10 replies to this topic

[Fresh Meat]

I watched the game play a few times and in my opinion the AC20 round is just way too slow. Does anyone else feel it should be sped up?

[wwiiogre]

no

nothing like watching your death coming slow mo towards your cockpit and bam Atlas down one shot.

chris

[Strum Wealh]

Having a lower muzzle velocity for larger weapons would be both normal and realistic, actually.

Strum Wealh, on 07 February 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

AC-2:
Caliber Range: 20mm to 40mm
Muzzle Velocity Range: 800-1700 m/s
Basis: M61 Vulcan, GAU-8 Avenger, RARDEN, Rheinmetall MK 20 Rh 202, Bofors 40 mm

AC-5:
Caliber Range: 50mm to 90mm
Muzzle Velocity Range: 550-1130 m/s
Basis: 5 cm Pak 38, 90 mm Gun M1/M2/M3, Cannone da 90/53, Ordnance QF 75 mm, Bofors 57 mm Gun

AC-10:
Caliber Range: 100mm to 140mm
Muzzle Velocity Range: 590-1750 m/s
Basis: BL 5.5 Inch Medium Gun, 13.5 cm K 09, BL 4 Inch Naval Gun Mk VII, D-10 Tank Gun, Rheinmetall 120 mm Gun

AC-20:
Caliber Range: 150mm to 203mm
Muzzle Velocity Range: 300-950 m/s
Basis: 8"/55 caliber gun, 20.3 cm K (E), 15 cm K (E), Skoda 150 mm Model 1918

Based on the above, I would suggest the following values for average muzzle velocities:
AC-2: ~1500 m/s
AC-5: ~1200 m/s
AC-10: ~900 m/s
AC-20: ~600 m/s

Canon ranges (based on extreme ranges listed here and "1 hex = 30 meters"):
AC-2: 960 meters
AC-5: 720 meters
AC-10: 600 meters
AC-20: 360 meters

This would give average travel times of:
AC-2: 0.64 seconds
AC-5: 0.60 seconds
AC-10: 0.67 seconds
AC-20: 0.60 seconds

Your thoughts?

Strum Wealh, on 08 February 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

There is a statement in TechManual that describes the Ultra ACs' inability to use special munitions as being a result of incompatibility between the munitions and the special magazines used by UACs.

As such, that statement would indicate that ACs in BT/MW are more commonly magazine-fed or clip-fed (like an assault rifle or submachine gun) rather than being belt-fed (like a machine gun), where:
1.) the "auto" in "autocannon" refers to both the automatic loading of a new shell (ACs and artillery fire shells, Gauss Rifles fire slugs, MGs fire bullets) after the firing of a previous shell and the automatic replacement of a magazine/clip, and
2.) the ammo values given on the TT tables represent magazines/clips rather than individual shells, such that the AC-20 ammo comes in sets of five magazines/clips per ton, where each magazine/clip contains a sufficient number of individual shells to allow for 10-seconds (one TT turn) of fire from the weapon before the magazine/clip is empty and needs to be replaced (e.g. AC-2 has 45 magazines per ton, AC-20 has 5 magazines per ton, each magazine contains multiple shells).

As such, I would imagine that, in terms of ROF, the AC-2s (~20-40 mm) would behave more like very large SMGs and AC-5s (~50-90 mm) would behave more like very large ARs while AC-10s (~100-140 mm) would behave more like tank guns and AC-20s (~150-203+ mm) would behave more like direct-fire versions of heavy artillery (howitzers and naval artillery).

It should be noted that the caliber ranges above are estimates on my part, and that ACs in BT/MW are classified by damage output rather than by caliber (that is, a 20 mm AC that fires two shells per second and a 40mm AC that fires one shell per second can both be "AC-2s" as long as each deals around two units of damage to 'Mech armor over a ~10 second period)...

[Alantin]

I say smaller ballistic weapons should have really high muzzle velocity so they have flat trajectories.

I also say, on this topic, that all weapons should be effected by conditions.

IE, heavy gravity planet, missles and ballistics have shorter ranges, dusty conditions reduce laser effectiveness. On the balance side of that, clear no atmosphere settings will have really long laser ranges, whereas missles won't be able to steer(unless retro steering with nose rockets) because there is nothing for the fins to work on.

[TimberJon]

I didn't see any speed to it. It just appeared instantaneous to me. Whether it is a single cannon shell or a stream of them, they all will have a rediculous muzzle velocity. Strum did the math so listen to him. 2000 FPS for an AC-20 gives it good energy and punch power.

[Jet Morgan]

No am happy with the velocity of ballistics as set (and I like your philosophy wwiiogre - 'Ah, all things come to those who wait, ...') ... although some interesting ideas, but I frequently remind myself that the physics of the MW/BT universe are not the same as ours when I can see battlefields illuminated with Christmas tree lighting effects from laser weaponry.

Edited by Jet Morgan, 11 March 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[That Guy]

realistically, yes, the shells should go alot faster. however, give the very limited range of the battles in MW games, the slower speeds make up for the loss in distance.

if they increase the max range of weapons, then they should accordingly increase the mussle velocities

[Aegis Kleais]

Balancing issues (including ballistic speeds) have not been finalized yet. I'm all for the game changing the flight time of ballistics to balance it in game rather than to strictly go by canon lore.

[ManDaisy]

I'm all for smaller caliber ballistics having a higher velocity, In fact someone should go and suggest this.

[Dlardrageth]

That Guy, on 11 March 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

realistically, yes, the shells should go alot faster. however, give the very limited range of the battles in MW games, the slower speeds make up for the loss in distance.

if they increase the max range of weapons, then they should accordingly increase the mussle velocities

Well, the ranges and thus velocities of BT lore were originally developed for a TT game and only for that. So some adaption to the computer game (aka changes) might be appropriate. As long as it doesn't totally go over the top and all of sudden Gauss rifles start hitting targets 5km+ out. That one would likely evolve into a completely different game. And open a big new can of worms balancing-wise.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 11 March 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I wonder if they have increased AC ranges to go with the increased ranges for lasers?
Posted 10 March 2012 - 06:21 PM
Some weapons converge others do not. Arm weapons converge, as they should. Torso mounted weapons, can, but not nearly as much. Lasers fire across the map, but we've tuned them to lose energy overtime inspired by TT ranges (realistic or not). This is a game.Game balance will always trump realism.