13 replies to this topic

[Hans Landa]

There's something I don't understand. Why the Clans have Narc Missile Beacons? The idea of the narc is that a light mech target a heavy/assault mech with it and run, while the missile boats kill the painted target from afar.

The problem is that the Zellbrigen says that "Each warrior will issue a challenge to a different enemy. If one side outnumbers the other, then the extra warriors on that side will stand aside until one of their comrades falls in battle. A warrior can challenge more than one unit at a time". So if I paint someone with the mark, nobody else should target him (yeah, a warrior can challenge more than one, but in Clan vs IS wars that doesn't happen)

[Ghost]

I could have sworn that the only way a Clan MechWarrior could get away with using Narc beacons is because they're mounted on the same 'Mech as the missiles that will be using it (a use made famous in one of Aidan Pryde's Bloodname trials).

[Krubarax]

Zellbrigen is not a RULE.
It is not per definition: RULES of engagement.

it is a custom.

Zellbrigen is broken even from stray-shots and ricochettes.
Zellbrigen is also not in use in Trial of Refusals.

Zellbrigen is only granted and followed if you concider your foes "worth the honor"
In other words, not when hunting bandits, mercenaries or perhaps a feuding clan.

[Evgeny Bear]

well Clan wolf has mechs with mounted Arrow IV system only (Naga) so it would mean that some Clan use dezgra tactics too in large Scale combats.

[Sidney]

Hans Landa, on 14 March 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

The problem is that the Zellbrigen says that "Each warrior will issue a challenge to a different enemy. If one side outnumbers the other, then the extra warriors on that side will stand aside until one of their comrades falls in battle. A warrior can challenge more than one unit at a time". So if I paint someone with the mark, nobody else should target him (yeah, a warrior can challenge more than one, but in Clan vs IS wars that doesn't happen)

I'm not sure I see the problem here.

Zellbrigen is not absolute. It is the practice of one warrior dueling another warrior. However, there are exceptions: All Clans (with the exception of the Horses) do not include vehicles in Zellbrigen. The Ice Hellions consider a star of light 'mechs to work together as a point of elementals or protomechs do- believing five light 'mechs against a single assault 'mech is not a violation.

And then there are the really important battles where a victory is more important to the Clan than the individual's honour.

Consider the follow:

Star Colonel Bob is defending Clan Wolf's right to the Founder's Bloodlegacy (The Kerensky Bloodname). If he fails in his task, Clan Wolf will lose the Kerensky Bloodname.

Now, the fight isn't going so well. It's possible he could lose. However, if he orders his Cluster to drop Zellbrigen and call in some artillery...they can turn the battle around.

What's more important: Star Colonel Bob's personal sense of honour, or his Clan's right to the Kerensky Bloodname?

...the Clans don't always fight with honour. Consider honour 'bonus points' that define you from the rest- make you stand out, gain you the chance at a Bloodname.

But when your Clan is on the line...well, it's more important than your own honour.

[CoffiNail]

Ghost, on 14 March 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

I could have sworn that the only way a Clan MechWarrior could get away with using Narc beacons is because they're mounted on the same 'Mech as the missiles that will be using it (a use made famous in one of Aidan Pryde's Bloodname trials).

Exactly. In Zell, the NARC beacon i believe is mostly tuned for that MEchs missile systems. Narcing something and tossing a dozen SSRM at it, pain.

GB_Krubarax, on 14 March 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Zellbrigen is not a RULE.
It is not per definition: RULES of engagement.

it is a custom.

Zellbrigen is broken even from stray-shots and ricochettes.
Zellbrigen is also not in use in Trial of Refusals.

Zellbrigen is only granted and followed if you concider your foes "worth the honor"
In other words, not when hunting bandits, mercenaries or perhaps a feuding clan.

Exactly it is not a LAW, it is a custom, and the use flucuates often during a Battle. If something is very much sought after, Zell may be less adhere'd to.

Clan honor before Cluster/Unit honor, before Personal honor. Zell is mostly situated around personal honor. If you can achive the means while still adhering to Zell it is considered a great personal honor.

Andar89, on 14 March 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

well Clan wolf has mechs with mounted Arrow IV system only (Naga) so it would mean that some Clan use dezgra tactics too in large Scale combats.

Naga's are more used for hardended defenses. Front Line units would not use them in honorable combat, or any area of effect. But second line commanders defending a Base installation may see it as a greater honor to use the Arrow IV than to loose the base. Overall though most Clans shunned the Naga until after Tukayyid. Even after other Clans started to adopt the Naga Arrow platform the front line warriors still shunned it.

[Hans Landa]

Nice then, thx for the answers. I had that question when I read in a thread about IS/Clan that some guys said that clanners should follow the zellbrigen in battle, but now I see it's not a law

Thx again

[Evgeny Bear]

CoffiNail, on 14 March 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

Exactly. In Zell, the NARC beacon i believe is mostly tuned for that MEchs missile systems. Narcing something and tossing a dozen SSRM at it, pain.


Exactly it is not a LAW, it is a custom, and the use flucuates often during a Battle. If something is very much sought after, Zell may be less adhere'd to.

Clan honor before Cluster/Unit honor, before Personal honor. Zell is mostly situated around personal honor. If you can achive the means while still adhering to Zell it is considered a great personal honor.



Naga's are more used for hardended defenses. Front Line units would not use them in honorable combat, or any area of effect. But second line commanders defending a Base installation may see it as a greater honor to use the Arrow IV than to loose the base. Overall though most Clans shunned the Naga until after Tukayyid. Even after other Clans started to adopt the Naga Arrow platform the front line warriors still shunned it.

I am a merc with very mysterious origins and a clean genetical heritage =P Im open for new Tactics adopted in the Sphere ^^

[Exilyth]

Sidney, on 14 March 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

The Ice Hellions consider a star of light 'mechs to work together as a point of elementals or protomechs do- believing five light 'mechs against a single assault 'mech is not a violation.

Now If I only had something small, fast and narc equipped as a spotter for thoose 4 Baboons ...

[KBone]

Hans Landa, on 14 March 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Nice then, thx for the answers. I had that question when I read in a thread about IS/Clan that some guys said that clanners should follow the zellbrigen in battle, but now I see it's not a law

Thx again

Correct, Zellbrigen is a custom followed only in combat with honorable foe's. In the Clans, mecenaries, bandits and Inner Sphere opponents who have proven themselves to be dishonorable do not deserve, and are not granted, Zell; therefore, group tactics (ganging up on a single opponent) Arrow IV, NARC coordinated attacks, air strikes, and artillery are all resources avialable to a Clan commender when attacking such foes.

[Gremlich Johns]

And Zellbrigen is only observed among those willing to observe the practice. If I offer and you accept, the custom is observed. If, howver, you refuse, then we play by your rules. Gloves off. For the Win.

[3Xtr3m3]

I am going to follow this topic.
My spidey-sense tells me it is going to get interesting.

[Shikari]

Quote

Nice then, thx for the answers. I had that question when I read in a thread about IS/Clan that some guys said that clanners should follow the zellbrigen in battle, but now I see it's not a law

Thx again - Hans Landa

But of course they’ve said that. They are freebirths. They hurry up to remind us clanners to use our honor traditions so their sorry a***s have a chance in fighting us.

[Petroff Northrup]

Zell is far from absolute and even has variou interpretations, CHH for example has no problems utilizing everything up to including harassing units and artillery wheras CJF will often view it as requiring strict adherence and will line their mechs up across a battlefield to prepare for battle.