21 replies to this topic

[Riffleman]

I really like the design of the trebuchet, and they even have a version that sports jumpjets. I think it could be a decent mover and long range support mech. With that being said I built a version that ended up with:

5/8/5 for movement (possibly snipe from tall buildings, or get to hard to access areas faster)
1x LRM-15
2x tons ammo
1x ERPPC
2x Medium Lasers
Endo steel chassis
14 double heat sinks
165/169 basic armor (still more than the stock)
with 28/28 heat being able to be disapated per round (assuming base heats stay true to tabletop)

Now for the downers
no case ( could take a half ton of armor off and add it)
XL engine.

Was the only way to fit a good weapon loadout. I feel an er ppc gives a nice punch at any range, and coupled with the medium lasers should at least keep me from being helpless when I come around a corner and SUDDENLY ATLAS.

Right away when you look at a catapult compared to this everything on it says superior except for the movement, which could be also boosted. But I really feel a build like this could be underestimated, and the mech has a smaller footprint and hitboxes, Although a smart player might still target me over the catapult reasoning I would be taken out of the fight faster thus eliminating an immediate threat.

But I love the design of the mech, and an excuse to use one thats a medium AND has jumpjets. Comments welcome.

Edit: If I did add case I would have to drop something other than armor, I have used up all available crit slots with this build.

Edited by Riffleman, 18 July 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[Riffleman]

Thought about a large laser instead, and mabye adding some equipment like a tag, or something to help the team with. Dont know the optional equipment very well though.

[Der Zivilist]

At first glance, it could work, though it's a little undergunned. The ER PPC doesn't really do any more damage than the regular one, it just reaches 25% farther. This is a big deal in tabletop, where you simply cannot fire past maximum range, but less of an issue in MWO where shots will continue to travel past maximum range, just with a gradual loss of damage.

If you want to keep your original design, though, at least drop some heat sinks for other goodies, you're oversinked. For starters, 2 of those 28 heat are maximum speed movement heat that you don't incur while you are sniping from a building. Also, at long range your maximum heat output from weapons is 20 (ER PPC + LRM15), while at close range it is 21 (ER PPC + 2x Medium Laser). There's only a narrow band of around 100 meters where you can effectively use all four of your weapons (barring PGI toying with ranges) for 26 heat, and even then you can afford to be a little undersinked because your heat gauge will take a few cycles to really fill up.

Let me run that through a mechlab and I'll get back to you in a bit.

[B4nd1T]

thats a skirmisher - shows up fires a salvo, withdraws befor the enemy can retaliate finds a new fireing postions, if statonary on a building it will be toast in no time, its a med it has to keep moving

[Riffleman]

B4nd1T, on 18 July 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

thats a skirmisher - shows up fires a salvo, withdraws befor the enemy can retaliate finds a new fireing postions, if statonary on a building it will be toast in no time, its a med it has to keep moving

That was my original thought on it, just dident clarify the plan for it. Yes playing like you suggested would give it maximum effectiveness.

Der Zivilist, on 18 July 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

At first glance, it could work, though it's a little undergunned. The ER PPC doesn't really do any more damage than the regular one, it just reaches 25% farther. This is a big deal in tabletop, where you simply cannot fire past maximum range, but less of an issue in MWO where shots will continue to travel past maximum range, just with a gradual loss of damage.

If you want to keep your original design, though, at least drop some heat sinks for other goodies, you're oversinked. For starters, 2 of those 28 heat are maximum speed movement heat that you don't incur while you are sniping from a building. Also, at long range your maximum heat output from weapons is 20 (ER PPC + LRM15), while at close range it is 21 (ER PPC + 2x Medium Laser). There's only a narrow band of around 100 meters where you can effectively use all four of your weapons (barring PGI toying with ranges) for 26 heat, and even then you can afford to be a little undersinked because your heat gauge will take a few cycles to really fill up.

Let me run that through a mechlab and I'll get back to you in a bit.

I hadent thought of that, I coud drop at least one and get case or something. Any equipment that I could sport at long range that would help my team?

[Otto Cannon]

Riffleman, on 18 July 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I hadent thought of that, I coud drop at least one and get case or something. Any equipment that I could sport at long range that would help my team?

I would leave tagging to scouts, but possibly ECM might help you sneak around and survive hit and run.

[Der Zivilist]

Okay, I would probably do the following:

- 3x Double Heat Sink
- 1x LRM-15
- 2x LRM-15 ammo
+ 1x LRM-20
+ 2x LRM-20 ammo

Whether you want CASE is up to you - it might save some repair costs if only the side torso instead of your entire 'Mech blows up, but realize that it will not keep you alive. Losing a side torso with an XL engine means the match has ended for you either way.

With that config, you sink 22 heat and have a heat output of 21 both at long and at short range, plus movement. Just that middle band where both the LRM and the lasers are effective will be a heat issue, but you might want to use your speed to pull range at that point anyway.

[Riffleman]

Der Zivilist, on 18 July 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Okay, I would probably do the following:

- 3x Double Heat Sink
- 1x LRM-15
- 2x LRM-15 ammo
+ 1x LRM-20
+ 2x LRM-20 ammo

Whether you want CASE is up to you - it might save some repair costs if only the side torso instead of your entire 'Mech blows up, but realize that it will not keep you alive. Losing a side torso with an XL engine means the match has ended for you either way.

With that config, you sink 22 heat and have a heat output of 21 both at long and at short range, plus movement. Just that middle band where both the LRM and the lasers are effective will be a heat issue, but you might want to use your speed to pull range at that point anyway.

Would love to, but the version that has jumpjets only has one missile hardpoint available. 3 energy points. So probably the only different build I would consider is drop the ERPPC for a large laser and some gear.

[Der Zivilist]

Just in case you misunderstood - I meant removing the LRM-15 and adding an LRM-20 instead. Not going with twin LRMs

[Soviet Alex]

Two quick tips: Firstly, design a variant using only 3025-tech. That way you can be sure that you can play it from Day 1. Note the lack of advanced tech in the gameplay trailers we have seen so far. Secondly, don't use the tabletop heat curve, because the heat output averaged over 10 seconds feels very different to the all-at-once heat spike of a real-time game.

Having said that, as long as you stagger the LRM & PPC fire to give yourself a cooldown between shots, 10 double heat sinks might do. And I'd want a lot more ammo than 16 volleys if I was going to hang back & snipe.

[Thrael]

Why everyone so excited about XL engiens? It drops your survivability to zero.

[Potato0707]

the only way you can prove its a work/wreck is out on the field
If you have fun out there, and prove an asset to your team (learn to strike a balance, but for the sake of your team, lean towards being an asset) when I'd say it works,

[Pvt Dancer]

I will point out CASE destroys the entire section it is in... if you have ammo with CASE in the torso your dead either way with a XL engine. Second, who knows what tech is avaible at the start of the game. Third, your not going to out-run a Jenner or out-jump one. With lower armor values and 11 locations to strech it out on, a single alpha strike from a Jenner /could/ take you out of the game. Armor is going to be the one thing you probablly will not be able to skimp on in this game, even with double armor values.

XL frees up alot of tonnage, but it now means that your chances of dying are tripled due to that all 3 torso locations have to stay intact. Reduced armor combined with that and your begging for it, like Han was begging it from Boba.

[Der Zivilist]

Thrael, on 18 July 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Why everyone so excited about XL engiens? It drops your survivability to zero.

No it doesn't - at least, not automatically.

For example, on a JägerMech, switching to XL means you can pretty much double the armor on the entire 'Mech. This makes it much harder to kill a side torso, thereby offsetting the disadvantage of the larger engine.

[Soviet Alex]

Thrael, on 18 July 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Why everyone so excited about XL engiens? It drops your survivability to zero.

Depends on the mech. Take a mech which cannot survive damage anyway (Commando, Spider, Jenner-7D) & you might as well take an XL-engine. You don't have as much to lose as you'd gain. The XL-engine on the Centurion-9D increases the speed by 50%, which completely changes its mission profile. On any mech which does not have ammo in the side torso, you have to destroy the whole side torso armour + internals to guarantee three engine criticals. If you didn't have an XL-engine, you'd probably be mission-killed by then anyway. For the Tree Bucket, with missile ammo in either the arm or side torso, the key question is "Will I run out of ammo before I run out of side torso armour?" Because hitting an empty ammo slot is no biggy. Doesn't even need CASE.

[Uri Brauer]

Not really a glass cannon. Lose some armour, add more weapons...

[Hellya]

Riffleman, on 17 July 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

I really like the design of the trebuchet, and they even have a version that sports jumpjets. I think it could be a decent mover and long range support mech. With that being said I built a version that ended up with:

5/8/5 for movement (possibly snipe from tall buildings, or get to hard to access areas faster)
1x LRM-15
2x tons ammo
1x ERPPC
2x Medium Lasers
Endo steel chassis
14 double heat sinks
165/169 basic armor (still more than the stock)
with 28/28 heat being able to be disapated per round (assuming base heats stay true to tabletop)

Now for the downers
no case ( could take a half ton of armor off and add it)
XL engine.

Was the only way to fit a good weapon loadout. I feel an er ppc gives a nice punch at any range, and coupled with the medium lasers should at least keep me from being helpless when I come around a corner and SUDDENLY ATLAS.

Right away when you look at a catapult compared to this everything on it says superior except for the movement, which could be also boosted. But I really feel a build like this could be underestimated, and the mech has a smaller footprint and hitboxes, Although a smart player might still target me over the catapult reasoning I would be taken out of the fight faster thus eliminating an immediate threat.

But I love the design of the mech, and an excuse to use one thats a medium AND has jumpjets. Comments welcome.

Edit: If I did add case I would have to drop something other than armor, I have used up all available crit slots with this build.

Seems decent. However, it is missing some necessary aftermarket parts and touches.

Here is a list of essentials to becoming a super cool, over powered mech pilot:

• A fart can exhaust to properly announce to any chick on the battle field that an ultra cool guy is here not to mention 5% to reactor power
  
• A properly secured spoiler placed behind your cockpit that is made of chrome to show off ones shiny intelligence level. An additional 5% to reactor power is gained here
  
• Racing seats and belts in the **** pit. This should add 20% to reactor power
  
• A sporty paint job, My Little Pony or a flaming My Little Pony paint scheme works best. 236% to reactor power
  
• A Type-R sticker, same reason as the seats and belts. 30% to reactor power
  
• A large "No Fear" sticker pasted over the cockpit window. +10 to intelligence

It is important to remember that your dress attire is ultra important as well. You need to wear a large gold chain and wear your pants down to your knees at a bare minimum. This should also add +10 to intelligence.

I hope this helps!

Hellya

[Strikhedonia]

Uri Brauer, on 18 July 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Not really a glass cannon. Lose some armour, add more weapons...

So the goal here is to make it a glass cannon? The Bucket cannot stand toe to toe on the front lines with the stock armor. Reducing your coverage even more means you're running around in a medium with less armor than a Jenner.

[Soul Catcher]

I keep looking at the Trebuchet variant TBT-3C.
Speed: 98.6 km/h
Two LRM 15s are equipped with Artemis IV, Ammunition is also double relative to the later -5N design. An addition Medium Laser increases its ability to continue in the fight once the LRMs run dry.

What I'm wondering is what would happen if you dropped one LRM 15s and replaced it with a Short Range Missile 6 ?
Return the Medium Laser back to the original Three or maybe even down to Two.
Indirect fire support that can get behind the main battle lines quickly and unleash hell at range, then run down into the fray and start helping to finishing off the larger mechs.
Hunting down those fast little scouts.

Is this build possible and what would be the drawbacks beside reduced armor which IMO is made up for by the shear speed of it.

[Haroldwolf]

Right now the games forces everyone to be a brawler. This makes good support mechs pretty useless because they don't have the armor to hang with the big boys.

If the game represented the Battletech Universe mechs like the Trebuchet and the Centurion would be valuable support mechs in a lance. Now they are just cannon fodder.