23 replies to this topic

[Applejack]

Your first thought here may be... What is a throttle switch?
A "throttle switch" is a function that will immediately invert the % of forward and reverse throttle.
For example, if a vehicle's throttle is 100% reverse, hitting the throttle switch will immediately change the throttle to 100% forward. Hitting the throttle switch again will invert the throttle back to 100% reverse.

The only mecha game I know of that implemented this feature was StarSiege (Sierra/Dynamix 1999). Though I played the entire EarthSiege series, I am unsure if it is present in SS's predecessors (EarthSiege 1 & 2). I am also fairly certain that this feature did not exist in the MechWarrior titles, and 'Mech handling suffered for it. (Enabling "Reverse" resets your throttle in Mech2)

Now that you know what a "throttle switch" is, you may not know why it is important, and important for Light 'Mechs in particular. It is important mostly because it dramatically increases the agility of a 'Mech by allowing the 'Mech to quickly and easily control its acceleration and deceleration by hitting one key or clicking one button. Assuming that the speed of a 'Mech is a factor in its turning rate, being able to quickly snap from going forward to decelerating into reverse will dramatically increase the turning rate of a 'Mech. Since the primary advantage of a Light 'Mech is speed and agility, adding a throttle switch would dramatically increase their combat viability by further increasing their agility.

Implementing a "throttle switch" also just makes the game easier to play and easier on your fingers. Mashing the S or W buttons in order to adjust throttle can get tiring and inconsistent; using the one-click "throttle switch" to go from forward to reverse would definitely increase the playability of the game by allowing players to rapidly decide whether or not they want to go forward, if they want to go in reverse, or if they want to stop. Quite simply, it improves control, and that is always good.

The premise that a throttle switch increases agility, however, does run off of a few mathematical/mechanical assumptions, such as:
-the turning rate is not linear; i.e. a Light 'Mech will always turn faster than an Assault 'Mech; turning rate increases on a curve with (max speed divided by weight).
-normal W/S throttle control moves the throttle % at the same speed for all chassis, and for some chassis the W/S throttle control moves at a rate slower than their top acceleration (i.e. a Jenner can accelerate 25kph per second but normal throttle control only allows 17.5kph per second acceleration, yet an Atlas can only accelerate at 12kph per second and thus loses nothing from using normal throttle control)
-acceleration is more difficult the faster a 'Mech goes
-the current turning rate of a given 'Mech is tied to its current speed; turning being faster the slower a 'Mech goes
-'Mechs that wish to profit off of a throttle switch must accelerate very quickly in the first place

In StarSiege, the throttle switch was incredibly useful for making turns (quintupled turning speed for a 35t Goad). It was the sole gameplay feature that made the lighter HERCs viable in combat.

Edited by Applejack, 08 March 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[bishop]

In MWLL you can do this just by hitting the X key(which MWO will use for the same thing, full stop) and then throttling back, the amount of time it takes the mech to gain momentum is slower than the amount of time it takes to put the throttle at full.

So it's already pretty much in there from the sounds of it.

[FinnMcKool]

What the hey its quick and EZ Im for it.

Plus I expect to go the scout rout.

[Parhelion]

MW3 had it as well.

[The Cheese]

Things like this are why I'll be using a flight control setup instead of mouse/keyboard.

[Kenyon Burguess]

set it to the mouse wheeel and "flick" it forward to max always worked for me....and who fights at less than max speed?

[Siilk]

bishop, on 08 March 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

In MWLL you can do this just by hitting the X key(which MWO will use for the same thing, full stop) and then throttling back, the amount of time it takes the mech to gain momentum is slower than the amount of time it takes to put the throttle at full.

So it's already pretty much in there from the sounds of it.

This. Another thing to consider: coming to a complete stop/reverse while running forward at high speed would be a risky manoeuvre as mech could stumble, if stopped/reversed too fast.

[Iron Horse]

Siilk, on 09 March 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

This. Another thing to consider: coming to a complete stop/reverse while running forward at high speed would be a risky manoeuvre as mech could stumble, if stopped/reversed too fast.

Good point, but I always just assumed the 31st-century computers could handle this on a 'mech at least as well as a person would be able to slow down from a run without falling (although there definitely would be some serious weight displacements going on with 25 tons or more swinging back and forth on a hip joint.)

[Pvt Dancer]

I am not sure if a single keystroke means full throttle. I read into it as if you held W down to move forward and to keep increasing speed till you reached the run, so you could still walk by not holding it down that long. Then you had to hit S to slow down from a run to a walk, then from a walk to halt, then to start walking backwards. I read the X key as the... for lack of better term, 'brake'.

To be honest, I am almost suprised you don't have to hold down W to keep moving forward and that you can slow down to a stop by letting off of the key. I feel this is the more 'natural' movement system and I hope I can set it up at least to do this.

I am not sure what the OP is concerned over, and if speculation is really merited. So your worred lights will be to hard to hit? Is that a bad thing? Will lights be impossible to hit? No... and it looked like there was no smooth animation in those Atlas vs Atlas vids that a AC 20 to a vital location (Leg or Head) a easy task. So I kinda fail to see the point of the post...

[Michael Rosario]

Dancer, I think the OP was saying that throttle inversion needs to be included in this game for the light mechs, not that it needs to be taken out.

Which makes me kinda worried that it will be. Direction inversion was one of my greatest tools in MW4:M. Taking it out would make me as sad as discovering that MW4:M didn't have lateral jump jets.

[Burned_Follower]

Geist Null, on 08 March 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

set it to the mouse wheeel and "flick" it forward to max always worked for me....and who fights at less than max speed?

Having greater control over your mech's speed will enhance your ability to maneuver thus causing you to last longer in battle. This is usually only made obvious if you are piloting something fast and maneverable and fighting against somebody else who is piloting something fast and maneuverable. A perfect example is when two Owens mechs go at it. Usually the one who has better control over their throddle tends to last longer.

For example, i use the w,s,x feature when in a light mech whenever i play MWLL and there are times when i stop, start at half speed, stop reverse in half speed, stop and run at full spead, etc. It really annoys somebody who's trying to snipe you from afar, not to mention it makes somebody who's trying to circle-strafe you a bit confused. It's always best to be a bit unpredictable whenever given the opportunity.

[Applejack]

To be clear, this is a feature that I believe is necessary for a Light 'Mech to be viable in combat.

On using the mouse wheel for 100%F/100%R: That works, but we don't know what MWO will allow for such control. That's why I am asking for this feature specifically. There is also a mechanical difference for inverted throttle, because a "throttle switch" allows the player to immediately decide not only whether or not they want to slow down or speed up, but also at what speed they want to stop accelerating. It allows for greater control.

And I have tried the "mashing X go Reverse" in MWLL (i'm a regular player). It doesn't work the same because some 'Mechs accelerate in reverse faster than mashing S allows, particularly the Owens. In addition to that, the "X" button is a hard-coded brake which halts the 'Mech and stops acceleration for about a second. It also generates heat.

I believe this is such an important feature, it has to be specifically called out so it doesn't get missed.

Edited by Applejack, 09 March 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[Dusty]

I'm unclear about how this works.... Wouldn't the mech still need to slow its momentum or come to a halt before its able to reverse? If the legs instantaneously started moving the opposite direction wouldn't the momentum of the upper torso topple the mech?

[Michael Rosario]

Personally, I like the way they did it in MW4:M. When you hit "reverse", your mech didn't immediately stop and reverse. The throttle had to scale backwards from forwards to back. If you were going 100% forward and you hit reverse, your throttle would scale 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, 0%, -25%, -50%, -75%, -100%. Admittedly, this was pretty fast, but it did take a second or two.

Edited by Michael Rosario, 09 March 2012 - 11:59 AM.

[Applejack]

Dusty, on 09 March 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

I'm unclear about how this works.... Wouldn't the mech still need to slow its momentum or come to a halt before its able to reverse? If the legs instantaneously started moving the opposite direction wouldn't the momentum of the upper torso topple the mech?

The 'Mech still follows normal deceleration, it just does it potentially quicker than other means and goes all the way into reverse.

And, if it were to immediately stop the 'Mech, you can think of it as the 'Mech putting its feet down in order to stop, and then "leaping" or "bounding" in another direction, kind of like how a human would make a quick turn when running. If that is how it ends up working, it should generate heat.

Edited by Applejack, 09 March 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[Steadfast]

I actually don't see the need, sure it makes cruising easier, but isn't it part of the "skill" to toggle it manually? Whatever, I sure won't cry havoc if it is implemented, but I just don't see the need, honestly.
Take care all
Daniel

[Applejack]

This is in such a situation where a player could create a macro to gain a logistical advantage over other players (a macro that throttle switches for them). In such situations, requiring the average player to mash more buttons does not equal "skill". Skill is learning where you place your shots, how to work with your team, good aim, and the like... not mashing buttons (sure, argue that mashing buttons is all your doing, but it's not fun to do anyhow).

Edited by Applejack, 09 March 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[Aegis Kleais]

I'm all for a reverse function on every Mech. Of course, the heavier and faster it is moving, the longer it takes to slow down and throw itself into reverse.

[Steadfast]

I do not agree there, skill involves everything, not only aim, but movement also. But I uess that point is moot.
Take care, as stated earlier, I won't cry about such a feature - wether its implemented or not.
Daniel

[Siilk]

Iron Horse, on 09 March 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

Good point, but I always just assumed the 31st-century computers could handle this on a 'mech at least as well as a person would be able to slow down from a run without falling (although there definitely would be some serious weight displacements going on with 25 tons or more swinging back and forth on a hip joint.)

True. But I think it could be done as follows: undamaged mech just swings and shakes a lot as computers are trying to compensate for sudden speed loss while keeping balance. Naturally, shooting something would be practically impossible as your reticules would be dancing a boogie all over the HUD. But if gyro or leg actuators are damaged, mech could fail to keep the balance and stumbleduring emergency stop.