313 replies to this topic

[silentD11]

Viper69, on 13 July 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

If you sign into a match as a soldier why wouldnt you follow orders, its part of the role you are playing. Unless you are RPing an A$$hole who would get a court martial and killed shortly after an engagement. Otherwise why sign up as a subordinate if you arent going to be subordinate.

Because it's a game and commander roles in games = epic fail. Commanders attract no talent *** clowns that shouldn't be gaming. They suck at the game and have no physical skills and then try and tell people what to do. They are 12 year old kids with obnoxious voices and don't know what they are doing. In games with commanders without exception the dumbest thing you can do is listen to them and follow them. Want to know who to permanently mute in a game, any chuckle head that tries to be a commander.

The only exception is with clan/league play. In that situation everybody knows what their teams skills and abilities are and you can actually tailor things. Furthermore it's the only way to get enough group experience to develop any sort of tactics and strategy worth caring about. It's more of a captain than anything official.

In public servers following commander roles or trying to work out leadership invariably ends in utter failure. Having a team captain when you play with the same 5-7 people every night and get to know how they all work in league play is key though.

[bpphantom]

If they're Hicks, yes. If they're Gorman... I'm looking for Ripley.

[Tanaga Matabushi]

A good commander, will only ask you to do something that you are good at, or efficient in. Not a good idea to scout in the Atlas, or assault in the Jenner. Good Commanders know their men, or they die a lot.

Sometimes as a general trooper, you don't know why you are being asked to do something, and commanders sometimes don't have time to explain. Best to do it, and question later.

Edited by Tanaga Matabushi, 13 July 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[XIRUSPHERE]

In over a decade of multiplayer gaming I have seen no good ever come out of a command role in a game. It pains me to even see it included in this game as all it tends to attract are arm chair generals who operate on a disconnect from reality or ego tards.

I plan on sticking to pub matches as the politics and drama of groups of players is beyond any tolerance I have. If someone in a pub match wants to play ***** commander like others have said I will personally dispatch said individual with extreme prejudice.

[Carl Dane]

i plan on being a merc or a lone wolf so if its the prior then most likely yes if the later then it depends on the orders.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Tanaga Matabushi, on 13 July 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

A good commander, will only ask you to do something that you are good at, or efficient in. Not a good idea to scout in the Atlas, or assault in the Jenner. Good Commanders know their men, or they die a lot.

Sometimes as a general trooper, you don't know why you are being asked to do something, and commanders sometimes don't have time to explain. Best to do it, and question later.

It's all about asking who wants to do what. making do with who actually wants to play the game.

[Alcatraz968]

Will follow to the best of my logical ability as long as its not a order that interferes with self preservation. Unless of course that the order would help save others and win use the game.

[Rooster68W]

[silentD11]

As a person that was in the military a video game is not the military. Promotions to leadership positions within the military are based off skill, ability, achievement, ethos, integrity, and demonstrations of these qualities.

In a video game any jackass can do anything, and you're a fool for following them.

[Dozer]

As a person also with military experience, as did my father before me, I can state with absolute certainty that promotions to leadership positions within the military are are not always based off skill, ability, achievement, ethos, integrity and demonstration of these qualities. Sorry, but that's the hard and painful truth, and I truly wish it was otherwise.

With that said, yes this is a video game however not everyone is a jackass, nor are you always a fool for following them. There are some really smart players out there and sometimes it's great fun following the other ones .

Edited by Dozer, 13 July 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[RG Notch]

If you mean in an organized group match with guildies, well then of course. If you mean in a PUG where someone is "commander" because of what modules he has or where he put his XP... No. I'm amazed at the number of sheep who will be playing this game.

[Dozer]

Rooster68W, on 13 July 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

/snip

Based on the evidence one could argue that these are either orders or guidelines

[silentD11]

Dozer, on 13 July 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

As a person also with military experience, as did my father before me, I can state with absolute certainty that promotions to leadership positions within the military are are not always based off skill, ability, achievement, ethos, integrity and demonstration of these qualities. Sorry, but that's the hard and painful truth, and I truly wish it was otherwise.

With that said, yes this is a video game however not everyone is a jackass, nor are you always a fool for following them. There are some really smart players out there and sometimes it's great fun following the other ones .

The military at least has a system in place to test people, games not that much. Furthermore it's pants on head retarded to try and apply the actual assumptions about the actual military to a game.

And yes, some smart players do exist... in competitive matches... for public servers, don't listen to anybody ever. And the surest sign that someone is a jackass and not worth listening to, they put themselves in a leadership poistion.

[Fastred]

silentD11, on 13 July 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

As a person that was in the military a video game is not the military. Promotions to leadership positions within the military are based off skill, ability, achievement, ethos, integrity, and demonstrations of these qualities.

In a video game any jackass can do anything, and you're a fool for following them.

Which military?

Actually depending on the military promotions can have more to do with who you are and who you know than skill or any other tangible quality.

It is only in the last century that some professional military models started promotes soldiers on test scores and demonstrated performance. The merit based promotions were the exception not the rule. Even today this practice is limited to a relatively small percentage of the worlds military organizations and if you think who you are or who you know does not matter then you are fooling yourself.

As for public servers I have seen some very impressive pugs come together and turn into dang tough competitive teams because the people involved were mature enough to actually give their team mates the benefit of the doubt and attempted to work together as a team.

Edited by Fastred, 13 July 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[Haggis3037]

In a team with my mates? Sure!

In a team with randoms (and possibly a commander who shows by his orders that he is either an ***** or a n00b)? Hell no!

[WardenWolf]

I will follow a commander's orders as long as they are within reason: I will not rush in my Atlas all alone toward the enemy base, as it is not a scout mech and will fail miserably if not supported. If given a good reason, though, or if working with a commander I know and trust - then I might even follow through on such an order as that...

However, it is my intent to take the command tree in MWO - so I expect that I will be a commander (either of just my lance, or the whole group) more often than not. I plan to give an overview of the battle plan, based on the map + objectives + our team layout as early as possible, so that folks know the general idea and can act independently to further it in the absence of direct orders. I would then give specific objectives to my lancemates (or to each lance, if the company commander).

Keeping up good communication is important, so that players don't feel abandoned in the middle of a battle - so I have already set up a TS server, which I will broadcast the info for every time I enter a match. Since there is a map grid visible in the screenshots, I also expect there to be a useful in-game system to give orders; I plan to train myself to use that as efficiently as possible.

Hopefully I will be able to earn the respect of the players I group with, and the more I do the more I would expect they would be willing to follow instructions... and also to let me know if they think I am making a bad call, but to go through with whatever I end up deciding. Teamwork is critical in games like this, and even just with my brother and I playing in WoT I can see how it effects the swing of a battle when we work togther (with one of us clearly in charge).

I am also hoping there may be a system for players to rate their commanders after a battle, with the idea being that when entering a new battle the other players will be able to see if a commander is well rated (which would hopefully confer a greater deal of respect for him/her).

[Stahl Krieger]

Boymonkey, on 11 March 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

The commander role is intriguing me, from what I can gather he/she will be able to issue orders to individual mechs, so will you follow blindly what your commander says or will you say nope bad idea and do something else?
Hopefully I will be in a clan which has decent commanders in but when they are not in and I just join a random match I do fear that many will have no idea.
But seeing as Iam going to RP my time on the game I will do as they say.(unless it is really stupid like goto a corner of the map and wait)
Oh and I can't wait for the 1st vid explaining the ins and outs of the commander role.

2 prerequisites to Command are respect and competence. As all players in this game are alien to me, I am unaware of anyone's competence level, and I have no respect for any of them. It will take some serious playing time/joining a "Clan" that I have talked to before I decide to follow orders.

This world would be chaotic and filled with despair if all people followed all orders all the time.

silentD11, on 13 July 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

As a person that was in the military a video game is not the military. Promotions to leadership positions within the military are based off skill, ability, achievement, ethos, integrity, and demonstrations of these qualities.

In a video game any jackass can do anything, and you're a fool for following them.

Ah, a fellow realist. I hope we wind up on the same team from time to time.

[silentD11]

Stahl Krieger, on 13 July 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

2 prerequisites to Command are respect and competence. As all players in this game are alien to me, I am unaware of anyone's competence level, and I have no respect for any of them. It will take some serious playing time/joining a "Clan" that I have talked to before I decide to follow orders.

This world would be chaotic and filled with despair if all people followed all orders all the time.



Ah, a fellow realist. I hope we wind up on the same team from time to time.

You're messing one key requirement, knowing the skills and abilities of people on your team. Bet it a soccer team capatain, military captain, company manager, you can't manage/lead people unless you know them.

In gaming, that means being in a competitive clan. On public servers, you do more harm than good trying to lead people and anybody with a modicum of sense should mute your *** off the bat.

[Gwaeth]

Depends.

If it seems to be logical, ok else i will follow my own will.

[Sirous]

silentD11, on 13 July 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Because it's a game and commander roles in games = epic fail. Commanders attract no talent *** clowns that shouldn't be gaming. They suck at the game and have no physical skills and then try and tell people what to do. They are 12 year old kids with obnoxious voices and don't know what they are doing. In games with commanders without exception the dumbest thing you can do is listen to them and follow them. Want to know who to permanently mute in a game, any chuckle head that tries to be a commander.

The only exception is with clan/league play. In that situation everybody knows what their teams skills and abilities are and you can actually tailor things. Furthermore it's the only way to get enough group experience to develop any sort of tactics and strategy worth caring about. It's more of a captain than anything official.

In public servers following commander roles or trying to work out leadership invariably ends in utter failure. Having a team captain when you play with the same 5-7 people every night and get to know how they all work in league play is key though.

Typical elitist league player response. Having played a lot of BF2, and being the commander to boot. I will have to say you are almost 80% wrong. The Commander Role is more of a support role and should be looked as such. Should you always blindly follow his orders, no. But saying that it attracts 12 yo ***hats is ignorant at best. We have yet to see how it will be played out in MWO. I do know that it is very easy to follow orders of a commander who is paying attention to the needs of the team. It is also very easy to follow the orders of a commander who is aware of the battlefield and if back bases capture points are being taken.
Maybe it was just the servers I was on but, I would have to say that 70% of the time the commanders we had were fairly decent and if not we managed to get a new one the next round.
Oh and following his orders earns you xp and possibly cbills. So hopefully if you have a decent competent commander you will at least attempt to follow orders.

Edited by Sirous, 13 July 2012 - 12:01 PM.