24 replies to this topic

[Asmudius Heng]

LOS makes sense to a degree and would give scout mechs more of a role.

If a scout can spot an enemy via visual or via sensors - they should then share all that data with the rest of the lance / team so they can share that info without having to yell it through comms.

I do not think it needs to be ultra realistic, but i think that more advanced sensor warfare is needed ... and I believe will be delievered from what the devs have been saying about info warefare so ... yes all good i think

[Redtail]

So you have upgradeable sensor suites that can more reliably penetrate through certain environmental factors. A standard RADAR unit, RAdio Detection And Ranging, is a very limited system primarily used in sea and air applications due to obvious limitations.

'Mechs did have thermal, magnetometric, and in some lines of canon, seismic sensors. Beagle Active Probe and Bloodhound Active Probe, as well, and battlefield networking uplinks to distribute information from one 'mech's sensors to other 'mechs.

I would place certain limitations on certain sensors and let them layer. Make certain 'mechs incapable of mounting certain sensors.
RADAR would be primarily LOS-oriented, thermal sensors would be relatively short-ranged and affected by earth and ambient heat sources, magnetometric would be affected by metallic debris and electromagnetically powered weapons (PPC and Gauss Rifles) , and seismic sensors would not detect targets moving sufficiently slow with a moving threshhold based on mass. Networked data "updates" every 5-10 seconds and is gone when the 'mech sending the signal is damaged or destroyed, or if radio jamming is in place.

[Ghost]

They've already claimed the emphasis is on information warfare, and intend to make the various classes of 'Mech have purposes beyond damage and movement speeds. I'm predicting a heavy "fog of war" / "double blind" setup, with ECM playing a big role, and having similar effects to what it had in both MechCommander (decreased detection range) and Mechwarrior 4 (missile lock takes longer). The ECM should also follow that optional rule that makes it ECCM, making it absolutely essential to bring something along that has it. I also predict recon cameras as well as remote sensors. The Beagle will probably put in an appearance as well, and my guess is it will work a lot like how it does in the Battlefield games--giving your team location and target identification data. It'd be flavorful if they limited battle recordings to Beagles too, but I digress.

Edited by Ghost, 02 November 2011 - 09:03 PM.

[omegaclawe]

Mitchpate, on 02 November 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Mektek implemented line of sight radar in MW4 and the end result is that most remaining leagues chose not to use it. In theory it's nice, in the actual game with two highly coordinated teams playing on a large and geographically complex map it's a pretty terrible mechanic. Most teams just assume it's team only radar and don't even bother placing a heavy emphasis on scouting. Your scout has to basically stumble upon the enemy team and too often that results in a raped scout.

Just because it's more realistic doesn't mean it's more fun.

That was probably due in part to the fact that they had yet to add anything else to it, except the BAP/ECM things. Without C3 or anything to coordinate a lance's radar, it didn't really help anything.

The other thing is, competition is always extremely resistant to change. Every year, in football, you have people whine about the new rules designed to protect the players. Despite the release of Starcraft II, the original Starcraft is still the most popular competitive RTS. Counter Strike: Source was a competitive flop (there are other reasons for that one, though.). Competition becomes devalued when the established systems are completely overhauled; things that used to work well shouldn't really suddenly be completely nonviable, there, and they weren't about to start from square one in those, having done roughly the same things for 8 years.

A new game, however, they have to relearn everything. This is the perfect time to implement a more tactical radar, and with the focus on information warfare, if done right, we'll thank them for it.

[Mitchpate]

Yeah but MWO starts in 3048, 2 years prior to C3. Many of the same problems MW4 had would still occur.

And no, it wasn't that the playerbase was resistant to change. Most actually welcomed the idea of a more advanced radar. The problem is that it actually had the opposite effect on scouting. Instead of making the scout more valuable it essentially made it useless on anything but wide open maps. If this game is centered around urban combat, pure line of sight is a terrible idea. As a scout, you'd basically be running around the city praying you weren't the one who stumbles upon the enemy team.