 AM, said:

indirect fire mode should be a system used by 2 players. one with the LRMs and one with a TAG weapon.

Indirect fire should be much more effective with a second player feeding you target data with his TAG, but I think basic indirect fire capabilities should be available without it.

There are quite a few examples in the novels where someoone did this without external help. (Morgan Kell against Daniel Allard when he tested his new Wolfhound, Redburns Delta Company when fighting Death Commandos on Kathil as examples)

A TAG would allow you to fire at targets that you don't have in radar range yourself and it would not provide any warning to your target before the missiles start impacting.

[Amarus Cameron]

DFDelta, on 02 November 2011 - 09:21 AM, said:

...he said some stuff

DFDelta I am not here to talk about your LRM topic just to say I am glad you are still sporting the Katrina loyalty...DOWN WITH VICTOR

[DFDelta]

Of course I do, someone has to show the legions of blind davies who is the most awesome person in battletech history.

[Amarus Cameron]

DFDelta, on 02 November 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

Of course I do, someone has to show the legions of blind davies who is the most awesome person in battletech history.

I respect her that much is true, but that is because of her unabashed political games. She owned Victor in the 'game of thrones' but I must disagree with you as the most awesome person thing goes. All factions should pay homage to first Aleksandr Kerensky, then warriors such as Aiden Pryde, Leo Showers(so much more to the character than his mentions in stackpoles books), and Veral Osis

[mithril coyote]

with indirect fire, there really isn't a need to have a selectable fire mode. indirect fire is only possible (in the board game) when no direct line of sight exists.

so NLOS (non-line of sight, a fancy military term for indirect) fire in the game would be the same. have the sensors show targets within range even when they're not in LOS, and have the missiles arc up and over when you lock onto them. having friendly unit within line of sight would just increase the chance of hitting.

this would make support missile boats like the catapult paired up with scouts like the Jenner a very good combination, but wouldn't make them too powerful.

[Marauder3D]

DFDelta, on 02 November 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

Of course I do, someone has to show the legions of blind davies who is the most awesome person in battletech history.

As a fan of Hanse Davion and the AFFS, both Victor and Kat can burn in the fires of heresy.

Every time I see your sig DFDelta, I want the Lyran Fist to hop up and punch her in the face.

[SquareSphere]

Did you check out the FAQ Delta?

Q. Will LRMs in MechWarrior® Online™ be guided or unguided?

A. LRMs will be semi-guided. What the heck does that mean? You will be able to lock on to your target but it doesn't mean the actual missiles will home directly to the target. The chance of missing will still be part of LRM gameplay. Use of the Artemis IV system and subsequent munitions, will narrow the area of damage by focusing the flight paths of the missiles. We're finding that this is a good balance between gameplay and staying true to the BattleTech canon.

-----

On Archon Katrina, man Delta you have me wavering on pledging my Loyalty to the TRUE ARCHON. It'll all depend on if they force you to choose a house for your player and your unit. Unit, I'll have to go where the Rangers take me, but other wise...

[DFDelta]

Marauder3D, on 02 November 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

As a fan of Hanse Davion and the AFFS, both Victor and Kat can burn in the fires of heresy.

Every time I see your sig DFDelta, I want the Lyran Fist to hop up and punch her in the face.

Hanse Davion, one of the BT characters with the highest ammount of killed innocent people.
I still wonder how anyone can claim to be a Hanse fan in one sentence and say that Katrina is evil in the next...

SquareSphere, on 02 November 2011 - 12:54 PM, said:

Did you check out the FAQ Delta?

Q. Will LRMs in MechWarrior® Online™ be guided or unguided?

A. LRMs will be semi-guided. What the heck does that mean? You will be able to lock on to your target but it doesn't mean the actual missiles will home directly to the target. The chance of missing will still be part of LRM gameplay. Use of the Artemis IV system and subsequent munitions, will narrow the area of damage by focusing the flight paths of the missiles. We're finding that this is a good balance between gameplay and staying true to the BattleTech canon.

As far as I understand that it just means that missiles will home in on a target, but instead of every missile hitting somewhere near the CT (MW:LL style) they spread out and hit everywhere on the mech, even missing with a certain ammount of missiles. Or missing with the whole flight of missiles if you have an unlucky spread.

Does not make my suggestion impossible/redundant.

[Teibidh]

I think that IDF should allow for either typed coordinate targeting or, more realistically, you should be able to open your tac-map and choose a location (range identified by a set of concentric circles) on which to fire. You have to consider feasibility of things like the Long Tom when considered IDF. Now, if I can pick where I want my Long Tom shell to land (obviously there's a margin of error that needs to be introduced) the way I would be able to if I were actually handling artillery it would suddenly become a very valuable and attractive battlefield asset as it should be.

[SquareSphere]

From what the FAQ says, the lrms are right now "area saturation" weapons. Use of support tech and make the area much smaller letting more missiles hit. That being said i wonder how they're going to handle missile flight. I'm personally a fan of the arcing LRMS but we see that fight ever day over on the MWLL boards.

[Mchawkeye]

Question.

If the maps are going to be bigger, as we assume to create more strategic, less brawling battles, is the 1000m range of the LRM really going to be long enough? I know it's pretty much the standard, there or there abouts.
While I know that longer range systems exist for support mechs, I can't help but think LRMs, if not all the weaponry, need to have there ranges recalibrated.
Lets face it, one kilometre is not long range, by anyone's standard. many missiles these days can fire BVR; even missiles designated medium range operate at 50-70k. (not that i'm suggeting we have them fire at 70,000m away. Maybe 5/10k? doesn't sound unrealistic for today's tech.
Just thinking, maybe the support mechs should be able to stand out of the range of direct fire, like in real life, and make as much use of support and indirect fire as possible; all the brawlers would be too busy in the thick of it, allowing the mediums and lights to out flank and take down heavy hitters like the support in the rear.
Or is that too sacrilegious?

[VYCanis]

i would love to see ranges pushed. i don't like the classic ranges being ported into real time environments because you end up with the ever present situation of not being able to hit something that you should by all rights be able to.

i like the optional secondary target bracket floating over a target for indirect lock idea.,

i can imagine that with how sensors will allegedly require LOS, you'd have forward scouts feeding target info back to the fire support.
so that they can rain down indirect fire.

but if you use tag or narcs, the lrms track in with more precision and better guidance.

though i really hope tag behaves differently from the MWLL approach, as their tag is all but useless. I'd rather tag was more like the scouting unit simply getting a target lock for the fire support than trying to keep a goofy pen laser steady

[SquareSphere]

It'll be interesting to see how they handle this. LRMs as support piece are actually not great when people can close fast, especially if AC's actually are brutal close range weapons like they're supposed to be.

[CoffiNail]

LRMS can also not be the best of weapons in the close quarters of urban combat. I REALLY hope it is not ALL urban combat.

[SquareSphere]

I'll be interesting if they implement min ranges for LRMs so they're not direct fire weapons

[ice trey]

Since TAG won't be available at this time, but TAG was never a requirement to do IDF spotting, I think that what should happen is the spotting unit can hold a spotting command down on the keyboard (what might have been the "Inspect" key back in Mechwarrior 2 days) while keeping the target under the reticule, and it transmits an area that the firing player needs to aim at (Much like the old Mechwarrior 3 targetting computer with his LRMs.

IDF has always been horribly inaccurate - you're lobbing dumb-fire rockets en-masse at a target whose co-ordinates are probably sent via radio transmission (Computer guidance would have required more advanced weapons systems, like semi-guided missiles or NARC Missiles as per the canon. I think this reflects what would have been required well.

Edited by ice trey, 03 November 2011 - 06:49 AM.